Sweboz armies

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

Well, i hust had a battle with a Sweboz army and this was probably my worst ever battle in RTW. Those Germans just would rout. It was ridiculous.

I am playing as the Romans. I has an army of 9 early principes, 1 Rorarii, 3 triarii, 3 accensi, 1 leves, 2 equites and 1 general. I arranged the infrantry in a nice solid line, rorarii as reserve, triarii on the right (phalanx off), missile troops on the front, cavalry on the left. The Germans ha a full army of mostly light units, with a 5-star general and a couple heavy units.

I had the accensi and leves unload everything on the Germans. Then moved up my line. The Germans started attacking so i stopped them and set them on guard and fire at will. The triarii moved right and front to lure some troops away. The lines contact and i move my cav to their rear. I wait for my inf to get some kills on the Germans then i charge (3 cav units that's it) at a light inf unit at the extreme right of the German line which was at about 75% at that time. The charge brings them down to about 50% but nothing happens. I retreat and charge again. Nothing. They just didn't rout. They do so after they have reached at about 20% or even less, while my equites were down to about 30 out of 50 each. My 3 triarii lured away 4 units including their general and they were taking casualties fast. I decide to send one unit of equites to charge the back of a lugoae unit and rout them. Now, I have done that countless times against the Aedui and these units rout almost they moment they are hit if they have some casualties accumulated. Meanwhile the German center is hurting mine badly so i decide to move my cav to my right and rout the left german flank so that my right flank is free to flank the german center. I charge and the same thing happens. Huge casualties on the cav until the enemy unit routs. My right flank hits the german center. Still nothing happens. I decide to rush my missile units (withdrawn previously on the back) to the center as backup. I charge with my half strength general and equites the center, fully expecting it to rout at least one unit of framaeharnoz (sp is wrong i know) but instead the horsemen are bogged down and my general is killed. That makes a couple units of badly beaten principes in the centre (about 50% strength) to rout. WTF i say. After that the result was determined. Atr some point i had 4 principes, 2 accensi and the leves fighting a surrounded framaeharnoz unit of about 12 men. They were impetuous!! They fought to the last man still on impetuous!!! Honestly, this is bollocks.

[Fondor_Yards]

Rome didn't conuqer Germania for a reason. What settings were you playing on? And what units did you give them? I find the german easy to beat, 3-4 missile units can give them huge losses before the lines even meet.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

VH campaign, M battles, as suggested by EB.

[Fondor_Yards]

What units did they have? Their general units are pretty strong, as are a few others. Also, chances are that they all had at least 3 exp since germania only seems to build the temple that gives them that bonus.

[Sdragon]

Maybe their general had a tone of moral bonuses. Since they don’t show up in the general’s quick stat list (Command/Management/influence) you'll have to go looking for them. They can make a big difference if they have a tone of them. Never played against or as Germans so I don't know how good their generals can be.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

What stroke me as very strange is how long it took even for enemy light infrantry units to rout. When I fight against the Aedui, even against full stacks with good generals (a had a crushing victory against a 7-star aedui general in my current campaign) some enemy units rout even before the lines contant, especially if i concentrate pila fire. Nothing like that with the Sweboz. I was astonished at the length of the battle. Something like 20 minutes of hard melee while in win battles in half that time against Aedui.

[Mujalumbo]

Was the general a family member? That'd explain your Triarii casualties. Sweboz family member bodyguards are right fearsome. As somebody explained in another threat, they'll take Gaesetae head on and look around for dessert. They're mean mean mean, and I hope the EB team doesn't tone them down one bit.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Yeah, I'm thinking the general must have had some great morale traits too. Be interesting to see what combination of traits and units he had.

[Antagonist]

I've never played as them, but I've often had the impression that something in the campaign, such as city improvements or generals traits tend to benefit the Sweboz greatly, since they always seem to me to perform far better in campaign battles then in custom battles.

Antagonist

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

The Sweboz general - just +1 morale, 3 stars. A pretty ordinary guy.




The Sweboz army - note that many of the units are light and some not at full strength.




My general.




My army. (This one is usually stationed in Dalminion, though it had to move north since i have 2 armies at Hispania against the Karths. It has more missile units and principes just in case the Getai with their Drapanai decide to knonk on the door).



You can see now why I found it so strange that I was beaten. I am not a bad commander. I usually make short work of anything send against me with light casualties (medium at worst) especially when I am playing as the Romans.

Was the general a family member? That'd explain your Triarii casualties. Sweboz family member bodyguards are right fearsome. As somebody explained in another threat, they'll take Gaesetae head on and look around for dessert. They're mean mean mean, and I hope the EB team doesn't tone them down one bit.

Well, I got him down to half strength by missile fire before the main battle, since he was stupid enough to move and stand in front of his line. Couldn't miss the chance. Much good it did me though. Even at half strength it kicked the shit out of a triarii unit.

[Joeokar]

whoa nice exp those troops have.

[Sdragon]

Yeah the enemy army is quite battle hardened. Just wondering do the Germans have any building that give a moral bonus as well? I know Romans and Greeks do.

[Fondor_Yards]

Yea look at the enemy exp levels, other then 2 they all have at least 4 chevons. And some have up to 6. Thats between 2-6 more attack, defensive skill, and morale to all the units, in addition to general's boosts. That makes a huge difference. General also had a large bodyguard, 62 very good men. Plus 15 of your units either had no exp or only 1. Add to that, your general doesn't seem to have any morale increasing traits. He would be better a governer.

German units are stronger then they look. Most get at least 5 defense from their shield, and have very high defensive skill. I guess you learned not to underestimate them any more

BTW do you know what the black peasant unit is, I'm assuming it's a mercenary *probably one of those german cav units, I think they lack cards*.

[Teutobod II]

even the real life pre-marius romans got stomped by the cimbri and teutons - several armies were wiped out