cavalry, abuse or use

**gaijinalways** · 08-05-2006, 23:17

I often like to work my cav hard, baiting, looking to catch AI routers, trying to tease the AI out of position, taking down seige weapons, etc.

But often, these are my most depleted units after some battles. I wonder if I don't pay enough attention to them or just put them into too much danger too often.

Anyway, one of my favorite warnings is when I get warnings about constant retreats, thus getting cav units that have lost no or very few members to rout! Still, these units do their job, and if I have a replacement, then I can bring in somebody else.

But how do you use cav? Which do you use?

(I often use mercs, xbows, RKs that I make, some steppe types).

**Ironside** · 08-07-2006, 10:13

Well, compare your kill/loss ratio in the end of the battle for your cav compared to your front line units. Units that see combat very often will have losses no matter what.
You cannot expect a ratio of 95 to 1 in every battle (my golden lancers took down a 3500 men faction reappearence with that ratio

).

Considering that you'll get constant retreats messages, indicates that you shift destinations with you cav too often and that you control them quite a bit. So unless your kill/loss ratio is very poor, then you use your cav quite well, but needs to refine your tactics so that the constant retreat message doesn't show up.

I use cav for most purposes, although chasing routers is the most important. The cav varies, but I'll usually throw in a mix of what aviable to the faction, although it would probably be more optimized to use heavy cav almost entirely (and heavy horse archers), but I like variation.

For cav training I recommend that you'll test using pure cav armies, you'll really need to think to use them well. And you'll get good at swarming units.

Swarming is what I call it when attack them from all flanks and then hit them in the former front (you can actually attack them in the front instead of feinting, if you have to of course, but that's a bad idea vs polearms). Causes instant rout on almost everything, and the rest will die very quickly.
It even works with regular horse archers, but isn't that recommendable.

**Ciaran** · 08-07-2006, 12:22

Being someone who likes the heavy stuff, I mostly use Chivalric Knights as my main cavalry, Lancers if I play the Spanish, and Gendarmes if available as a complement.

I also experience heavy losses for my cav, as a rule, because, I suspect, I don´t micromanage them enough, I tend to smash them into the back or flank of the enemy (swords and ranged units usually get attacked head on - not the smartest move, I know, but they tend to do well enough) and then let them hack it out, focussing on someone different and rotating my attention over the whole battlefield. As a result, when I come back to my Cav, they have usually lost quite a number (though as a rule they´ve also dealt better than they´ve taken).
On the other hand, I´ve also lost battles because I´ve micromanaged my cavalry and almost completely ignored the rest of the battle, which, of course went down south. If there is an ideal way, I´ve yet to find it.

**gaijinalways** · 08-07-2006, 15:57

Yes, I think the valor and morale rankings also have something to do with it, though I often get jinnetes doing it, thus my dislike for that unit

!

Yes, I like to do a lot of feinting, but also I don't want my missle cav decimated. I usually can pepper some AI footsoldiers, than run away as RKs or better chase me (or AI missle troops). I wouldn't think that in a battle I am winning that cav would rout before that unit has made actual physical contact

! But as I said ealier, they often do their job, distracting some faster soldiers into chasing me, or some troops being out of place as the rest of my troops slowly come up to make contact, missle or otherwise.

Ah, swarming, I like doing that especially with AI troops I have already slightly depleted by missle attacks or frontal assaults and sometimes I engage with a small group of spearmen or swords at the front (sometimes a small group of mercs whose suicide value hasn't been used up yet)

while my cav hit from behind and on the side!

**danfda** · 08-07-2006, 16:04

I am certain that I abuse cav. I generally like to have two to four units per army (which gets expensive, but the rest usually are cheap spam infantry--preferably inf that can shoot arrows). I engage and flank, pretty basic, and the only time that I get bad cav kill ratios is when I accidentally forget about the poor guys and they wander off to get mauled. I often do take losses, but considering that they are the sharp point of my army, that is to be expected. So no, Ciaran, you're not alone. :D

Horse archers, the basic variety, I suck with. Generally I end up using any available cav as the hammer to an infantry anvil, so HAs don't work so well. Boyars are great, HSC are also quite nice, but I prefer nice, tank-like cav.

**tigger_on_vrb** · 08-07-2006, 18:13

On the contarary I would say I abuse my infantry! I use my cavalry as a highly mobile force - advance, retreat, probing defences, defend flanks, chasing routers etc while I expect my infantry to sit holding the centre and not rout!
I prefer a mixture of mounted missiles and medium cavalry for this purpose as it suits my tactics better. I'm very protective of my cavalry and expect few losses and an amazing kill to loss ratio while I expect to suffer infantry losses.
I find heavy cavalry slugging it out with infantry wasteful and boring, but just my opinion!
Needless to say I usually play the Spanish, Hungarians or Turks.

**Deus ret.** · 08-07-2006, 18:29

Until recently I also belonged to the faction of heavy-cav addicts, just smashing them into exposed parts and trusting that they'd slug it out somehow. Of course that's still a nice tactic and I like to to use it when it's possible; but in the early stages of a campaign (or in certain areas respectively) I usually find myself heavily lacking in decent tank cav, also due to their high cost. so as long as they're too valuable to be wasted I've come to keep them as emergency reserves and do most of the work with light cavalry. Being a stopgap at first, this approach proved to be incredibly effective.
all one needs is light cavalry with as high a charge as possible. then, simply pull off more or less the same trick as with the heavies, but be ready to withdraw once the charge hits (and with light cav like Mt Sgts it's VERY important to charge properly, i.e. in formation, to maximize its effect). losses will be minimal and even if not, the cheap units are easily replenished. then turn around and charge again....the swarm tactic also works perfect with light cav, and they have more charges up their sleeve than knights because they don't tire easily. additionally, due to their speed they dispose of an improved ability to hunt down routers. and once you have gone through a couple of battles with those guys they'll reward it with high valour levels which are easily gained because of the enormous losses they can cause. the only things to be really aware of are 1) better cav and 2) missile units; but the first can be outmaneuvred most of the times until spears or knight are ready and the second are caught quickly.

so what? yes, I also do abuse cavalry since they are my main striking force (and the main makeshift) on the field and suffer above-average losses, also due to my not-always-that-perfect employment....but why worry about that? the next steppe cav or mtd sergeant is round the corner.

**Vladimir** · 08-09-2006, 01:18

Well it seems like you use your horses well. Just make sure you use the right ones for the right job. Don't use your heavies for anything other than their charge and defense stats. Use your lights as you first described. If you use mounted archers/x-bows, try to use them for nothing other than rear attacks and chasing routers. It really sucks when you get your valored up mounted x-bows mangled in melee. The best thing cavalry bring to the battlefield is mobility; use that attribute.

**Kralizec** · 08-10-2006, 21:31

Originally Posted by gaijinalways

I often like to work my cav hard, baiting, looking to catch AI routers, trying to tease the AI out of position, taking down seige weapons, etc.

But often, these are my most depleted units after some battles. I wonder if I don't pay enough attention to them or just put them into too much danger too often.

Anyway, one of my favorite warnings is when I get warnings about constant retreats, thus getting cav units that have lost no or very few members to rout! Still, these units do their job, and if I have a replacement, then I can bring in somebody else.

But how do you use cav? Which do you use?

(I often use mercs, xbows, RKs that I make, some steppe types).

I tend to to be have lots of infantry and rarely more then 3 cavalry units, wich I usually only use for the coup de grâce or if part of my battle line is about to falter and no infantry reserve is available.
However, merc cavalry and indeed mercenaries in general I use agressively and with little regard for their survival rate. Mercs are generally to expensive to keep around for long, and as their numbers can't be replaced you can just as well use them up in one battle.