To chop or not to chop?

[Slyspy]

Its "Cavaliers" in the UK, and "Roundheads" for those that had the snip.

A cavalier yesterday: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/h/hal.../16nolaug.html and his roundhead opponent: http://www.lichfield.gov.uk/heritage.../roundhead.jpg

Observe the headgear...

Of course Roundheads were so named (as an insult by the Royalists) because the first recruits to Parliament's side were mostly apprentices in London, with their close cropped hair. Not because the cavalry worn a round tin hat.

[Grey_Fox]

Circumcision is not mutilation. I had mine removed when I was around 4 or so because it was causing extreme pain every time I pissed and haven't regretted having it removed. It's nothing really, and doesn't cause any harm.

[Lemur]

Well, right, of course. If a part of your body is infected or otherwise malfunctioning, you treat it. The problem I have is with circumcision done routinely to perfectly healthy baby boys. When I have the time I'll link to a video the the Penn and Teller Bulls Hit program on circumcision, since they condensed a great deal of the same research I did into an easily-digested video format.

Although they completely missed out on the whole business of how circumcision got so darn popular in the U.S.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, right, of course. If a part of your body is infected or otherwise malfunctioning, you treat it. The problem I have is with circumcision done routinely to perfectly healthy baby boys. When I have the time I'll link to a video the the Penn and Teller Bulls Hit program on circumcision, since they condensed a great deal of the same research I did into an easily-digested video format.

Although they completely missed out on the whole business of how circumcision got so darn popular in the U.S.

Eh, it's like vaccination really. Prevents infection.

Basically now that people wear clothes the evolutionary reason for the foreskin isn't valid. And with circumcision you're less likely to get a urinary tract infection, std's, and some other infections.

[Divinus Arma]

I think that's it. But knowing my brother and his tendency to make snap decisions based on what's easier without regard to the long term concequences. Would explain why he went for the snip snip. And the doctor probably talked him into it.



I've never goten infections of any kind, not since puberty. But I have pulled it back what I assume is half way and seem what things look like, which is red.

Dear God man. Do yourself a huge favor and Google the word "smegma". Now go to the Doctor. You don't need to be chopped, just a touch of snip to let the foreskin go back and forth. Not even a circumcision, just a slight modification for sanitation reasons.

You are in real danger of eventually losing your penis. This is no joke man.


*shudders*

How the hell did this discussion become so medical? If only I had known it would be so horrific...

[orangat]

Eh, it's like vaccination really. Prevents infection.

Basically now that people wear clothes the evolutionary reason for the foreskin isn't valid. And with circumcision you're less likely to get a urinary tract infection, std's, and some other infections.

No it does not prevent infection. In fact it doesn't even reduce infection because the study is flawed. See my post #28.
http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV-SA.html

Studies have shown no difference in infection rates of stds in modern western countries. The major medical associations in UK, Canada and US do not recommend and/or discourage routine circumcision.

[Reenk Roink]

In third world countries, circumcision is a much more beneficial procedure than in first world countries.

However, even if we consider the study posted above "flawed", many medical studies have shown that circumcision does have benefits, the extent to which can be debated.

http://experts.about.com/e/m/me/Medi...rcumcision.htm

[lars573]

Dear God man. Do yourself a huge favor and Google the word "smegma". Now go to the Doctor. You don't need to be chopped, just a touch of snip to let the foreskin go back and forth. Not even a circumcision, just a slight modification for sanitation reasons.

You are in real danger of eventually losing your penis. This is no joke man.


*shudders*

How the hell did this discussion become so medical? If only I had known it would be so horrific...

I did and smegma is natural and harmless, mostly. It could cause some problems. But that's not a sure thing. Now I have a new project, retracting my fore skin.

[Big_John]

Now I have a new project, retracting my fore skin.

that'd be in my sig, if i were that kind of guy.

[scotchedpommes]

Now I have a new project, retracting my fore skin.

[Not to lessen the seriousness of the subject, but certainly another line I
would never have expected in the backroom.]

As far as my views, I think they have already been expressed by Lemur and those
others who would object to carrying out such a procedure on a baby.

Oh, of course.

[Big_John]

[Gah, delay in posting and I am denied the first mention!]

that's how it works back here, SSNP. i'm the king of the cheese, and you're the lemon merchant.

[Grey_Fox]

Heh, since John apparently doesn't want it I'll take it since I am that sort of guy.

Boonfeck would be so proud.

[Big_John]

And you are welcome to the title, John.

you.. you mean, you won't be my lemon merchant??

[Divinus Arma]

Now I have a new project, retracting my fore skin.

Good luck with your science project lars. You'll be seeing things no man should ever see and smelling things no man should ever smell. Einstein would be proud.

[Devastatin Dave]

That could be a new super hero for the unchopped... Smegma Man!!! Its a bird, no, its a plane, n,o its an infection or possibly a snake wearing a turtle neck, no its, its ... SMEGMA MAN!!! Champian of the stinky winky!!!

[lars573]

Good luck with your science project lars. You'll be seeing things no man should ever see and smelling things no man should ever smell. Einstein would be proud.

I seriously doubt that. About the sight and smell I mean. The day ANYTHING can top the sent of my crap (which is widely regarded as smelling like a corpse that's been in the sun for 2 weeks). Well it will be quite a day.

[Devastatin Dave]

Dude, if you're at the point where you can smell your penis AT ALL, then its definitly time to see the doc. Ewww...

[caravel]

I did and smegma is natural and harmless, mostly. It could cause some problems. But that's not a sure thing. Now I have a new project, retracting my fore skin.

That is true, but if not cleaned away regularly, bacteria and fungus are allowed to build up. Smegma itself is not unclean it is basically dead skin cells and sebum (oil). It actually protects the glans against infection on a normal penis.

There is no accurate study to prove that circumcision reduces infection. Modern science in fact dictates otherwise. It is very similar to tonsil removal, 99% of the time not required. The foreskin, like the tonsils, is actually there to act as an infection trap.

[doc_bean]

Dude, if you're at the point where you can smell your penis AT ALL, then its definitly time to see the doc. Ewww...

Does it count if you haven't washed for a week ?

[Silver Rusher]

Now I have a new project, retracting my fore skin.

The cheese shop's open.

[caravel]

Over the last few days we have all been part of one man's struggle to retract his foreskin...

And now we leave him, voyaging on into the smegma, and boldly going where few men have gone before...

[Lemur]

Gah, it's irritatingly difficult to find streams of commercial TV on the web. Here's a clip from Penn & Teller's show on circumcision; sadly, this was the best I could do using legal tools.

[lars573]

Dude, if you're at the point where you can smell your penis AT ALL, then its definitly time to see the doc. Ewww...

I can't smell it jezz.

[Moros]

Circumcision? I rather not have it circumsised. I like it the way it is.

Btw: I read they promoted it to stop mastrubation in the begin of 20th century? But why would it stop it or slow it donw? I mean it can't be hard to do it without the foreskin can it.

[Drisos]

simple!

the human body is ok like it is.

human bevaviour is not. better change that.

[Moros]

That why I have never behaved human!

[Lemur]

I'm not going to re-create the weeks of research I did on the subject, but here's a little something:

Before the 1870s, in the United States, routine medical circumcision was quite rare, hovering around 5 to 6 percent of all newborn baby boys. Subscribers to the new Victorian sexual morality sought to reduce what critics perceived to be rampant sexual promiscuity, and especially masturbation, which, they believed, resulted in all sorts of debilities and even death. Masturbation was said to cause all manner of emotional, psychological, and physiological problems, from bed-wetting to adolescent insolence, acne to mental retardation, insanity, psychological exhaustion, and neurasthenia.

Circumcision's well-established ability to curb sexual appetite and pleasure was prescribed as a potential cure for sexual profligacy. Lewis Sayre, a prominent New York physician, hailed as "the Columbus of the prepuce" by his colleagues, experimented with circumcision as a cure for paralysis and other muscular ailments. Sayre's colleagues also noted that Jews had a lower rate of STDs than non-Jews, and hypothesized that this had to do with circumcision. (Actually this had to do with the fact that Jews had very little sexual contact with non-Jews.)

Another physician, Dr. Peter Remondino, advocated universal male circumcision since the foreskin, which he labeled "an unyielding tube," left the intact male "a victim to all manner of ills, sufferings...and other conditions calculated to weaken him physically, mentally, and morally; to land him, perchance, in jail, or even in a lunatic asylum." And Robert Tooke's popular All About the Baby (1896) recommended circumcision to prevent "the vile habit of masturbation."

J. H. Kellogg, pioneering health reformer, cereal inventor, and general medical quack also sounded the alarm; his best-selling health advice book, Plain Facts for Old and Young (1888), included nearly 100 pages on the dangers of masturbation. Circumcision is almost always successful in curbing masturbation, he counseled, and he suggested that the operation be performed "by a surgeon without administering anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind...."

[Divinus Arma]

We scorn such idiocy now, Lemur. But people in 100 years will scorn as us well. Imagine when religion no longer causes/contributes to wars? The people then will shake their head in disbelief at our ancient human intolerance.

[Lemur]

Perhaps I should have made my point more clearly -- in the late 1800s surgical circumcision was at something like 5%. After the anti-masturbation hysteria, it became an American institution. This is how it happened.

We may very well scorn such idiocy, but every time someone unthinkingly submits their baby boy to an unnecessary operation (without anesthesia) they're aping it. As I said to my wife when we were having this debate, "Doing something just because it's been done is the worst sort of traditionalism."

[Moros]

Thanks for the info Lemur! really appreciated!