Lebanon: Rules of Engagement

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What do you think is the appropriate level of severity that should stand as the "rules of engagement" under which the IDF should prosecute the current conflict in Lebanon? [poll attached soon]

1. Israel should eradicate all opposition South of a line running from Saida to Damascus, using any conventional means and using tactical nuclear weapons if needed to remove Hiz’bollah strong points. All current residents should be forcibly deported North of this line so as to create a completely depopulated security zone.

2. Israel should eradicate all opposition South of a line running from Saida to Damascus, using any conventional means. All current residents should be forcibly deported North of this line so as to create a completely depopulated security zone.

3. Israel should defeat or force the evacuation of any Hiz’bollah forces South of a line running from Saida to Damascus, using any conventional means. Israel should establish a security zone in the conquered region, allowing for limited Lebanese sovereignty but leaving the area under IDF control.

4. Israel should defeat or force the evacuation of any Hiz’bollah forces South of a line running from Saida to Damascus, but should continue making efforts to warn off the Lebanese population and minimize non-combatant casualties in the current fashion.

5. Israel should defeat or force the evacuation of any Hiz’bollah forces South of a line running from Saida to Damascus, but should continue making efforts to warn off the Lebanese population and minimize non-combatant casualties. These efforts should be stepped up, and a greater degree of self-restraint in bombardment imposed.

6. Israel should defeat or force the evacuation of any Hiz’bollah forces South of a line running from Saida to Damascus, but should step up efforts to warn off the Lebanese population and minimize non-combatant casualties. Any target that cannot be conclusively identified as Hiz’bollah should not be attacked.

7. Israel should withdraw from Lebanese territory and restrict itself to counter-bombardments in direct response to a Hiz’bollah strike. To prevent Lebanese casualties, any target that cannot be conclusively identified as Hiz’bollah should not be attacked.

8. Israel should immediately withdraw any forces from Lebanon and avoid any bombardment of Lebanese territory. In future it should restrict military action to direct defense of its Northern border from Hiz’bollah incursion. No targets are to be engaged unless positively identified as an active enemy.

9. None of the above reflect my view of the situation – as usual – and I have a better view of the situation – as usual [attach comments].

10. Gah. I might be smart enough to have a considered opinion on the issue, but prefer to answer “gah” to fulfill some smug need to feel better – at least in my own eyes – than others who actually answer the poll.

[Don Corleone]

I think option 7 is the closest to where my views lie. Israel isn't doing itself any favors by responding too harshly. By the same token, laying there and allowing Hezbollah to shell it and kidnap it's citizens is going to invite even more attacks. You'd see Jewish teenagers being beheaded on a videotape, which I imagine would have been about 4-6 weeks off had Israel done nothing.

At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself why did Hezbollah go to such great lengths to provoke this response. Well,

1) Iran doesn't want anybody giving any business about their nuclear weapons program. Between this and Russia & China's cover at the security council, mission accomplished.

2) Syria wanted to get back into Lebanon every since April 26, 2005 when they officially left (though I doubt all their intelligence & special-ops folks did). Again, mission accomplished.

Bush really screwed the pooch on this one. Iran is rather untouchable, as nobody would have been happy with us messing with the world's oil supply. Syria, which has no oil, is another matter entirely. We should have bombed Damascus weeks ago, and continued to every day until they called Hezbollah off.

[Geoffrey S]

I'm tempted by six. I don't like it much, but Israel should inflict more damage directly on Hezbollah before pulling out if it wants to prevent a very dangerous situation; namely, that Hezbollah gains more credit than either the Israelis or the Lebanese government in the eyes of the people of Lebanon and the further world.

I'm against extensive airstrikes and believe Hezbollah can only truly be damaged, both militarily and politically, by ground strikes. These airstrikes are unacceptable in terms of civilian casualties and in terms of the propaganda benefit to Hezbollah. Israel must face the casualties such ground strikes would entail, because the current methods will lose them much support, quickly.

More effort should be made to involve the Lebanese government in combatting Hezbollah, possibly with the help of the UN. Again, these airstrikes do Israel no favours in pursuing such a goal. In the end a stable, strong democratic Lebanese government is beneficial to Israel, the people of Lebanon, and long-term to the Middle East.

Absolutely every effort must be made to protect civilians. They are the future of Lebanon, and could be a future friendly neighbour or an enemy.

[Tribesman]

What do you think is the appropriate level of severity that should stand as the "rules of engagement" under which the IDF should prosecute the current conflict in Lebanon?
They should stick to their own 11 point doctrine , especially points 1&2 .
Which pretty much corresponds with your option #7

[Duke John]

9. Israel should not bombard the country. They are looking for small groups hiding in civilian houses. They should use their ground forces more directly as opposed to pressing buttons from a distance. If they want to clear an entire area, then they should set up refugee camps for the civilians. They should put more effort into showing that they are after the ones who are firing rockets and that civilians can return to their normal life once that threat has been removed. Of course everything with as much cooperation with the Lebonese government as possible.

[Don Corleone]

Every time Israel crosses the Lebanese border, they are feeding the propaganda machine throughout the Middle East. The moment they set one foot over the border, they become aggressors and invaders. Aside from which, the first people OUT of the settlement when the Israelis come across the border would be the local Hezbollah. All that would be left would be innocent civilians. What earthly purpose can incursions serve other than making the IDF look as though it wants to steal Lebanese territory?

[Duke John]

All that would be left would be innocent civilians.

Isn't that what Israel desires? A border inhabited by innocent civilians?

[Banquo's Ghost]

I tend to agree with Tribesman and Don. (How many times do you see that sentence? )

Except that I would go a little further, and have them restrict activities to defence - whilst helping build up the Lebanese army and security forces, on the basis of a signed peace treaty. Israeli intelligence activities along with Lebanese security forces should be able to root out most military Hezbollah activity before it got to the rocketing stage.

Make Lebanon into an ally, rather than a victim. It was happening, step-by-step. Sadly, now that's another generation of hatred and mistrust created amongst the dust and bodies.

Oh and Israel should pay entirely out of its own pocket for the damage and reconstruction. Maybe by rebuilding Lebanon they might convince some of the Lebanese that they had a future as allies.

[Don Corleone]

Isn't that what Israel desires? A border inhabited by innocent civilians?

But it will only remain that way as long as the IDF are in southern Lebanon (and being taken to task by the rest of the world). The moment they leave, Hezbollah will come back and start another round of rocket attacks & kidnapping. It would be like the police announcing 24 hours in advance that they intend to raid a crack den. Who do you think they're going to find there? What do you think will happen once the police leave again?

[Idaho]

The poll and thread options don't match...

Er.. I think the score so far is:

Israel soldiers dead 33
Israel civillians dead 12
Israel injured 40

Hezbollah dead 38
Lebanon soldiers dead 12
Lebanese civillians dead 515
Lebanese injured 1600

I think the rules should be based around a certain degree of parity in the casuality figures.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Actually, I think Israel would be better served by going for the source of the problem.

Continue building up forces in and around the Israeli-Lebanese border.

Continue attacks to degrade Hiz/bollah capabilities in the region.

Once forces are amassed, turn right 45 degrees and attack Syria. Once Assad's regime and army are kicked apart, withdraw back to Southern Lebanon and a wider defense zone near the Golan.

Let Iran try to support Hiz'bollah without the help of Syria (which will be in a civil war and too busy to bother).

[Tribesman]

Once forces are amassed, turn right 45 degrees and attack Syria. Once Assad's regime and army are kicked apart, withdraw back to Southern Lebanon and a wider defense zone near the Golan.

Let Iran try to support Hiz'bollah without the help of Syria (which will be in a civil war and too busy to bother).
Thank god you ain't in charge over there Seamus

[Idaho]

Actually, I think Israel would be better served by going for the source of the problem.

Continue building up forces in and around the Israeli-Lebanese border.

Continue attacks to degrade Hiz/bollah capabilities in the region.

Once forces are amassed, turn right 45 degrees and attack Syria. Once Assad's regime and army are kicked apart, withdraw back to Southern Lebanon and a wider defense zone near the Golan.

Let Iran try to support Hiz'bollah without the help of Syria (which will be in a civil war and too busy to bother).

People like you run the US. God help us all...

[Shaun]

Actually, I think Israel would be better served by going for the source of the problem.

Continue building up forces in and around the Israeli-Lebanese border.

Continue attacks to degrade Hiz/bollah capabilities in the region.

Once forces are amassed, turn right 45 degrees and attack Syria. Once Assad's regime and army are kicked apart, withdraw back to Southern Lebanon and a wider defense zone near the Golan.

Let Iran try to support Hiz'bollah without the help of Syria (which will be in a civil war and too busy to bother).

You are assuming that all the Muslims in the ME are all out supporting each other. This is wrong.


Oh, and your masterplan missed out one thing, bomb all UN outposts on the way, and remember to aim for the children.