Syria

**Ice** · 08-13-2006, 03:09

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

So we are pretty much back were we started. 1000 people died for nothing just to return to the status quo? Hezzbollah is still there. Its times like these Im glad we have yhen UN

Why do you think the UN acted, strike? No Israeli attack= no new UN Resolution.

**Divinus Arma** · 08-13-2006, 05:39

Here is what I want to know: Why don't we just racially profile? It's not like we don't know who is going to blow us up. All of this "no water bottles" junk is a waste of time. Muslims are blowing up our planes. Does this mean that all Muslims are evil? NO. But the ones that are doing this are freaking Muslim. So take a closer look at the Middle eastern folks just to be sure. And the moderate muslims might just get fed up with the extremists if their rights were infringed upon. I know that if the government started bugging me, if I knew something I would be pointing fingers left and right. Why is this so taboo? It isn't a reduction of rights, its just plain obvious police work. This politically correct crap has just got to go. GAH!

**Aenlic** · 08-13-2006, 06:31

Originally Posted by Eclectic

Here is what I want to know: Why don't we just racially profile? It's not like we don't know who is going to blow us up. All of this "no water bottles" junk is a waste of time. Muslims are blowing up our planes. Does this mean that all Muslims are evil? NO. But the ones that are doing this are freaking Muslim. So take a closer look at the Middle eastern folks just to be sure. And the moderate muslims might just get fed up with the extremists if their rights were infringed upon. I know that if the government started bugging me, if I knew something I would be pointing fingers left and right. Why is this so taboo? It isn't a reduction of rights, its just plain obvious police work. This politically correct crap has just got to go. GAH!

The problem with that Eclectic is how do you profile someone by their relgious fundamentalism? Only check the baggage of Arabs? How will that prevent an Islamist fundamentalist from Indonesia, the country with the largest population of Muslims in the world, from bringing a bomb on a plane? What if it's a Shining Path terrorist from South America? Timothy McVeigh blew up several hundred people. He didn't even remotely look Middle Eastern to me. Do you see the problem? Terrorists can't be identified by what's on the outside. If our solution is to simply profile everyone of Middle Eastern descent, then what would stop Al Qaeda from using terrorists recruited from Indonesia or Sudan or somewhere else?

Then you have to consider our complete inability to distinguish between people effectively. Right after 911, who were the people most likely to be profiled as a threat and receive extra searching? Muslims? No. How? You can't tell a Muslim by appearance. The people most likely to get pulled aside in airports in the USA right after 911 were Sikhs and Hindus in traditional dress. That's right. We thought they looked like terrorists; so they were profiled as such. Meanwhile, an actual Islamist fundamentalist terrorist in a business suit with a passport naming him as Moshe Steinberg could have waltzed right past our security.

Unless and until we have the ability to read people's minds, we aren't going to be able to detemine who is or isn't a fundamentalist terrorist, or any other kind of terrorist. We certainly can't determine it based on race or national origin or the color of their tennis shoes.

**Divinus Arma** · 08-13-2006, 06:46

Originally Posted by Aenlic

The problem with that Eclectic is how do you profile someone by their relgious fundamentalism? Only check the baggage of Arabs? How will that prevent an Islamist fundamentalist from Indonesia, the country with the largest population of Muslims in the world, from bringing a bomb on a plane? What if it's a Shining Path terrorist from South America? Timothy McVeigh blew up several hundred people. He didn't even remotely look Middle Eastern to me. Do you see the problem? Terrorists can't be identified by what's on the outside. If our solution is to simply profile everyone of Middle Eastern descent, then what would stop Al Qaeda from using terrorists recruited from Indonesia or Sudan or somewhere else?

Then you have to consider our complete inability to distinguish between people effectively. Right after 911, who were the people most likely to be profiled as a threat and receive extra searching? Muslims? No. How? You can't tell a Muslim by appearance. The people most likely to get pulled aside in airports in the USA right after 911 were Sikhs and Hindus in traditional dress. That's right. We thought they looked like terrorists; so they were profiled as such. Meanwhile, an actual Islamist fundamentalist terrorist in a business suit with a passport naming him as Moshe Steinberg could have waltzed right past our security.

Unless and until we have the ability to read people's minds, we aren't going to be able to detemine who is or isn't a fundamentalist terrorist, or any other kind of terrorist. We certainly can't determine it based on race or national origin or the color of their tennis shoes.

I expected as much from the likes of you.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

Brown people who look Muslim. That's who we target. And if it means mexicans, Italians, Spaniards, Sikhs, Turkmen, Mongols, Native Americans, etc get a little extra attention, then so be it. I'm not talking about an anal probe here. Just extra attention. Why on earth are we pulling 50 yr old obese ladies to the side? HELLOOOOOO?

As for McVeigh and other domestic terrorists: I'm sorry but get real. That happens, but we don't have nearly the same problem with angry americans as we do with muslim jihadists.

I understand your whole perspective of "apparent" equality and civil rights, but the current policy is just stupid.

**Ice** · 08-13-2006, 06:50

Originally Posted by Eclectic

Brown people who look Muslim. That's who we target. And if it means mexicans, Italians, Spaniards, Sikhs, Turkmen, Mongols, Native Americans, etc get a little extra attention, then so be it. I'm not talking about an anal probe here. Just extra attention. Why on earth are we pulling 50 yr old obese ladies to the side? HELLOOOOOO?

So Pretty much anyone not white, Northern European. That's what I'm getting from you Eclectic. Come on man, that's just disgraceful.

**Divinus Arma** · 08-13-2006, 07:08

Originally Posted by Ice

So Pretty much anyone not white, Northern European. That's what I'm getting from you Eclectic. Come on man, that's just disgraceful.

Oh Great. Now I'm a bigot? Give me a little credit man. All I am saying is to focus a little more and not give people a free pass because of their looks, and perhaps, maybe, use a little rational police work in targeting people. Were the British terror suspects last week white anglos? This isn't exactly a nutter idea my friend.

Edit: And for the record: They ain't Japanese, rarely are they black, certainly not maori, not Chinese, etc.

Look, when CHECHEN rebels (Whom are white if I recall) start blowing our planes up, then I would say target whitey cracker nilla milk too.

**Aenlic** · 08-13-2006, 07:15

Originally Posted by Eclectic

Oh Great. Now I'm a bigot? Give me a little credit man. All I am saying is to focus a little more and not give people a free pass because of their looks, and perhaps, maybe, use a little rational police work in targeting people. Were the British terror suspects last week white anglos? This isn't exactly a nutter idea my friend.

If the shoe fits.

I'll lay good odds that the British terror suspects from this last week look as white as anyone else in Europe who isn't blone-haired and blue-eyed. They are Pakistani in origin for the most part. They aren't dark-skinned, like you seem to assume is some kind of genetic marker for being a Muslim. You're beginning to sound disturbingly like PanzerJager. Why not just profile everyone who isn't blonde-haired and blue-eyed, Eclectic? That's what you really mean when you follow your logic to its conclusion.

**Banquo's Ghost** · 08-13-2006, 08:55

Originally Posted by Eclectic

Oh Great. Now I'm a bigot? Give me a little credit man. All I am saying is to focus a little more and not give people a free pass because of their looks, and perhaps, maybe, use a little rational police work in targeting people. Were the British terror suspects last week white anglos? This isn't exactly a nutter idea my friend.

Actually, at least one of the suspects is 'anglo' - white, middle class and a convert.

Link

Originally Posted by BBC

Abdul Waheed, 21, was arrested at a house in Hepplewhite Close, High Wycombe.

He had changed his name from Don Stewart-Whyte about six months previously, according to neighbours.

Perhaps American security measures don't profile passengers, but European airports do. Racial profiling is very low on the list (as it doesn't really work) but one sees it all the time if you travel - those dressed in traditional garb are more often pulled over for questioning than white Europeans. Sadly, we have a long history of racism over this side of the pond and it doesn't fade away easily amongst the plods.

The real work however, is done through behavioural profiling honed over years of experience with drug smugglers, organised crime and yes, terrorists. You see, Al-Queda and the US didn't invent terrorism in 2001, we have been living with various forms for many years. A Basque, or Irishman, or Italian communist looks much the same if he is a normal citizen or a terrorist. Racial profiling doesn't help a jot.

What does help is observing the behavioural patterns of someone intent on a criminal act. Whilst it is possible to train out these behaviours, it is expensive and technically skilled.

A lot of the basic work at airports is to consider carefully who is coming through, match it to previous intelligence and watch. Effective security and intelligence work is low-key, diligent and unspectacular.

I would be surprised (but not greatly) if US airport security didn't already profile in the manner I described. Pulling over people who 'look Muslim'

in public view of the gallery achieves only the satisfaction of racial/religious stereotypes.

And now I'm off to the airport for a quick jaunt. Quick...erm. Well, I've got my plastic bag and I look real good naked

EDIT: Just saw Ser's post - feel free to move this to the other thread.

**JimBob** · 08-13-2006, 07:21

This is why. Clockwise tell me who is a Muslim, Jew, Christian. Who is Palestinian, Isreali, American. Who is Fatah, who will be joining the IDF in a year, and who is going to become a Rabbi.

Who here is a Muslim, Jew, Christian. A Palestinian, Isreali, American. Who is a member of 'the organizations' and has been arrested for it, who has friends who have commited unspeakable acts at checkpoints, who has had neighbor's houses bombed.