Mel Gibson's drunken tirade against Jews and the fallout

[Banquo's Ghost]

Alcohol has the disturbing tendency to remove inhibitions, so I would say that Mr Gibson's tirade is indicative of what he really thinks. Since his father is a card-carrying Holocaust denier whom he refuses to condemn, this is further evidence.

He's big in the Catholic world too, and sadly that Church is still shot through with fundamental anti-semitism. However, as you rightly say Don, this is completely wrong in a Christian context. I'm pretty anti-religious, but I would entirely accept your position.

I hope his career is, as he claimed in a moment of lucidity, f*****.

(Moreover, I'd love to have seen him try this stuff if he'd been pulled over by Eclectic. Somehow I doubt if the arrest report would have been altered quite so much )

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I could care less what he said, as far as I'm concerned his only purpose is to entertain me through movies. It's weird that this is news

[Ronin]

I could care less what he said, as far as I'm concerned his only purpose is to entertain me through movies. It's weird that this is news

exactly.....I like the guy because I enjoy lethal weapon....and mad max....and Payback is one of my all time favorite movies.....don´t particulary care what he says or does in his personal life or as a director....didn´t bother to see the "passion" as the subject matter didn´t interest me in the slightest.....


I just did a quick search and found out the guy was arrested for drunk driving and mouthed off to the police officer some.....so a guy got drunk and said some pretty stupid discusting remarks.....so what?....the world moves on...

[Banquo's Ghost]

I could care less what he said, as far as I'm concerned his only purpose is to entertain me through movies. It's weird that this is news

It's news because movie makers can influence people's opinions. Look at the other thread where some external views of the US were skewed out of reality by watching Hollywood's version of life there.

Movies can be more than entertainment, and those responsible for making them need their views examined for motivation, just like any opinion former.

[LeftEyeNine]

When you are into alcohol, your emotions and ideas get stronger and astray, they don't change 180 degrees. It is obvious that Gibson is not a fan of Jews.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You know I hate to point this out but in reference to the Passion, it was Jews that engineered Jesus' execution, he was betrayed by a Jew. However, that does not make Jews evil, since Jesus was also a Jew and so were his diciples.

Regardless, Jews were responsible for his arrest and execution, but not the Jews. So denying that Jews, and the Jewish establishment of the day, were not involved is as false as blaming modern Jews for the crucifiction of Jesus.

Tony Blair decided to take us into Iraq, does that make me responsible for the mess there now? Will it make my decendants responsible in 2,000 years.

As I recall Gibson's defence at the time was that it was the Gospel according to Mark.

Mark 43-65 clearly levels the blame at Judas and the Priests.

So I suppose that makes the Bible Anti-Semetic, except that the Gospels are reputed to have been written by Seminites.

Jews had Jesus crucified because he threatened the establishment but the fact that they were Jews is irrelevant in the context of racism because pretty much everyone in the whole book is a Jew.

Get over it.


So that leaves us with:

"F*****g Jews... The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world." Gibson then asked the deputy, "Are you a Jew?"

If thats all they've got its not much. Maybe Mel thinks we're at war with Muslim Extrimists because they hate us because we support Isreal.

Hardly major concrete evidence of anti-Semetic sentiments.

So maybe Mel is a Jew hater, or maybe he got drunk and launched into a tirade on the Middle East situation, which he blames Isreal for, as do the Arabs.

[English assassin]

He should have stuck with slagging off the English. The officers would probably have given him an escort home for that.

As for anti-semitism, I have been hog whimperingly drunk on many ocassions (which is to say, rather more drunk than being still able to drive suggests) and although I have had some pretty terrible ideas as a result, they have mostly involved "ladies with nice personalities". I can honestly say drunk or not it has never occured to me that the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world. So yeah, I'd say this was pretty suggestive that Mel has issues. just as well there are no jews in the entertainment industry, eh?

[Don Corleone]

Actually, most Americans have a very pro-British attitude. You're confusing our own ego and pride spilling over when watching the Patriot with an actual negative view of yourselves.

Hog whimperingly drunk... I'm going to have to remember that one.

[Reverend Joe]

Mel Gibson has been going seriously downhill ever since he stopped playing Mad Max. This is just another step down.

[English assassin]

Actually, most Americans have a very pro-British attitude. You're confusing our own ego and pride spilling over when watching the Patriot with an actual negative view of yourselves. .

Hmm, well that's the Patriot taken care of, but he still owes me for Braveheart.

Maybe someone should tell him that Jewish terrorists ran a campaign against the British in Palestine between 1945-48? He could make a film about the bombing of the King David Hotel. I'm sure he'd feel a lot more positively about jewish people if he thought of them killing the English...

(All of this probably sounds as if I care a lot more about Mr Gibson's views than I do. Still, Mad Max 2 was quite good, wasn't it?)

[Xiahou]

He's big in the Catholic world too, and sadly that Church is still shot through with fundamental anti-semitism. However, as you rightly say Don, this is completely wrong in a Christian context. I'm pretty anti-religious, but I would entirely accept your position.

Funny, I dont remember seeing his statue last time I was at Church... Seriously though, other than his celebrity status, he doesnt wield any more influence than anyone else- he doesnt set policy or shape thinking.

Shot through with anti-semitism?

I could care less what he said, as far as I'm concerned his only purpose is to entertain me through movies. It's weird that this is news

I dont get it either- the "hollywood crowd's" opinions are no better (and often worse) than everyone else. I dont really care what they have to say.

[Don Corleone]

Funny, I dont remember seeing his statue last time I was at Church... Seriously though, other than his celebrity status, he doesnt wield any more influence than anyone else- he doesnt set policy or shape thinking.

Shot through with anti-semitism?

I dont get it either- the "hollywood crowd's" opinions are no better (and often worse) than everyone else. I dont really care what they have to say.

When I watched "Munich" I had a really hard time reminding myself that Steven Speilberg is Jewish. He seemed to be saying that if the the Israelis have to use violence to defend themselves, then Israel doesn't deserve to exist.

I find many of the comments coming out of the American media way more anti-Israeli and indeed even anti-Jewish then what Mel said. I think the difference is tone. There's a world of difference between going on Tim Russert and calmly saying "At the end of the day, all problems in the Middle East are due to Israel and their heavy-handed responses to minor issues" as opposed to shouting in a drunken rage "f-ing Jews cause all the wars. Are you a Jew?"

I also think it's a double standard in the American media that the only people that can safely criticize Israel are Jews.

[Red Peasant]

Gibson only hurts his own credibility and career with such outbursts. He was not drunk but he'd had enough to oil his prejudices, and reveal his deep-seated Catholic 'Christ-Killers' complex which was there for all to see in 'The Passion'. Nice guy? Not.

His only decent film IMO was Mad Max I, and he barely spoke in that.

[econ21]

When I watched "Munich" I had a really hard time reminding myself that Steven Speilberg is Jewish. He seemed to be saying that if the the Israelis have to use violence to defend themselves, then Israel doesn't deserve to exist.

Going off on a tangent, but one of the things I liked about "Munich" was that it took a complex moral conundrum and did not seem to try to "say" anything in a simplistic sense. The issue was not reduced to one of the legitimacy of "violence" - fighting in the 1973 war was presented in an uncomplicated light. Rather it was one of what are the limits to violence - in that specific case, does it extend to assassinating "civilians" in foreign countries? With all the possiblilities of faulty intelligence, "collateral damage" and furthering a spiral of violence that it may entail. But the general issue is still a live one for Israel at the moment and arguably for the US in its so-called "war on terror".

"Munich" was characterised by the all the nuances, ambiguities and uncertainties that are so absent in Mel's movies.

[Devastatin Dave]

Whoever combined my thread with Don's, Don gets the credit for the title and the main discussion. Could a mod please give him the credit by having his name as the author of the discussion...
Thanks

[Ser Clegane]

Whoever combined my thread with Don's, Don gets the credit for the title and the main discussion.

An honourable request but the posts of two merged threads get sorted in chronological order - and yours came a couple of minutes earlier

I chose Don's thread title for the combined thread as it was more descriptive

[Geoffrey S]

This wouldn't be so much of an issue if Mel hadn't stated he didn't hate jews after The Passion; as it stands it shows him to be something of a hypocrit and it does put that work in a different light. That combined with his additional status as producer and famous actor means his views can be shown in a persuasive fashion, when his views are potentially anti-semitic.

Having said that, I agree with econ21 about the lack of subtlety in his movies. In particular both Braveheart and The Patriot were unnecesarily simplified and painted the brits in an unrealistically evil light. I can't take them particularly seriously.

I also agree with the statements that being drunk doesn't make one into a different person with all-new views; while drunkenness does amplify emotions and opinions, those opinions must have been there to start with.

[Don Corleone]

Whoever combined my thread with Don's, Don gets the credit for the title and the main discussion. Could a mod please give him the credit by having his name as the author of the discussion...
Thanks

Much appreciated, but completely unnecessary. As Ser C pointed out, you got the drop on me. Besides, is starting new threads really a creditable activity? I always sort of thinking of it as raising the next turn in the conversation... continuing on with the whole tavern metaphor...

[Divinus Arma]

Sad. I really liked Mel Gibson. My wife is a nut for him, worshipping him since she was a kid. In fact, I bought every one of his damn DVDs for her xmas present last year except Attack Force Z, which wasn't on DVD yet.

I agree with Don on this one. Alcohol does lower inhibitions and it does amplify feelings. And as a drinker myself who has eaten his own shoe plenty of times, I can see both sides.

It's clear to me that Mel Gibson has a serious problem with Jews.

What if he started yelling N***er? And blamed blacks for wars and violence? He would be totally "F***ed", as he put it. But since it's just the Jews again, nobody gives a damn. I'm more angry at the response than the actual comments.

The Jews are the world's scapegoat. They killed Christ, they control the media, they are to blame for middle east violence, etc, etc. Racism disgusts me to no end. Mel's tirade is proof of his hatred and nothing more.

[Lemur]

My favorite comment on the whole sad business so far: