Org Mobile Site
Thread: Were the Quana Bodies Staged?
Well decide for yourelves.
LINK
Originally Posted by :
These questions and others are beginning to mount as the discrepancies in Hezbollah’s versions of events start to fall apart:
On the morning of July 30, according to the IDF, the air force came in three waves. In the first, between midnight and one in the morning, there was a strike at or near the building that eventually collapsed. There was a second strike at other targets far from the collapse building several hours later, and a third strike at around 7:30 in the morning. There too the nearest hit was some 460 meters away, according to the IDF. But first reports of a building collapse came only around 8 am.
Thus there was an unexplained 7 to 8 hour gap between the time of the helicopter strike and the building collapse. Brigadier General Amir Eshel, Head of the Air Force Headquarters, in a press briefing, told journalists that "the attack on the structure in the Qana village took place between midnight and one in the morning. The gap between the timing of the collapse of the building and the time of the strike on it is unclear."
Gen. Eshel appeared genuinely mystified by the gap in time. He "I’m saying this very carefully, because at this time I don’t have a clue as to what the explanation could be for this gap," he added.
The army’s only explanation was that somehow there was unexploded Hezbollah ordnance in the building that only detonated much later.
"It could be that inside the building, things that could eventually cause an explosion were being housed, things that we could not blow up in the attack, and maybe remained there, Brigadier General Eshel said.
Eshel reported that as recently as two days ago, military intelligence reported the building area had been used by the terrorists for storage or firing of weapons. It was a bad place to cram dozens of women and children.
There are other mysteries. The roof of the building was intact. Journalist Ben Wedeman of CNN noted that there was a larger crater next to the building, but observed that the building appeared not to have collapsed as a result of the Israeli strike.
Why would the civilians who had supposedly taken shelter in the basement of the building not leave after the post-midnight attack? They just went back to sleep and had the bad luck to wait for the building to collapse in the morning?
What we do know is that sometime after dawn a call went hour to journalists and rescue workers to come to the scene. And come they did.
While Hezbollah and its apologists have been claiming that civilians could not freely flee the scene due to Israeli destruction of bridges and roads, the journalists and rescue teams from nearby Tyre had no problem getting there.
Lebanese rescue teams did not start evacuating the building until the morning and only after the camera crews came. The absence of a real rescue effort was explained by saying that equipment was lacking. There were no scenes of live or injured people being extracted.
There was little blood, CNN’s Wedeman noted: all the victims, he concluded, appeared to have died while as they were sleeping — sleeping, apparently, through thunderous Israeli air attacks. Rescue workers equipped with cameras were removing the bodies from the same opening in the collapsed structure. Journalists were not allowed near the collapsed building.
Rescue workers filmed as they went carried the victims on the stretchers, occasionally flipping up the blankets so that cameras could show the faces and bodies of the dead.
But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. Their limbs appeared to have stiffened, from rigor mortis. Neither were effects that would have resulted from an Israeli attack hours before. These were bodies that looked like they had been dead for days.
Viewers can judge for themselves. But the accumulating evidence suggests another explanation for what happened at Kana. The scenario would be a setup in which the time between the initial Israeli bombing near the building and morning reports of its collapse would have been used to "plant" bodies killed in previous fighting — reports in previous days indicated that nearby Tyre was used as a temporary morgue — place them in the basement, and then engineer a "controlled demolition" to fake another Israeli attack.
The well-documented use by Palestinians of this kind of faked footage — from the alleged shooting of Mohammed Dura in Gaza, scenes from Jenin of "dead" victims falling off gurneys and then climbing back on — have merited the creation of a new film genre called "Palliwood."
These questions and others are beginning to mount as the discrepancies in Hezbollah’s versions of events start to fall apart:
On the morning of July 30, according to the IDF, the air force came in three waves. In the first, between midnight and one in the morning, there was a strike at or near the building that eventually collapsed. There was a second strike at other targets far from the collapse building several hours later, and a third strike at around 7:30 in the morning. There too the nearest hit was some 460 meters away, according to the IDF. But first reports of a building collapse came only around 8 am.
Thus there was an unexplained 7 to 8 hour gap between the time of the helicopter strike and the building collapse. Brigadier General Amir Eshel, Head of the Air Force Headquarters, in a press briefing, told journalists that "the attack on the structure in the Qana village took place between midnight and one in the morning. The gap between the timing of the collapse of the building and the time of the strike on it is unclear."
Gen. Eshel appeared genuinely mystified by the gap in time. He "I’m saying this very carefully, because at this time I don’t have a clue as to what the explanation could be for this gap," he added.
The army’s only explanation was that somehow there was unexploded Hezbollah ordnance in the building that only detonated much later.
"It could be that inside the building, things that could eventually cause an explosion were being housed, things that we could not blow up in the attack, and maybe remained there, Brigadier General Eshel said.
Eshel reported that as recently as two days ago, military intelligence reported the building area had been used by the terrorists for storage or firing of weapons. It was a bad place to cram dozens of women and children.
There are other mysteries. The roof of the building was intact. Journalist Ben Wedeman of CNN noted that there was a larger crater next to the building, but observed that the building appeared not to have collapsed as a result of the Israeli strike.
Why would the civilians who had supposedly taken shelter in the basement of the building not leave after the post-midnight attack? They just went back to sleep and had the bad luck to wait for the building to collapse in the morning?
What we do know is that sometime after dawn a call went hour to journalists and rescue workers to come to the scene. And come they did.
While Hezbollah and its apologists have been claiming that civilians could not freely flee the scene due to Israeli destruction of bridges and roads, the journalists and rescue teams from nearby Tyre had no problem getting there.
Lebanese rescue teams did not start evacuating the building until the morning and only after the camera crews came. The absence of a real rescue effort was explained by saying that equipment was lacking. There were no scenes of live or injured people being extracted.
There was little blood, CNN’s Wedeman noted: all the victims, he concluded, appeared to have died while as they were sleeping — sleeping, apparently, through thunderous Israeli air attacks. Rescue workers equipped with cameras were removing the bodies from the same opening in the collapsed structure. Journalists were not allowed near the collapsed building.
Rescue workers filmed as they went carried the victims on the stretchers, occasionally flipping up the blankets so that cameras could show the faces and bodies of the dead.
But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. Their limbs appeared to have stiffened, from rigor mortis. Neither were effects that would have resulted from an Israeli attack hours before. These were bodies that looked like they had been dead for days.
Viewers can judge for themselves. But the accumulating evidence suggests another explanation for what happened at Kana. The scenario would be a setup in which the time between the initial Israeli bombing near the building and morning reports of its collapse would have been used to "plant" bodies killed in previous fighting — reports in previous days indicated that nearby Tyre was used as a temporary morgue — place them in the basement, and then engineer a "controlled demolition" to fake another Israeli attack.
The well-documented use by Palestinians of this kind of faked footage — from the alleged shooting of Mohammed Dura in Gaza, scenes from Jenin of "dead" victims falling off gurneys and then climbing back on — have merited the creation of a new film genre called "Palliwood."
LINK
Funny... I always question sources - when the news says women and children are being targeted by a national army, I have my doubts.
But this seems a bit conspiracy theory-ish, so again, I have my doubts - too good to be true for some parties, nay?
Plus - I have a feeling this isn't going to help the IDF's rep either - those that are opposed to what's going on aren't going to be swayed, rather they will see this as a cynical attempt to sway public emotion. Those that are in favour of IDF actions will feel justified by this. Anyone in the middle, will still pretty much stay in the middle - with a few shifting to both camps, pretty much equally. Nothing will change.
But this seems a bit conspiracy theory-ish, so again, I have my doubts - too good to be true for some parties, nay?
Plus - I have a feeling this isn't going to help the IDF's rep either - those that are opposed to what's going on aren't going to be swayed, rather they will see this as a cynical attempt to sway public emotion. Those that are in favour of IDF actions will feel justified by this. Anyone in the middle, will still pretty much stay in the middle - with a few shifting to both camps, pretty much equally. Nothing will change.
Originally Posted by :
But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. Their limbs appeared to have stiffened, from rigor mortis. Neither were effects that would have resulted from an Israeli attack hours before. These were bodies that looked like they had been dead for days.
The body starts to stiffen after 2 to 6 hours. I cannot really seem to find lapse of time between collapse and rescue attempts, but in your quote it is stated that the rescue was started very late, so there seems to be plenty of time for rigor mortis to start affecting the body.But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. Their limbs appeared to have stiffened, from rigor mortis. Neither were effects that would have resulted from an Israeli attack hours before. These were bodies that looked like they had been dead for days.
About the faces being ashen gray. When a concrete building collapses it produces a very fine grey dust that will cover everything, which is clearly noticeable on the photos.
From the same site:
Originally Posted by :
56-34-12=10 other dead bodies. This could mean 10 adult males, which were not noted by AP as women and children casualities are more dramatic. And that makes the make up of the dead bodies suddenly a whole lot less asexual. Either I am missing a number, or that "Confederate Yankee" likes to push certain numbers forward.Originally Posted by From an AP report:
Israel suspended air attacks on south Lebanon for 48 hours starting early Monday in the face of widespread outrage over an airstrike on a house that killed 56 Lebanese, almost all of them women and children.
[...]
Red Cross officials said 56 were killed and police said 34 children and 12 adult women were among the dead.
34 children. 12 adult women. Not a single adult male officially listed among them. How strangely asexual these "civilian" families seem to be.Israel suspended air attacks on south Lebanon for 48 hours starting early Monday in the face of widespread outrage over an airstrike on a house that killed 56 Lebanese, almost all of them women and children.
[...]
Red Cross officials said 56 were killed and police said 34 children and 12 adult women were among the dead.
Overall this "proof" got plenty of holes on its own.
Overall this "proof" got plenty of holes on its own.
Yep they is getting desperate , its almost like saying look theres 6 holes , we fired 6 shells but only the 5 unembarrasing holes are ours , the kids were killed by someone else .
I wonder if the good general who cannot explain the "mystery" understands the effect that a number of 1000lb bombs will have on a building less that 500 meters away that is already badly damaged and has its foundations seriously undermined .
But hey who needs to explain anything when you work on the false assumption that there are no civilians .
Yep they is getting desperate , its almost like saying look theres 6 holes , we fired 6 shells but only the 5 unembarrasing holes are ours , the kids were killed by someone else .
I wonder if the good general who cannot explain the "mystery" understands the effect that a number of 1000lb bombs will have on a building less that 500 meters away that is already badly damaged and has its foundations seriously undermined .
But hey who needs to explain anything when you work on the false assumption that there are no civilians .
Pass the tinfoil hats batman.
Obviously the "gap" between the attack and the report of the building collpase was caused by hezbollah needing to round up and kill 56 people to plant in the building. You might not think that takes 8 hours but bear in mind they had to wait for orders from Ming the Merciless's mothership in orbit round Jupiter.
(BTW just LOVE the way that the word "report" immediately disappears from the story, so it seems as if there was a gap between the bombing and the collapse)
I refer to the Beruit acid test for who is right in the middle east: in any picture involving a kid and a tank, he is on the side of the kid. Likewise F16s.
Obviously the "gap" between the attack and the report of the building collpase was caused by hezbollah needing to round up and kill 56 people to plant in the building. You might not think that takes 8 hours but bear in mind they had to wait for orders from Ming the Merciless's mothership in orbit round Jupiter.
(BTW just LOVE the way that the word "report" immediately disappears from the story, so it seems as if there was a gap between the bombing and the collapse)
I refer to the Beruit acid test for who is right in the middle east: in any picture involving a kid and a tank, he is on the side of the kid. Likewise F16s.
Wars are as much about information as they are about killing. Whitewashing bad news and exaggerating not-so-bad news is considered justified by the side doing it.
I would not put it past Hezbollah to use these sorts of tactics. They aren't exactly goning to make it easy for neutral parties to do autopsies now are they?
I am, however, trying to stay nuetral here. I want more facts verifying the timing of the strike and the collapse, not just some info gleaned from an exclusive interview or canned press conference.
It's also possible they were trapped underneath before or after the
inital strike and suffocated or something, and the collapse had nothing to do with their deaths.
I would not put it past Hezbollah to use these sorts of tactics. They aren't exactly goning to make it easy for neutral parties to do autopsies now are they?
I am, however, trying to stay nuetral here. I want more facts verifying the timing of the strike and the collapse, not just some info gleaned from an exclusive interview or canned press conference.
It's also possible they were trapped underneath before or after the
inital strike and suffocated or something, and the collapse had nothing to do with their deaths.
Well decide for yourelves.
ooooops , they have a new explanation , one of the pieces of ordanace fired in the initial strike at the building failed to explode on impact . So there was unexploded ordanace there , it was live and it was Isreali .
Originally Posted by :
As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the Sunday air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.
It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence there of Hezbollah men at the time.
Advertisement
The Israeli Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.
The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were practiced in the past. But there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.
Furthermore...The army’s only explanation was that somehow there was unexploded Hezbollah ordnance in the building that only detonated much later.As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the Sunday air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.
It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence there of Hezbollah men at the time.
Advertisement
The Israeli Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.
The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were practiced in the past. But there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.
ooooops , they have a new explanation , one of the pieces of ordanace fired in the initial strike at the building failed to explode on impact . So there was unexploded ordanace there , it was live and it was Isreali .
I wouldn't put it past Hezbollah to do this very thing. The Herald Sun is publishing photos of Hezbollah dressed in civilian clothes setting up a rocket staging post in a residential neighborhood, right outside an appartment building. I don't think anybody seriously doubts that Hezbollah is using civilian cover as human shields.
But this specific claim, in light of the events that transpired, it should have more evidence then "maybe ....". If they don't have a clear theory of exactly what happened with some proof, they should just keep it to themselves until they do. Right now, they just look desparate.
Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?
But this specific claim, in light of the events that transpired, it should have more evidence then "maybe ....". If they don't have a clear theory of exactly what happened with some proof, they should just keep it to themselves until they do. Right now, they just look desparate.
Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?
You are an idiot sir for quoting a white supremacist site
The Herald Sun is a white supremacist site? You know, I get really, really F-ING tired of this... any site that's right of the Guardian is by definition a white-sumpremacist right-wing rag. The Wall Street Journal? White-supremacist, right-wing Trash. The Manchester Union Leader? White-supremacist, right-wing Trash. Forget all the journalism awards. If it doesn't call for Bush's head on a stick, it's right-wing, white-supremacist trash.
If you wanted to say that you don't think it's of the same quality as say the Guardian, that'd be one thing. But dismissing everything that disagrees with your world view out of hand, just because it disagrees with your world view, is lazy. Show me one place, off the Socialist Worker that is, that can cite evidence that the Herald Sun is a white-supremacist site. Otherwise, keep your baseless accusations to yourself.
If you wanted to say that you don't think it's of the same quality as say the Guardian, that'd be one thing. But dismissing everything that disagrees with your world view out of hand, just because it disagrees with your world view, is lazy. Show me one place, off the Socialist Worker that is, that can cite evidence that the Herald Sun is a white-supremacist site. Otherwise, keep your baseless accusations to yourself.
Nah, I think he is referring to the website Gawain got his quote from: http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/
The original source of the quotation. Israeli website - obviously biased, therefore we should pay no attention to it. Or should we?
Just because something is biased, doesn't mean there isn't a grain of truth in it. Then again, it could still be false. Either way, it shouldn't be ignored, but used in collusion with other sources.
Just because something is biased, doesn't mean there isn't a grain of truth in it. Then again, it could still be false. Either way, it shouldn't be ignored, but used in collusion with other sources.
Originally Posted by Don Corleone:
The Herald Sun is a white supremacist site? You know, I get really, really F-ING tired of this... any site that's right of the Guardian is by definition a white-sumpremacist right-wing rag. The Wall Street Journal? White-supremacist, right-wing Trash. The Manchester Union Leader? White-supremacist, right-wing Trash. Forget all the journalism awards. If it doesn't call for Bush's head on a stick, it's right-wing, white-supremacist trash.
Don, I think he meant the original site posted by Gawain - confederateyankee.mu whatever.The Herald Sun is a white supremacist site? You know, I get really, really F-ING tired of this... any site that's right of the Guardian is by definition a white-sumpremacist right-wing rag. The Wall Street Journal? White-supremacist, right-wing Trash. The Manchester Union Leader? White-supremacist, right-wing Trash. Forget all the journalism awards. If it doesn't call for Bush's head on a stick, it's right-wing, white-supremacist trash.
I didn't read enough of it to note if it was a actually a white supremacist site, but it is sufficiently whacko right-wing to be beyond the pale.
No matter how dubious the cited source is (and it certainly is) - personal attacks will not be tolerated 
Originally Posted by Don Corleone:
I wouldn't put it past Hezbollah to do this very thing. The Herald Sun is publishing photos of Hezbollah dressed in civilian clothes setting up a rocket staging post in a residential neighborhood, right outside an appartment building. I don't think anybody seriously doubts that Hezbollah is using civilian cover as human shields.
I looked at the site you linked, and frankly it shows nothing of the sort. There's a picture of some fat old men and a couple of boys posing on an ancient ack-ack gun (rocket lauchers look quite a lot different and believe me, you don't want to be on top of them when they fire) and another fat old man looking at a bombing raid. The next picture of the three is a cropped version of the first picture.I wouldn't put it past Hezbollah to do this very thing. The Herald Sun is publishing photos of Hezbollah dressed in civilian clothes setting up a rocket staging post in a residential neighborhood, right outside an appartment building. I don't think anybody seriously doubts that Hezbollah is using civilian cover as human shields.
Hezbollah are trained fighters capable of giving the IDF a 20 day run for their money, not a bunch of wannabees with a tame and incredulous journo in tow.
Originally Posted by Don Corleone:
Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?
So far, all I've heard is that the UN begged the IDF to stop shelling them ten times.Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?
Further to the Qana incident, again, I don't know what stuff the US news channels broadcasts, but there are many highly respected journalists from around the world who disagree with the premise it was staged. But www.confederateyankee.mu.nu is clearly closer to the action than they are. And there were the IDF films of rockets being fired from Qana that the IDF has now accepted were filmed two days before, and can't positively confirm they were fired from near that building anyway. Call me old fashioned, but in my day we could target enemy artillery for counter-fire a bit faster than two days. And surprisingly, no-one has found any evidence of Hezbollah launchers in the rubble, only dead children.
Bloggers who come up with nonsense like the 'faces of the children were too white' when those bodies have been pulled from a destroyed concrete building need to be sent out there to retrieve some bodies themselves.
Does no-one pay attention these days? So this 'confederate yankee' site posted the article. It didn't write it. The original article, as I mentioned in my previous post, would appear to have been originally run in an Israeli daily magazine. By a chap called Reuven Koret.
Took me about 5 seconds to click on the link supplied on the American site to get to the Israeli original. But is that too much research to do, when it's so much easier to hop on the old high horse and start lambasting someone for their choice in source?
Took me about 5 seconds to click on the link supplied on the American site to get to the Israeli original. But is that too much research to do, when it's so much easier to hop on the old high horse and start lambasting someone for their choice in source?
Originally Posted by Somebody Else:
Does no-one pay attention these days? So this 'confederate yankee' site posted the article. It didn't write it. The original article, as I mentioned in my previous post, would appear to have been originally run in an Israeli daily magazine. By a chap called Reuven Koret.
If you're referring to me, I concluded by following your link that the Israeli article was as biased as the blog.Does no-one pay attention these days? So this 'confederate yankee' site posted the article. It didn't write it. The original article, as I mentioned in my previous post, would appear to have been originally run in an Israeli daily magazine. By a chap called Reuven Koret.
For example, they wrote about the first 1996 attack on Qana:
Originally Posted by :
Ten years ago, world condemnation of an errant Israeli shell that hit a civilian compound forced then-PM Shimon Peres to curtail the offensive against terror bases.
An (singular) errant (mistaken) shell? Try this report from a BBC correspondent. The video clip is from Jeremy Bowen, well known as a excellent source.Ten years ago, world condemnation of an errant Israeli shell that hit a civilian compound forced then-PM Shimon Peres to curtail the offensive against terror bases.
For example:
Originally Posted by :
Israel calls it a terrible mistake. They said the same in 1996, until a video recorded by one of the UN soldiers was handed to veteran reporter Robert Fisk of the Independent newspaper. This showed an Israeli drone was flying low over the base and would have seen the civilians.
Robert Fisk is widely regarded as a leading expert in the Middle East - most informed politicians on all sides read his reports for the real lowdown. Feel free to check his credentials.Israel calls it a terrible mistake. They said the same in 1996, until a video recorded by one of the UN soldiers was handed to veteran reporter Robert Fisk of the Independent newspaper. This showed an Israeli drone was flying low over the base and would have seen the civilians.
I take your point about biased viewpoints informing and challenging one's own perspective, but its not necessary to absorb all the one-sided conspiracy theorists to understand that hard-line Israelis and supporters are trying to spin the story.
Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost:
If you're referring to me, I concluded by following your link that the Israeli article was as biased as the blog.
I refer you to my first post on the matter, If you're referring to me, I concluded by following your link that the Israeli article was as biased as the blog.
Originally Posted by Somebody Else:
The original source of the quotation. Israeli website - obviously biased, therefore we should pay no attention to it. Or should we?
Just because something is biased, doesn't mean there isn't a grain of truth in it. Then again, it could still be false. Either way, it shouldn't be ignored, but used in collusion with other sources.
The original source of the quotation. Israeli website - obviously biased, therefore we should pay no attention to it. Or should we?
Just because something is biased, doesn't mean there isn't a grain of truth in it. Then again, it could still be false. Either way, it shouldn't be ignored, but used in collusion with other sources.
The original source of the quotation. Israeli website - obviously biased, therefore we should pay no attention to it. Or should we?
Just because something is biased, doesn't mean there isn't a grain of truth in it. Then again, it could still be false. Either way, it shouldn't be ignored, but used in collusion with other sources.
Yes Somebody Else , and also it should be used in collusion with todays version rom them which contradicts yesterdays .
Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?
Which one Don ? the one that got shelled , the other one that got shelled , the one that got bombed , the one that got mortared , the one that got shot at , the other one that got bombed , the one that got shelled again , the relief convoy that got shelled , the evacuation convoy that got shot at.......it just goes on and on , the situation reports are now issued daily instead of monthly and 6 monthly .
But to get to your point , yes there are lots of reported incidents from the monitors of both the Hez'ballah and IDF operating from near UN positions , there is also a report of an armed group removing the razor wire barrier and operating from within the UN position , but that wasn't the terrorists , that was the IDF (though with its complete disregard for civilian casualties and its abandonment of its own doctrine it is getting damn hard to tell the difference between the army and terrorists anymore) .
So far, all I've heard is that the UN begged the IDF to stop shelling them ten times.
Not quite Banquo , the position itself asked them 10 times , HQ asked 9 times and the Liason officer asked 6 times .
Just because something is biased, doesn't mean there isn't a grain of truth in it. Then again, it could still be false. Either way, it shouldn't be ignored, but used in collusion with other sources.
Yes Somebody Else , and also it should be used in collusion with todays version rom them which contradicts yesterdays .
Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?
Which one Don ? the one that got shelled , the other one that got shelled , the one that got bombed , the one that got mortared , the one that got shot at , the other one that got bombed , the one that got shelled again , the relief convoy that got shelled , the evacuation convoy that got shot at.......it just goes on and on , the situation reports are now issued daily instead of monthly and 6 monthly .
But to get to your point , yes there are lots of reported incidents from the monitors of both the Hez'ballah and IDF operating from near UN positions , there is also a report of an armed group removing the razor wire barrier and operating from within the UN position , but that wasn't the terrorists , that was the IDF (though with its complete disregard for civilian casualties and its abandonment of its own doctrine it is getting damn hard to tell the difference between the army and terrorists anymore) .
So far, all I've heard is that the UN begged the IDF to stop shelling them ten times.
Not quite Banquo , the position itself asked them 10 times , HQ asked 9 times and the Liason officer asked 6 times .
To update for Don as I assume it is the incident with the 3 unarmed observers killed and one missing presumed dead under a pile of rubble that he was on about.....
UNIFIL reported that, in total, 21 strikes occurred within 300 meters of the Patrol Base and 12 artillery rounds fell within 100 meters of the Base, four of which hit the Base directly. To our knowledge, unlike in the vicinity of some of our other Patrol Bases, Hezbollah firing was not taking place within the immediate vicinity of the Patrol Base.
And for todays report , 9 incidents of Israeli fire at UN bases none of which reported any hez'ballah activity , and 3 reports of hez'ballah activity near bases , none of which recieved Israeli fire .
UNIFIL reported that, in total, 21 strikes occurred within 300 meters of the Patrol Base and 12 artillery rounds fell within 100 meters of the Base, four of which hit the Base directly. To our knowledge, unlike in the vicinity of some of our other Patrol Bases, Hezbollah firing was not taking place within the immediate vicinity of the Patrol Base.
And for todays report , 9 incidents of Israeli fire at UN bases none of which reported any hez'ballah activity , and 3 reports of hez'ballah activity near bases , none of which recieved Israeli fire .
Originally Posted by Ser Clegane:
No matter how dubious the cited source is (and it certainly is) - personal attacks will not be tolerated
Don't worry, Ser. By the looks of it not many people take stalin seriously anyway.No matter how dubious the cited source is (and it certainly is) - personal attacks will not be tolerated
"Why do I have to wait 234 seconds to post a reply?" 
The video of that staged Genine (sp) "massacre" was priceless. Even though I think Hammas did that one Hizzibobo are more than capable of such of thing. Were the bodies staged? Did 7,000 civilians die in the invasion of Normandy? Did 100,000 people die when Tokyo was fire-bombed? I think we have to look at intent and I don't believe Israel intended to kill these people. But...
The video of that staged Genine (sp) "massacre" was priceless. Even though I think Hammas did that one Hizzibobo are more than capable of such of thing. Were the bodies staged? Did 7,000 civilians die in the invasion of Normandy? Did 100,000 people die when Tokyo was fire-bombed? I think we have to look at intent and I don't believe Israel intended to kill these people. But...
Originally Posted by Ser Clegane:
No matter how dubious the cited source is (and it certainly is)
It seems some of you overlook these, or have forgotton the nature of theNo matter how dubious the cited source is (and it certainly is)
sources that Gawain has used in the past. It is simply laughable to take that as
fact - although naturally all of you who sympathise with Israel will want to find
something to lessen their crimes, that much is understandable.
Originally Posted by Don Corleone:
Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?
The only thing I've seen is the email from the Canadian member of the UN contingent where he speaks of Hezbollah positions in and around the UN "patrol base" and that Israeli bombs and shells are landing close to UN positions out of "tactical neccesity".Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?
Originally Posted by :
Team Sierra is currently observing both IDF/IAF and Hezbollah military clashes from our vantage point which has a commanding view of the IDF positions on the Golan mountains to our east and the IDF positions along the Blue Line to our south, as well as, most of the Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base. It appears that the lion's share of fighting between the IDF and Hezbollah has taken place in our area.
Team Sierra is currently observing both IDF/IAF and Hezbollah military clashes from our vantage point which has a commanding view of the IDF positions on the Golan mountains to our east and the IDF positions along the Blue Line to our south, as well as, most of the Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base. It appears that the lion's share of fighting between the IDF and Hezbollah has taken place in our area.
Originally Posted by :
What I can tell you is this: we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity.
linkWhat I can tell you is this: we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity.
The only thing I've seen is the email from the Canadian member of the UN contingent
So you didn't see post#21 then ? is that selective blindness
So you didn't see post#21 then ? is that selective blindness
Originally Posted by Tribesman:
The only thing I've seen is the email from the Canadian member of the UN contingent
So you didn't see post#21 then ? is that selective blindness
Still trolling I see. The only thing I've seen is the email from the Canadian member of the UN contingent
So you didn't see post#21 then ? is that selective blindness
I was providing information and a link (try it sometime) to a question from Don. I provided information that actually helped answer his question and I dont see what bearing your post had on what I added.
I provided information that actually helped answer his question and I dont see what bearing your post had on what I added.
You provided information that said it was tactical neccesity on previous occasion .
I provided information that there was no hezbollah activity around the base at all during the day long incidents that ended in the deaths , so no tactical neccesity whatsoever .
You provided information that said it was tactical neccesity on previous occasion .
I provided information that there was no hezbollah activity around the base at all during the day long incidents that ended in the deaths , so no tactical neccesity whatsoever .
Originally Posted by English assassin:
I refer to the Beruit acid test for who is right in the middle east: in any picture involving a kid and a tank, he is on the side of the kid.
That acid test doesn't hold water when the enemy are known for using kids as intelligent, guided bombs.I refer to the Beruit acid test for who is right in the middle east: in any picture involving a kid and a tank, he is on the side of the kid.
Just because a people lack the heavy equipment (i.e. tanks, and F-16s) to militarily advance their cause does not automatically mean that their cause is just.
Originally Posted by :
The body starts to stiffen after 2 to 6 hours. I cannot really seem to find lapse of time between collapse and rescue attempts, but in your quote it is stated that the rescue was started very late, so there seems to be plenty of time for rigor mortis to start affecting the body.
If they died in the collapse in the morning, and the press (kept properly away from the inside) and 'rescuers' came shortly thereafter, the bodies wouldn't be stiff.The body starts to stiffen after 2 to 6 hours. I cannot really seem to find lapse of time between collapse and rescue attempts, but in your quote it is stated that the rescue was started very late, so there seems to be plenty of time for rigor mortis to start affecting the body.
Anyone remember 'Pallywood'? The palestinians pulled this kind of stunt (on a smaller scale, but much more often), and I would not be surprised at all if Hezbollah did this.
Originally Posted by :
I provided information that there was no hezbollah activity around the base at all during the day long incidents that ended in the deaths , so no tactical neccesity whatsoever .
Sorry, but when was the last time you went to the UN posts in Lebanon? Oh, wait, you didn't? You don't say. I provided information that there was no hezbollah activity around the base at all during the day long incidents that ended in the deaths , so no tactical neccesity whatsoever .
Really, tribesy.Originally Posted by :
That acid test doesn't hold water when the enemy are known for using kids as intelligent, guided bombs.
Just because a people lack the heavy equipment (i.e. tanks, and F-16s) to militarily advance their cause does not automatically mean that their cause is just.
Exactly. If you saw a photo of a German kid looking at an advancing Sherman, does that make the kid's side right?That acid test doesn't hold water when the enemy are known for using kids as intelligent, guided bombs.
Just because a people lack the heavy equipment (i.e. tanks, and F-16s) to militarily advance their cause does not automatically mean that their cause is just.
Originally Posted by :
Robert Fisk is widely regarded as a leading expert in the Middle East - most informed politicians on all sides read his reports for the real lowdown. Feel free to check his credentials.
Fisk? 'The real lowdown'? Please.Robert Fisk is widely regarded as a leading expert in the Middle East - most informed politicians on all sides read his reports for the real lowdown. Feel free to check his credentials.
Crazed Rabbit
Thread Ratings provided by
Thread Ratings (Lite) -
vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO