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  1. #1
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

    Well decide for yourelves.


    These questions and others are beginning to mount as the discrepancies in Hezbollah’s versions of events start to fall apart:

    On the morning of July 30, according to the IDF, the air force came in three waves. In the first, between midnight and one in the morning, there was a strike at or near the building that eventually collapsed. There was a second strike at other targets far from the collapse building several hours later, and a third strike at around 7:30 in the morning. There too the nearest hit was some 460 meters away, according to the IDF. But first reports of a building collapse came only around 8 am.
    Thus there was an unexplained 7 to 8 hour gap between the time of the helicopter strike and the building collapse. Brigadier General Amir Eshel, Head of the Air Force Headquarters, in a press briefing, told journalists that "the attack on the structure in the Qana village took place between midnight and one in the morning. The gap between the timing of the collapse of the building and the time of the strike on it is unclear."

    Gen. Eshel appeared genuinely mystified by the gap in time. He "I’m saying this very carefully, because at this time I don’t have a clue as to what the explanation could be for this gap," he added.

    The army’s only explanation was that somehow there was unexploded Hezbollah ordnance in the building that only detonated much later.
    "It could be that inside the building, things that could eventually cause an explosion were being housed, things that we could not blow up in the attack, and maybe remained there, Brigadier General Eshel said.

    Eshel reported that as recently as two days ago, military intelligence reported the building area had been used by the terrorists for storage or firing of weapons. It was a bad place to cram dozens of women and children.

    There are other mysteries. The roof of the building was intact. Journalist Ben Wedeman of CNN noted that there was a larger crater next to the building, but observed that the building appeared not to have collapsed as a result of the Israeli strike.

    Why would the civilians who had supposedly taken shelter in the basement of the building not leave after the post-midnight attack? They just went back to sleep and had the bad luck to wait for the building to collapse in the morning?

    What we do know is that sometime after dawn a call went hour to journalists and rescue workers to come to the scene. And come they did.

    While Hezbollah and its apologists have been claiming that civilians could not freely flee the scene due to Israeli destruction of bridges and roads, the journalists and rescue teams from nearby Tyre had no problem getting there.

    Lebanese rescue teams did not start evacuating the building until the morning and only after the camera crews came. The absence of a real rescue effort was explained by saying that equipment was lacking. There were no scenes of live or injured people being extracted.

    There was little blood, CNN’s Wedeman noted: all the victims, he concluded, appeared to have died while as they were sleeping — sleeping, apparently, through thunderous Israeli air attacks. Rescue workers equipped with cameras were removing the bodies from the same opening in the collapsed structure. Journalists were not allowed near the collapsed building.

    Rescue workers filmed as they went carried the victims on the stretchers, occasionally flipping up the blankets so that cameras could show the faces and bodies of the dead.

    But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. Their limbs appeared to have stiffened, from rigor mortis. Neither were effects that would have resulted from an Israeli attack hours before. These were bodies that looked like they had been dead for days.

    Viewers can judge for themselves. But the accumulating evidence suggests another explanation for what happened at Kana. The scenario would be a setup in which the time between the initial Israeli bombing near the building and morning reports of its collapse would have been used to "plant" bodies killed in previous fighting — reports in previous days indicated that nearby Tyre was used as a temporary morgue — place them in the basement, and then engineer a "controlled demolition" to fake another Israeli attack.

    The well-documented use by Palestinians of this kind of faked footage — from the alleged shooting of Mohammed Dura in Gaza, scenes from Jenin of "dead" victims falling off gurneys and then climbing back on — have merited the creation of a new film genre called "Palliwood."

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  2. #2
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

    Funny... I always question sources - when the news says women and children are being targeted by a national army, I have my doubts.

    But this seems a bit conspiracy theory-ish, so again, I have my doubts - too good to be true for some parties, nay?

    Plus - I have a feeling this isn't going to help the IDF's rep either - those that are opposed to what's going on aren't going to be swayed, rather they will see this as a cynical attempt to sway public emotion. Those that are in favour of IDF actions will feel justified by this. Anyone in the middle, will still pretty much stay in the middle - with a few shifting to both camps, pretty much equally. Nothing will change.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Duke John's Avatar
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    Default Re: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

    But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. Their limbs appeared to have stiffened, from rigor mortis. Neither were effects that would have resulted from an Israeli attack hours before. These were bodies that looked like they had been dead for days.
    The body starts to stiffen after 2 to 6 hours. I cannot really seem to find lapse of time between collapse and rescue attempts, but in your quote it is stated that the rescue was started very late, so there seems to be plenty of time for rigor mortis to start affecting the body.
    About the faces being ashen gray. When a concrete building collapses it produces a very fine grey dust that will cover everything, which is clearly noticeable on the photos.

    From the same site:
    Quote Originally Posted by From an AP report
    Israel suspended air attacks on south Lebanon for 48 hours starting early Monday in the face of widespread outrage over an airstrike on a house that killed 56 Lebanese, almost all of them women and children.
    [...]
    Red Cross officials said 56 were killed and police said 34 children and 12 adult women were among the dead.
    34 children. 12 adult women. Not a single adult male officially listed among them. How strangely asexual these "civilian" families seem to be.
    56-34-12=10 other dead bodies. This could mean 10 adult males, which were not noted by AP as women and children casualities are more dramatic. And that makes the make up of the dead bodies suddenly a whole lot less asexual. Either I am missing a number, or that "Confederate Yankee" likes to push certain numbers forward.


    Overall this "proof" got plenty of holes on its own.
    Last edited by Duke John; 08-01-2006 at 08:35.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

    Overall this "proof" got plenty of holes on its own.
    Yep they is getting desperate , its almost like saying look theres 6 holes , we fired 6 shells but only the 5 unembarrasing holes are ours , the kids were killed by someone else .

    I wonder if the good general who cannot explain the "mystery" understands the effect that a number of 1000lb bombs will have on a building less that 500 meters away that is already badly damaged and has its foundations seriously undermined .
    But hey who needs to explain anything when you work on the false assumption that there are no civilians .

  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member English assassin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

    Pass the tinfoil hats batman.

    Obviously the "gap" between the attack and the report of the building collpase was caused by hezbollah needing to round up and kill 56 people to plant in the building. You might not think that takes 8 hours but bear in mind they had to wait for orders from Ming the Merciless's mothership in orbit round Jupiter.

    (BTW just LOVE the way that the word "report" immediately disappears from the story, so it seems as if there was a gap between the bombing and the collapse)

    I refer to the Beruit acid test for who is right in the middle east: in any picture involving a kid and a tank, he is on the side of the kid. Likewise F16s.
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    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?




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    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

    Wars are as much about information as they are about killing. Whitewashing bad news and exaggerating not-so-bad news is considered justified by the side doing it.


    I would not put it past Hezbollah to use these sorts of tactics. They aren't exactly goning to make it easy for neutral parties to do autopsies now are they?

    I am, however, trying to stay nuetral here. I want more facts verifying the timing of the strike and the collapse, not just some info gleaned from an exclusive interview or canned press conference.

    It's also possible they were trapped underneath before or after the
    inital strike and suffocated or something, and the collapse had nothing to do with their deaths.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    I refer to the Beruit acid test for who is right in the middle east: in any picture involving a kid and a tank, he is on the side of the kid.
    That acid test doesn't hold water when the enemy are known for using kids as intelligent, guided bombs.

    Just because a people lack the heavy equipment (i.e. tanks, and F-16s) to militarily advance their cause does not automatically mean that their cause is just.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

    The body starts to stiffen after 2 to 6 hours. I cannot really seem to find lapse of time between collapse and rescue attempts, but in your quote it is stated that the rescue was started very late, so there seems to be plenty of time for rigor mortis to start affecting the body.
    If they died in the collapse in the morning, and the press (kept properly away from the inside) and 'rescuers' came shortly thereafter, the bodies wouldn't be stiff.

    Anyone remember 'Pallywood'? The palestinians pulled this kind of stunt (on a smaller scale, but much more often), and I would not be surprised at all if Hezbollah did this.

    I provided information that there was no hezbollah activity around the base at all during the day long incidents that ended in the deaths , so no tactical neccesity whatsoever .
    Sorry, but when was the last time you went to the UN posts in Lebanon? Oh, wait, you didn't? You don't say. Really, tribesy.

    That acid test doesn't hold water when the enemy are known for using kids as intelligent, guided bombs.

    Just because a people lack the heavy equipment (i.e. tanks, and F-16s) to militarily advance their cause does not automatically mean that their cause is just.
    Exactly. If you saw a photo of a German kid looking at an advancing Sherman, does that make the kid's side right?
    Robert Fisk is widely regarded as a leading expert in the Middle East - most informed politicians on all sides read his reports for the real lowdown. Feel free to check his credentials.
    Fisk? 'The real lowdown'? Please.

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  10. #10
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

    I'm gonna pull a Tribesman and tell you that Human Rights Watch cut the number of dead down to about half. No link for you guys, I'm tired.


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  11. #11

    Default Re: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

    Quote Originally Posted by http://blog.washingtonpost.com/worldopinionroundup/2006/08/the_qana_conspiracy_theory.html
    Confronted with photographs of dead children, Israeli Insider's Korvet insisted they must be something else: "The victims were non-residents who chose to shelter in the building that night," he writes. "They were 'too poor' to leave the down, one resident told CNN's [Jon] Wedeman. Who were these people?"

    That question has been definitively answered in the mainstream press. Almost all of the victims belonged to two extended families, the Hashems and the Shalhoubs, who lived in the area, according to the independent accounts of The Washington Post's Anthony Shadid and the Daily Star's Nicholas Blanford.
    According to Jefferson Morley of http://blog.washingtonpost.com/world...cy_theory.html

    most or all of the victims were members of the Shalhoub and Hashem families as independently confirmed in these articles:

    (Qana relives 1996 massacre as air strike kills at least 60 civilians by Nicholas Blanford)
    http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....ticle_id=74379

    (A Refuge That Became A Place of Death by Anthony Shadid)
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...073000594.html

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