The Will of the Senate - out of character thread III

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

DDW, do you think you can vote on Sunday?

I'm back in Holland at Sunday 10 Sep 06, 23:30.
So if I can vote sunday night I can vote.

[Mount Suribachi]

What are we going to do about trying to give away the Thracian settlements to Germania? If the VH AI won't accept a gift, like DDW says, it all gets rather silly. Can we agree to lower the difficulty temporarily to get them to accept? Or will give them a 100 denarii sweetener do the trick most of the time? Maybe even quicksave before the proposal and keep reloading it till we can get them to accept?

[Mount Suribachi]

Switching the difficulty discussion to here, I personally would rather see a H/H campaign. The VH AI is starting to drive me nuts. And the AI needs the bonuses on the battlemap (despite killing me twice!). Then again, they lose that 10,000 denarii per turn dropping to H....

[Dutch_guy]

I still think things are fine as they are. Giving the AI it's bonuses on a strategic level I don't mind nearly as much as they would get on the battlefield (VH).

As it is now, we're being put to the test on a strategic level (bigger, better AI armies) and we're not being screwed over by rediculous morale penalties...

[TinCow]

A quick note of regret, posting here rather than via PMs because it is faster.

I have been preparing to run for Consul this term, as was probably obvious in the Senate. Unfortunately, some serious issues have cropped up at work and I am not going to have the time to be able to play as First Consul, even if I ran with a co-Consul. To those whom I had made promises, I sincerely apologize, but this situation is beyond my control. For now I think I can stay in the Lower House, but it is even possible that I will need to be switched to the Upper House for up to a month. If that is necessary, I will make a post to that effect as soon as I know. Again, sincerest apologies.

[Tricky Lady]

Hello, just a quick note to tell you that my internet is now restored, so I should be able to follow up the PBM again, yay!!

Now back to reading the stories! I need to know where we are.

[econ21]

I have been preparing to run for Consul this term, as was probably obvious in the Senate. Unfortunately, some serious issues have cropped up at work and I am not going to have the time to be able to play as First Consul, even if I ran with a co-Consul.

Thanks for letting us know. I hope the work stuff goes well.

I know it may rather spoil the fun of the politicking side, but my instinct is always to try identify potential first consuls in the out of character thread. I also want everyone who wants to be First Consul to have a turn at it. So, I will be blunt - do we have any Lower House members who would like to run?

I don't want to break a confidence, but I understand GeneralHankerchief was interested in the job 10 turns hence. Could we bring the timetable forward? I know he may think it premature from a roleplaying perspective, but:
(a) He's leading the Consular army against Carthage, which we seem to agree is the main area for offensive operations & so is kind of doing the Consul's job already, which was to head the main army.
(b) He's a blood relative of the First Consul's grandson and that's got to count for something (GWB anyone?).
(c) We might even roleplay it as Verginius as suffering from ill-health & so pushing forward the timetable for his successor.

And/or are there other people interested? Competition is good.

PS: Welcome back, TrickyLady - can we put you back in the Lower House?

[Dooz]

I should say again, another way to bypass the CTD is to give Nicomedia away, and tack on a small donation of denarii as well. Doesn't have to be as much as 2,000 though. 1,000 should be more than enough to get anyone to accept, maybe even less. That way we don't have to waste troops and sacrifice them to keep going. And really, there are only a few cities that cause the CTD's, so no need to have a rule that requires sacrificing a unit for every city we loot.

-edit-
Oh, and we have to give Viberi to the Germans the second the next Consul loads up the game, even before ending the Spring 255 turn. I know DDW tried, but he didnt' add a money donation so that should be tacked on.

[econ21]

Unless anyone protests, I think I'll extend the voting period to 48 hours to let DDW and Braden vote. We don't have that many active players and these are among the two most participatory.

-edit-
Oh, and we have to give Viberi to the Germans the second the next Consul loads up the game, even before ending the Spring 255 turn. I know DDW tried, but he didnt' add a money donation so that should be tacked on.

Just curious, but why do we have to give away Viberi? Have you seen the Summer 255 savegame I uploaded? We did not give away Viberi, but there was not a problem, AFAIK. I clicked ahead a few turns and there were no CTDs either.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Regarding the Consul election, I have contacted Mount Suribachi to see whether he's interested in being my co-Consul. I plan to run either way, but it would be nice to ease a little of the burden.

My manifesto will be based on his reply, so look for that shortly.

[TinCow]

Due to the same work issues, I won't be able to get to the Library update tonight. I will work on it tomorrow night (post 7pm EST).

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

Unless anyone protests, I think I'll extend the voting period to 48 hours to let DDW and Braden vote. We don't have that many active players and these are among the two most participatory.

Just curious, but why do we have to give away Viberi? Have you seen the Summer 255 savegame I uploaded? We did not give away Viberi, but there was not a problem, AFAIK. I clicked ahead a few turns and there were no CTDs either.

That's nice.
I've looked at the save. When it rebels it becomes a rebel town. So the best course is indeed to just let it rebel, as that will provide a better barrier as when we give it to the Germans. I will adjust my motions accordingly.

GeneralHankerchief, that's great news. I wonder if Mount Suribachi dares to be your co-consul. It seems to be a hazardous job.

TinCow, take it easy

[econ21]

Just to highlight another couple of things from the Summer 255 save we will be using - the Iberians have marched a 3/4 stack army to near Jenuensis.

On a lighter note, Valerius Paullus (aka Mount Suribachi) has become a Legate and re-spawned the Legio IV banner.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

You should at least have added a spoiler warning to that.

Let them live in fear, that's my motto.

[Tricky Lady]

PS: Welcome back, TrickyLady - can we put you back in the Lower House?

Yeah, I'll try to fight any battles, should that be necessary. I see that my avatar is now governing Segestica. Maybe we should keep good old Vatinius there for a while :-p

[Dooz]

I was just saying to give away Viberi because I thought it might rebel to the Germans and we'd be at automatic war with them. But seeing as how it rebels to rebel, all is well .

[Braden]

Econ21,

Thanks for extending the voting period, I’m having little joy from my ISP as they are waiting for BT to fix the issue.

Anyway on a lighter note myself, as soon as my Avatar is of a fitting age you just KNOW that I’ll be running for the head job! Is daunting though as the map looks so cluttered compared to a normal Rome game and we have so many regions already.

I want my Avatar to at least get to his mid twenties and have some battle experience first before putting myself forward.

*I was going to say some thing here but decided its better for the game if everyone just Doesn’t know! Suffice to say I’ve played the campaign forward using the plans already in place…….and……..Eeekkkk!*

The use of a unit of Mercs to hold a town we empty works fine in all cases but I’m going to try from the recommended .sav file tonight just in case there were any final adjustments that would effect things (which I think there are).

[StoneCold]

Hmm... that sound bad... :p but fun... too bad I am not a lower house... sigh... :P

[econ21]

You should at least have added a spoiler warning to that.

Just to clarify - the Iberian army roaming around Jenuensis is there in the Summer 255 save. It's not a "prediction" based on playing ahead (which I don't generally do unless to explore a technical aspect like CTDs). In your report, you said it would be important to know if Iberia attacked us between turns. I'm just saying it did not, but did move its army across the alps towards us.

Let them live in fear, that's my motto.

Indeed.

[Braden]

Actually that is concerning and something I didn’t put together.

The Iberians are moving armies about but not really doing anything…..neither are is Carthage (on the islands after landing).

Does anyone know if these are connected? Just seems odd to me that we’ve suddenly got several “invasion” armies in our regions who have decided to just sit there and do nothing for several seasons/years.

This is one of the reasons I've proposed my motion to "confront" the Iberian army - to try and stimulate the AI into action of some sort.

[econ21]

I think they are unrelated.

The Carthaginian inactivity is a clearly a bug - I think specific to the islands geography and/or naval AI. It bothered me before, but given that we are moving on their homeground, we can probably ignore it. (Although personally, I think the second Consular army going south should expell the invaders from the islands first, just for roleplaying reasons.)

Iberia not attacking us need not be a bug. It's arguably a smart move on their part - IIRC they are not as strong as Seleucia or Egypt, and we actually have pretty decent armies near them. It will be interesting to see what they do. I wonder if they will strike if they wander near a powerly defended province? (I suspect a weak border defence may trigger war - it did in MTW, IIRC). Remember Macedon "menaced" us a lot during FLYdude's first half term, before ultimately making an opportunistic attack on a weakly held settlement.

[StoneCold]

Which means that most of the settlement in Italy should start to fortify up? Or we should just move the northern legion, Cisapline Legion, and others to fords and crossing and try and bottle up the threat?

[econ21]

Which means that most of the settlement in Italy should start to fortify up? Or we should just move the northern legion, Cisapline Legion, and others to fords and crossing and try and bottle up the threat?

In this mod, most settlements can't have walls so fortification is not really an option (against such a large army, most unwalled settlements could not be adequately defended).

The idea of "shadowing" the roaming Iberian army with one of our own may not be a bad one. By keeping a strong force in its vicinity, it may deterr the AI from thinking war is a good option. FLYdude did it to the Macedonian army that kept confronting us in Greece and it did not attack. The Macedonians only struck elsewhere (near N. Italy) when they found themselves trapped near a poorly defended Roman settlement.

GeneralHankerchief: I'm glad you are going to run. I wonder, are you happy to go along with the "governors" idea we've discussed previously?

ie at the beginning of your office, create a list of assignments (military commands and governorships) with the general who will fill the assignment. You don't need to make the list complete at first - you can gradually move people into place; but it should be kept up to date.

Commanders of named military formations should be straightforward - de facto we've done this already.

With governors, the idea is that the governors should be allowed to specify a build order for the next 10 turns. You don't have to authorise any builds, but if you do, they should be the one at the top of the governor's list. Try to keep the taxes high too, to avoid ruining the governors through bad vices.

PS: Does anyone know why Augustus Verginius is not a praetor (general) yet?

[Avicenna]

Praetor limit perhaps? It's one for every 20 or 30 settlements. Also, you can't advance if you still have a Legion banner.

[Braden]

Ahh..if we have president with Macedonia then hopefully there isn't a problem....though I think you're giving the AI a but more credit than its due.

However, I was hoping that confronting the Iberians with two part stacks that make it impossible to advance further into our region may provoke it into an attack (especially if they appear to be "weak" stacks) rather than get it to withdraw.

I'm with Econ21 on this in that we can, and should, encourage the AI to go against us at every turn and deliberately make it harder for us (the invasion of Apolloina, Byzantion, striking at Carthago and proding Iberia etc).

That way we don't have to fiddle with the setting and we get into a situation like this where we're constantly under pressure. However, I am concerned by DDW's comments as this policy may be causing too much headache OOC for the Consuls

Comments?

Basically, if I did everything IC then we'd all be nice and safe and hugely powerful (as well as being nigh unbeatable) so to a certain extent an OOC attitude to certain things is best in my opinion.

[StoneCold]

Just another game play question. I found that in my games, the cities with suspected enemy spies tends to be more frequently rooted out when there are spies of our own stationed there. Hence, I usually form a group of spy-killing team of say 2 spies and 1 assassin and travel to 'hot spots'. They are also useful for scouting and protecting generals.

My generals usually travel with at least a spy in the party.

I am wondering are the legions and governors in our games guarded as such?

[Dutch_guy]

I am wondering are the legions and governors in our games guarded as such?

As far as I'm aware of, no. As a matter of fact, I find we're using a bit too few agents this PBM, now we haven't exactly been spamming them in the other PBM's, but it could add to the flavor of the game if, say, an upper house member role-plays an agent and starts to request kills and other missions.

Also,I tend to use my spies and assassins the way you do, StoneCold. Although I usually limit my legions to one assassin or spy a piece, simply because having to micromanage the movement and placement of your agents can be a lot of work.

[econ21]

There were at least two assassins gunning for FLYdude towards the end of the war with Macedon. When I pressed "end turn", our most senior general would often die. If you read the First Consul's report, it looks like DDW killed one with an assassin and a spy frustrated the other. Well played, DDW!

But generally, it seems we do use spies for spying, but not for guarding. We also seem to have assassins who knock-off the odd diplomat. Bear in mind though that each agent costs 100 gold per turn (IIRC) and we are very short of money.

I think it would be a good idea to do the occasional "security sweep": I often use a double team spy + assassin combo. The spy spots the enemy assassin, our own assassin takes him down.

[Dutch_guy]

But generally, it seems we do use spies for spying, but not for guarding. We also seem to have assassins who knock-off the odd diplomat. Bear in mind though that each agent costs 100 gold per turn (IIRC) and we are very short of money.

Never knew that, am I correct in assuming RTRPE changed this ?

Because I seem to remember agents (every one of them) not costing anything other than their recruitment cost.

[econ21]

Actually, I am basing my recollection from vanilla - I think froggy's guide warned about this. Now you mention it, I never checked if it were true.