The Will of the Senate - out of character thread III

[Braden]

PM'd ya.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Well, I've got everything reinstalled, but I am without a savegame presently. So hang in there all of you. BI seems to works flawlessly. I'll start reading up all the accumulates mail.

BTW, don't hesitate to clutter up this thread with technical problems, we all want to help out our new lower house members

EDIT : It should be possible to block the Bosporus using fleets. Anyone have any clue why this is not working ? Are my fleets too small ?

[Braden]

Thanks DDW – ok, if I stumble I will post here. I guess the issues are “game related” as they’re about the installation and playing of the campaign anyway.

Your problem – I’m going to answer it EVEN THOUGH I am unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game (queue derogatory remarks)…..

They’re named Land Bridges in the game and in the files relating to them so MY assumption is that they cannot be blocked with fleets as fleets are still, in-game, classed as sea units which can’t block or operate on land.

…however they can sail across these land bridges as they are just software mods designed to allow land unit transport. In other words they are incomplete Mods deliberately but as incomplete mods they do not allow for every variant in the game.

In this case the game may be looking at them as 1) Sea & 2) Traversable by Land forces but then it looks at the sea units and they can 1) move on sea so as this is the first rule it allows the ships to move across the land bridges BUT then it looks at item #2 and will not allow them to block land units as its hardwired that no sea unit can block a land unit “on land”.

Hope that explains my theory on it, wonder if I’m correct?

To be honest I don’t know the thinking behind these Land bridges, can someone tell me why they have been added? Is it just another unrealistic mechanism to encourage the AI to be more aggressive? or is there some historical accuracy or other realism behind their inclusion?

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

The Bosporus and the crossing in Italy and so on, are very small streches of water which can be crossed by armies with minimal difficulty (Darius crossed the Bosporus with an estimated 250.000 men by building a bridge out of small boats). So no real transport fleets are needed. The AI is pretty hopeless at naval invasions, altough a bit better with all the patches and so on, so this is why the land brdiges are vital for the AI.
According to the posts I could find, it is possible to block travel across land bridges with fleets, but perhaps the fleets need to be a certain size ? I used this tactic extensively in EU II, but I cannot remember if I used it in RTW. I think I did.

[Braden]

Perhaps not the size of fleets but the number of fleets?

Each fleet having a set “Zone of Control/Obstruction” so you may have to string small fleets along the straits with interconnecting “Zones of Control” for it to be effective?

[Mount Suribachi]

I've never heard of being able to block land bridges with fleets - thats the point of land bridges in the TW series.

TBH, I was amazed to see them in RTR, every other TW mod I've played has removed all the land bridges as unrealistic. Indeed, RTRPE has land-blocks! All very strange.

[TinCow]

In RTRPE the landblocks and landbridges are specifically designed to make the AI more challenging and also more historical. Without the landblocks, Bactria ends up expanding in the wrong direction and Carthage and Ptolemy always fight each other rather than anyone else.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

I think the fleet blockade works, but I need more fleets. Four more seasons should perhaps block the Bosporus. We'll see.

[Lucjan]

Braden's assumptions are correct.

It is impossible to block the land movement across the Bosporus with naval units. You can block sea movement through the straits with sea units, but to block incoming land armies you need to use other land armies. The game doesn't view the two as being on the same level of play and therefore they can't block each others' movements.

[econ21]

I've put up a short table of some of the key events in our history in the first post in the First Consul thread. Doing so, I realise I played a 21 turn reign. Sorry, I never could count.

I make it that the present turn is DDWs last, is that right? It would be good to wrap it up before he disappears to Rome proper tomorrow, but that may be optimistic - particularly because I am still getting a CTD with the latest savegame.

Rather than wait until DDW returns on Sunday, I propose we run the election from Thursday to Sunday even if DDW has not quite finished the current turn[1]. He can finish it when he returns and the new First consul should then be able to take up office early next week. The alternative of waiting from DDW to return from Rome would likely delay the next First Consul starting until the following weekend. What do people think?

[1]If he can finish, but can't surmount the CTD problem in time, he could upload a save before ending the turn and I could play around with the file to try to avoid the problem (e.g. by spawing Romans in abandoned settlements).

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

I'm almost done. Just waiting for FLYdude now (unusual, it usually takes him less than 45 minutes to reply with a new save )

I must say I am not exactly envious of the next consul. What a mess. Once again, I must rail against the difficulty settings. The fact that the Germans, our allies, did not accept Viberi as a gift is truly annoying. This is ridiculous.
I will leave the next consul with a savegame starting summer 255 BC, if I can manage that is, otherwise I will leave the last savegame in all your hands to fiddle with.
It is possible that we will be attacked by Iberia during the turnover, and this would be a rather important fact to take into the senate deliberations.

I will state my position before I leave for Rome. I am of course unhappy not to be here at the fun time of senate deliberations, but that's too bad.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

FLYdude was as speedy as usual

Well, I finished up my turn and it crashes on me . I'll write the report first before I do any testing, but I do not have all that much time tomorrow.
So, for those who are interested :
Savegame : http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/255-spr-end.zip

Incredible amounts of kudos for the one who can get it to work.

[Glaucus]

Off topic, but I have a question regarding the Roman Leadership. When you have 10 years of experience, what else does it take to become a Legate? I have a guy who has been in the field for a few years after the 10 year service mark, then he took a settlement and has been residing there a few years. What will give him the promotion?

[Dooz]

Glaucus, if he's been residing in the settlement for more than 2 seasons and you take him back out in the field with an army, he'll be promoted to Legate and recieve a numbered Legion banner.

DDW, it is indeed crashing, but if we give away Nicomedia that'll most likely fix it right up. Sometimes, for some strange reason, they'll refuse to take a city as a gift. I find it helps to tack on perhaps 100 denarii to sweeten the deal, lol. Not much of a loss for us and it gets us out of the CTD situation. Also I notice my legion has been taken apart . I hope I don't get stuck here for too long as a governor.

[econ21]

If anyone get us to Summer 255 without a CTD, please upload a save.

I'll take a look at it tonight - what I will try is using the console to spawn troops in our abandoned settlements. If that avoids the CTD, we can role-play them as rebels and let the Seleucids deal with them.

[Braden]

I dunno, I finally get all the mods installed and confirm the game is working and now we hit a CTD!!

Yeah, that’s right, I have a working Senate Game on my system now – played out one turn and one battle last night (the 255-spr-1.zip save file). Just had a look to confirm everything looked ok, clicked “End Turn” and then decided to initiate a combat between Verginius and the nearest Selucid stack.

The battle went fine, I won but mainly because the AI deployed in woodland where its Phalanx’s couldn’t work properly and where our barbarian troops revelled!

We had 80 casualties and they lost only 260 but that was mainly because I couldn’t see when they were routing due to the woodland so didn’t manage to time my charge to chase them down early enough.

Anyway, I say I’ve got the full mod installed but I lie really – I still have to add the revised descr_stat file for the naval mod but other than that I’m virtually ready to take the lower house. (Edit: looking at the file and the fact I forgot a blank CD….that’s going to add a day…bum!)

There isn’t anything other than to replace this txt from my file in situ is there?

My ONLY thing at the moment is that I have no internet at home still due to my ISP being an arse!

I can play in the lower house and fight battles though I’ll have to download the .sav file from work, cut it to CD and then play it at home, re-cut another disc etc etc.

So, I’d rather not actually have to fight any battles until I can upload and download directly from home if that’s ok. However, seeing as my Avatar is still only 19, he isn’t going to be leading any front line armies anyway.

I’ll leave it up to whomever will be Consul to decided what to do with my Avatar (I’d suggest a 2nd in command for now if he’s needed in the field).

Whilst I’m on the subject of Consuls – just how many eligible Avatars do we have for a Consul position (working within the main rules)? Seeing as we’ve had several casualties lately it could be a problem to find Consuls couldn’t it?

Back to me…….although I had a decent victory I could do with some practice so as soon as I get the descr_stat file updated I’ll play through the campaign from the new .sav file – see if I get CTD and also play from the earlier files (so I don’t get a CTD) just for some battle practice with the units.

But....YAY! I'm playing!!

[econ21]

Ok, Braden - the best thing to do about your character is lobby (PM) the next First consul to get an assignment that suits. If you are a student, it might be best to be in an academy; if you are not a student, it might be best to be the second general in a stack to build up military experience. Let us know when you want to step down into the Lower House (ie fight battles).

On the CTD, I've revisited the second thread Wonderland linked to. Rather than spawning units, the first thing I will try tonight is Cheexsta's suggestion of modding the EDB file:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...8&postcount=98

[Braden]

I see, certainly, I think I’m still a student as of the last .sav I have (which is the turn before the CTD) with another 2 years to run.

I’ll confirm my Avatars status tonight and start lobbying for a related posting for the next Consulship.

I’d rather finish my official education before taking the field but if I’m available for military service then I certainly will be aiming for that and lobby to be a second General in a stack as you suggest – besides I really need some time in the field as I’ve already started building negative traits (Gourmand and Lazy).

That “fix” sounds promising and the reasoning behind why the CTD occurs seems sound so fingers crossed.

[Braden]

Can anyone tell me what’s happening with the RTR forums? They’re still dead.

[econ21]

Apparentlty, they will come back but for now the best place is the twcenter RTR sub-forums - they have a lively one devoted to RTRPE alone.

The RTR site is now:

http://www.totalrealism.net

[TinCow]

I got the save to move on... and then didn't save it. I gave Viberi (or whatever that northern town is) to Thrace with 2000 gold (from a cancelled market) and it went just fine. I then reloaded to try it with no gold (which works too) and it crashed. I've tried a few more times and can't get it to move on again, but it IS possible.

It's definitely Nicomedia and the other city revolting. When it advanced, the cities both stayed with Rome and did not revolt. It's definitely possible to move this save on though, so just keep loading and trying until it works (I would but I have to go to work). Alternatively, is there a console command to change ownership of the cities?

[Braden]

Oh! just occured to me.....what .exe are we using to play or doesn't it matter for our version?

I was using the Rome.exe I believe last night (well the Rome CD was in so it must be).

Have read that things like the shield walls etc don't work with the Rome.exe.

[Lucjan]

I can get the save game to work no problem at all, but you all need to beg me real nice. Mwuahaha...

And it kind of involves hiring and abandoning a unit of mercenaries in each city. Leaving a merc unit in Nicomedia and Prusa then ending the turn causes it not to crash, but both cities revolt to Seleucid anyway.

It's actually an easy fix to get around, it just requires everybody consenting to, basically, throw the money away on the mercs to pass the game on.

[econ21]

Good - nice to know the campaign can proceed.

Let me try the EDB fix tonight - if it avoids us ever having these CTDs in the future it would be best.

If that fails, I'll ask Lucjan to upload his Summer 255 save and we can muddle on.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Oh! just occured to me.....what .exe are we using to play or doesn't it matter for our version?

I was using the Rome.exe I believe last night (well the Rome CD was in so it must be).

Have read that things like the shield walls etc don't work with the Rome.exe.

Check out Quintus's post . Both should work. If you've installed BI, RTW might not work any more. If you have BI, use BI for the extra features like swimming and so on.

[Braden]

Best I use the BI disc then.....thanks.

Edit: Hang on……last night I used the Rome Disc but to activate the Mod I used the new shortcut that RTR put on my desktop….

…have I boo-boo’d?

Edit 2: ok, makes sense now. I don’t know if my test last night was fundamentally wrong in any way…having used the Rome disc & the RTR shortcut from desktop..…but I will amend my BI shortcut and use that (in conjunction with the BI disc I assume) from now on (and after redressing that last file from the naval mod).

[econ21]

OK, the EDB fix did not work so I have followed Lucjan's advice. I have uploaded a file 255-sum-1.zip which I would like the next first Consul to start from.

What I did was cancel the integration (?) building in Delmatia to free some money up. Then I moved Numerius into the Eastern merc recruitment zone south of Nicomedia. I hired one peltast to garrison Prusa and sent Numerius to garrison Nicomedia. Then I clicked end turn (after setting Byzantion's taxes to low to avoid a riot). Nicomedia promptly rebelled to Seleucia, unceremoniously expelling Numerius to Byzantion, while Prusa rioted but did not rebel.

We may have to foreswear the looting and abandoning tactic altogether but if Lucjan's fix continues to work, what I suggest for now is a new houserule: no settlement can be left abandoned without at least one unit being left as a sacrificial lamb. Fingers crossed that should avoid these kind of CTDs.

BTW, Iberia did not declare war, but a scary Seleucid army is now past Maronia and barrelling down on FLYdude.

PS: Together with my inability to count turns, you may now have noticed an inability to count days - we have four days of Senate debate, rather than the conventional three, until Saturday 6pm when the polls open. However, I suggest we leave it like that as it gives DDW a fighting chance to vote when gets back from Rome on Sunday.

[Braden]

To be honest I foresee the Senate being quite sedate this time round for Motions. The situation is SO dire that there isn’t much to vote upon as there isn’t that much that the Republic can actually DO at the moment!

We don’t have that much money, don’t have any spare armies….we’re firmly on the defensive so its likely to be a matter of motions addressing where people best believe armies are to be placed defensively.

It seems that if we have to leave some garrison in every city lest we get a CTD, that further ties our hands in that the Senate can’t really suggest any full raids anymore without some financial outlay……however, your suggestion, or rather Lucjan’s, has got to be the best option.

I’ll get the new .zip file and have a look at it tomorrow evening (I really need a 500k flash drive!) – once I’ve got it I’m aiming to experiment with some really bold and “stupid” moves (like, take one legion and invade Carthage) just to see what I’m made of!

Now to think of something to propose…….

Edit: Bum! Just realised that if the Voting day is Sunday I’ll miss it AGAIN if my home connection is still down…..

…ho-hum.

[econ21]

Bum! Just realised that if the Voting day is Sunday I’ll miss it AGAIN if my home connection is still down…..

Bummer - I guess we could organise a postal vote type facility, if you PM me your vote as of Friday.

DDW, do you think you can vote on Sunday?

If you both can't, there's an argument for keeping open the polls until Monday.

[Dutch_guy]

To be honest I foresee the Senate being quite sedate this time round for Motions. The situation is SO dire that there isn’t much to vote upon as there isn’t that much that the Republic can actually DO at the moment!

Plus. binding the consul to all kind of motions doesn't seem the best thing to do either.