Israel attack Liban

[KrooK]

Today Israel attacked Liban. They explain that they have to defend their country and they were attacked earlier.
In 1939 Germans were telling something really similar. And of course small, poor liban is great danger for Israel, so time on my comment;

SIEG SHALOM ISRAEL

You learnt much from III Reich.



To moderator, admin, et cetera....
Everyone can speak his mind.

[Vladimir]

I can't find Liban on a map. Can someone help me?

[Devastatin Dave]

I can't find Liban on a map. Can someone help me?

Its next to Syrianna and Iraqiopia.

This should get interesting.

[Csargo]

Very interesting

[Louis VI the Fat]

I might as well provide a link.

SIEG SHALOM ISRAEL

You learnt much from III Reich.

Israel has repeatedly crossed the line of what is acceptable behaviour for a democracy, even when considering it's special circumstances. But to compare it with the Third Reich is in poor taste.

Maybe Poland shouldn't rename Auschwitz-Birkenau into the 'former German concentration camp Auschwitz' just yet. Or hide it behind Supermarkets and fastfood outlets.

[Vladimir]

Ok, let's keep this dead horse on life support. You care to expand on how they have "crossed the line" considering their situation? It reminds me of a poll of Brits with the majority saying that Israel should make more concessions. You can't make concessions with someone who wants you dead. The negotiations with Arafat proved that. Half-dead doesn’t cut it.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Louis:

I agree that characterizing Israel as Nazi is a little harsh -- even if, like yourself, you disagree with their actions. I am not sure that I disagree with their actions in this instance.

What would be an appropriate response to a specific attack on the Israeli military resulting in 7 dead and 2 captured and held hostage?

Krook:

In 1939, Nazi operatives under Heydrich actually staged an attack on a German radio station and murdered several people (criminals brought in for the task?) to make it look to be the work of murderous Polish terrorists. This became one of the pretexts used to invade Poland. By contrast, all available evidence suggests that the Israelis were attacked by Hez Bollah [sic?] forces operating from Southern Lebanon. I don't think your parallel is accurate.

[Dâriûsh]

Uh-oh...

[Redleg]

Uh-oh...

I have to agree with you... Uh-oh......

[Louis VI the Fat]

What would be an appropriate response to a specific attack on the Israeli military resulting in 7 dead and 2 captured and held hostage?

Appropriate for Israel would be to finally accept that it needs to negotiate a workable peace with it's neighbours. Likewise, the neighbouring Arab states need to accept that Israel will stay.

Appropriate in this case in particular would be the use of proportional force.

For example, would you support Israel setting of eight bombs on trains in Beirut? Killing 180 people? I think not, we would both deem that an act of terrorism.
In the past two weeks, Israels' behaviour in the Gaza strip and Lebanon has been an effort to terrorize the civilian population. It is not called terrorism for no other reason than that old adage that states that 'terrorists is what the large army calls the small army'.

[Grey_Fox]

Liban is probably the Polish term for Lebanon, don't be too harsh on Krook, he means well.

I believe Hezbollah and elements of Hamas have been firing an average of 100 missiles at Israeli towns a month during the so-called 'peace'. Pity the media decided not say that, instead concentrating on the peaceful flower-picking Palestinians who only want to bring peace and love to the world and the evil Jews who want to kill them all.

[Devastatin Dave]

Liban is probably the Polish term for Lebanon, don't be too harsh on Krook, he means well.

I believe Hebollah and elements of Hamas have been firing an average of 100 missiles at Israeli towns a month during the so-called 'peace'. Pity the media decided not say that, instead concentrating on the peaceful flower-picking Palestinians who only want to bring peace and love to the world and the evil Jews who want to kill them all.

You're right, sorry Krook...
I completely agree on the rest of your post. The media is the greatest propoganda tool for the Palestinians. And some say the "Jews" run the media!!! LOL

[x-dANGEr]

@Grey Fox, Dave: How do you judge that ? You guys live here or what ?! A little note: Hamas can't supply 100 missiles a month + Hesbullah regular missile attacks (If any) are when Israeli army crosses the borders.

What would be an appropriate response to a specific attack on the Israeli military resulting in 7 dead and 2 captured and held hostage?

I said it 100 times, but no one seems to read.. Maybe release the prisoners? Those taken for no reason? (Most of them are, at least. And then, believe me, neither Hesbullah nor any other resistance foundation would do anything to Israel, as long as arms are kept "calm" from both ends).

[Vladimir]

Ok Louis, I already told you what happens when you try to negotiate with their "neighbors" as you put it. The result is that you go nowhere. You don't negotiate with someone bent on your destruction. Hamas' resolve to destroy Israel has been demonstrated in word and deed. Isn't that what the withdrawal was about?

And X, do you really want to give in to kidnapping? It's the same thing with (officially) negotiating with terrorists. If you give into extortion it will only get worse. And the terrorizing of civilians, bombing of open areas and such, come on; it's like blaring rock and roll music at bank robbers barricaded in a bank. Loud noises and scary lights is hardly terrorizing. 100 missiles a month isn't a lot if you're receiving a lot of help from outside sources. Besides, you can't justify launching rockets at civilian targets because of an incursion. If you want to fight, fight the incursion.

This thread isn't going to be locked is it?

[Grey_Fox]

@Grey Fox, Dave: How do you judge that ? You guys live here or what ?! A little note: Hamas can't supply 100 missiles a month + Hesbullah regular missile attacks (If any) are when Israeli army crosses the borders.

Israeli friends. Also from King Haggard over at totalwar.com and the Pond who is IDF.

Also the arms probably come from the same people supplying the Iraqi insurgents.

[Redleg]

A web search of news articles looking for the key words "Hebollah" "Hamas" "Israel" and "Missile" brings the following articles

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=50454

An interesting article - one that points out that Hamas is working on developing a electonic guided missle.

Since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip nine months ago, more than 300 rockets, mostly Qassams, have been fired at adjacent Jewish neighborhoods. More than 10 rockets were fired last week alone.

The Israeli army largely has attempted to halt Qassam rocket fire mostly utilizing artillery units and aerial strikes against suspected launching sites, but the operations have failed to stem the flow of Palestinian rocket attacks. Israel earlier this week carried out a raid deep inside Gaza, reportedly the first of its kind since withdrawing from the territory last August.

http://www.aijac.org.au/updates/May-....html#Article_

A times article that was linked to the above site.

Now, after Arafat's death and Hamas' rise to political power, chieftains aligned with the defeated Fatah faction, which Arafat once led, are scrambling to retain influence and control of their own bands of armed followers, even while taking on the fighters of Hamas.

"More and more, Gaza is ruled by warlords," said Eyad Sarraj, who heads a human rights group in the seaside territory where gunmen, in or out of uniform, can be seen on almost every street corner. "We are turning into a kind of Somalia. And this is Arafat's legacy."

[solypsist]

i'm going to give the spelling the benefit of the doubt and ask if Liban is a non-English spelling of Lebanon; the way Turin and Torino are the same city in Italy.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Does it matter?

To be perfectly honest the creation Isreal has to rank as one of the greatest humanitarin crimes of the last century. You cannot expect a people to just role over when you take their land, or their neighbors land.

Regardless the Arab nations are willing to negotiate these days and the use of military invasion or shelling is unwarrented, because it doesn't work and it causes too much collateral damage. You want to stop something like this? You get down and dirty with Black Ops.

The head of my departement at my University is proffesionally boycotting Isreal and anyone that does not dissacociate themselves with the regime.

If any other country was doing this there would be outrage and cries of "sanctions."

[UglyandHasty]

i'm going to give the spelling the benefit of the doubt and ask if Liban is a non-English spelling of Lebanon; the way Turin and Torino are the same city in Italy.

Liban is Lebanon in french

[Louis VI the Fat]

Le Liban is what Lebanon calls itself, in French.

Edit: Gah, beaten by a Québécois.

[Strike For The South]

People lets wake up. If Isreal wasnt Isreal theyd be royally shunned and be on the same plane as North Korea. If it wasnt for my countries blind support theyd already be there. I support a sperate Palistinan nation and all that good stuff. I also belive there is a HUGE jewish lobby in the USA however the reason we support the Isrealis is becuase they are thorns in the side of the arabs. The bottom line is this Isreal is a horrible country which uses America to forwared its intrests (not to mention steal our damned tech) I hope America stays out of this and Isreal has to fight on its own.

[Reenk Roink]

No qualms with the invasion in itself but...if Israel is like Israel, the civilian deaths will be through the roof...

Got huge qualms with that...

[Red Peasant]

People lets wake up. If Isreal wasnt Isreal theyd be royally shunned and be on the same plane as North Korea. If it wasnt for my countries blind support theyd already be there. I support a sperate Palistinan nation and all that good stuff. I also belive there is a HUGE jewish lobby in the USA however the reason we support the Isrealis is becuase they are thorns in the side of the arabs. The bottom line is this Isreal is a horrible country which uses America to forwared its intrests (not to mention steal our damned tech) I hope America stays out of this and Isreal has to fight on its own.

I'm sure Israel will do fine on its own.

If a Lebanese faction attacks another country then it can expect itself to be at war. I'm sure the US would react rather more harshly if, say, Canada or Mexico were lobbing missiles over the border on a regular basis, attacking their military and kidnapping their troops. The Yanks here would be demanding that those countries be turned to glass no doubt.

I don't know what the Israeli premier did wrong, he came into office on a ticket of making more concessions to the Palestinians and before he can do anything every terrorist in the mid-East is taking pot-shots. They smell weakness and they're obviously in no mood for negotiations.

[A.Saturnus]

Ok Louis, I already told you what happens when you try to negotiate with their "neighbors" as you put it. The result is that you go nowhere. You don't negotiate with someone bent on your destruction. Hamas' resolve to destroy Israel has been demonstrated in word and deed. Isn't that what the withdrawal was about?

Lebanon surely doesn't like Israel (why should they?) but Israel's destruction is not part of their official policy. Lebanon is currently not officially at war with Israel. A fact that is ignored by Israel and Hezbollah. That's not the only thing they have in common.

[Bar Kochba]

because just before he caim in to power israel gave away land and now every tom dick and harry (or muhammed) thinks they can get another piece of it

[Divinus Arma]

People lets wake up. If Isreal wasnt Isreal theyd be royally shunned and be on the same plane as North Korea. If it wasnt for my countries blind support theyd already be there. I support a sperate Palistinan nation and all that good stuff. I also belive there is a HUGE jewish lobby in the USA however the reason we support the Isrealis is becuase they are thorns in the side of the arabs. The bottom line is this Isreal is a horrible country which uses America to forwared its intrests (not to mention steal our damned tech) I hope America stays out of this and Isreal has to fight on its own.

The difference is the Israel is a Democratically elected government that extends freedom and prosperity to its people. It only acts to defend itself, not gain additional resources from the world body.

Alternatively, North Korea ia repressive Dictatorship that holds neighboring countries hostage in order to secure resources from international bodies.


I say to all,
I will not argue on the topic of whom was origainally entitled to what because it results in permanent violence. After all, Engalnd and France had claims on each others' territories and waged wars against each other for centuries because of those claims.

We must recognize the situation as it stands now, affirm Israel's right to exist as well as the right of a free Palestinian state. The Israeilis have been unable to attain coopeation from the Palestinian Authority despite pulling out of Gaza, dismantling settlements, and taking diplomatic steps towards a two-state solution. The election of Hamas represents the will of the Palestinian people to engage Israel with violence in order to meet its objectives.

Furthermore, if Israel acquiesces to the hostage takers, it will only encourage more hostage taking. And how is Israel to respond to rocket shelling from the Palestinian territories? Better question: How is Israel to respond to to rocket shelling fired from behgind civilian areas in Palestian territories?

[Strike For The South]

I'm sure Israel will do fine on its own.

If a Lebanese faction attacks another country then it can expect itself to be at war. I'm sure the US would react rather more harshly if, say, Canada or Mexico were lobbing missiles over the border on a regular basis, attacking their military and kidnapping their troops. The Yanks here would be demanding that those countries be turned to glass no doubt.

I don't know what the Israeli premier did wrong, he came into office on a ticket of making more concessions to the Palestinians and before he can do anything every terrorist in the mid-East is taking pot-shots. They smell weakness and they're obviously in no mood for negotiations.

Point taken. However you and I both know Isreal thinks its proverbial **** dont stink and blindly beleive there right (which no country is). My whole thing is Isreal has convonced a great portion of my country that there little strip of land and there cuase there issuses were more important than anyone elses. The news here exalts the Isrealises and shows the Palestinains as dogs. What the Palistenians is doing is wrong but the Isrealis and to some extent my country has put them in that positon.

[Ice]

What the Palistenians is doing is wrong but the Isrealis and to some extent my country has put them in that positon.

Please Clarify that.

[Bar Kochba]

and maybe the title of this thread should be hizbullah attack kidnap 2 israeli soldiers kill 8 more and then israel reitaliates which country would just let there captured soldiers not be rescued?

[Keba]

and maybe the title of this thread should be hizbullah attack kidnap 2 israeli soldiers kill 8 more and then israel reitaliates which country would just let there captured soldiers not be rescued?

Very few countries would engage in rescue operations with armor columns and thousands of soldiers. Both you, me, and everyone on these fora knows that the Mossad could solve this in under an hour, without any Israeli casualties (and only a few terrorist ones, but those people are guilty).

This sort of heavy-handed approach is not befitting a democratic country. I do not say that they should have shut up and negotiated ... but launching a full-scale invasion over two soldiers is idiotic.

*Sigh* If it weren't for the US, Israel would be at least a bit more courteous. How do you expect the Arabic countries to react when your first move is to bash them, then, if that doesn't work, call in the world's only superpower to come to it's aid.

Didn't they already learn that responding to terrorists with tank divisions and army operations is counterproductive? All it does is give more men and materiel to the terrorists, which the operations are meant to curb.