Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

[Divinus Arma]

Pretty simple. Blind poll, no names shown.

[Strike For The South]

Lets get real. The guy with the turban gets more attention. We would be lying to ourselves anyway. The first thing you do when you get on a plane is look for the brown people. We all do it. Dont lie

[JimBob]

No. What happens when John Walker mkII shows up? While we are giving attention to the 6 people you fingered in the other thread, he waltzs through.

[Aenlic]

Doesn't even have to look like John Walker Lind. If we start profiling Arabs (more than we already do) to supposedly catch terrorists, then the terrorists who do look Arab in any way will simply recruit fair-skinned dupes and have them dye their hair blonde. They'll end up looking like every other bottle-blonde West Coast surfer dude.

Person in first class seat A1: "Nice tan, dude!"

Person in first class seat A2: "Yeah, I was in Maui catching some waves, bro!"

Boom.

[ChewieTobbacca]

Racial profiling is a great way to let your target know who not to send!

[Samurai Waki]

I don't like the idea of racial profiling... But, the changes I would make in the current security system we have right now, is don't profile 80 year old ladies and 5 year old kids. The shocker is, the last time I was at LAX there was a couple in their seventies, who were selected for a random search, and right behind them were 5 dudes, with wicked looking tattoos and two had full grown beards and dark tans, and weren't checked... my first thought was, hmmm.... wouldn't it be more appropriate to check them? and then I thought... Nobody suspects ma' and pa', especially the old man who was wearing an 82nd PIR WWII Vet Cap.

[Mithras]

Racial profiling is a great way to let your target know who not to send!

That's what I think. If we indulge in it then in the long run we'll leave ourselves open to some cleaver sod who choose the 16 year old blond gir who's actually a psychotic maniac

[InsaneApache]

Lets get real. The guy with the turban[i] gets more attention. We would be lying to ourselves anyway. The first thing you do when you get on a plane is look for the brown people[ii]. We all do it. Dont lie

[i] What have Sikhs done?

[ii]No. If I spent my life avoiding brown skinned folks I'd never be able to leave the house. The city I live in has about 35-40% Moslems living here.

[Pannonian]

[i] What have Sikhs done?

Terrorist? Or national hero?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Panesar

[Don Corleone]

Come everyone, quit being a bunch of bigots. Talking about fair-skinned arabs, dying their hair. That just assumes it's Arabs in the first place. We all know that the leading source of terorism is 85 year old women who can't walk under their own power. That's why it's so critical for the TSA to deeply frisk each and every one at security checkpoints.

Actually, there's plenty of rabid jihadists to be found in the Phillipines and in Indonesia.

[Ser Clegane]

You can be politically correct, or you can survive the Jihad on the West. You cannot do both.

How is scanning everybody, regardless of race or color, counterproductive to surviving the "Jihad"?

[Silver Rusher]

Lets get real. The guy with the turban gets more attention. We would be lying to ourselves anyway. The first thing you do when you get on a plane is look for the brown people. We all do it. Dont lie

Most Muslims don't wear turbans, as has probably been pointed out quite a few times in this thread, but it's true, there are a lot of people who connect turbans to Islam...

Anyway, racial profiling for Muslim terrorists is a horrendous idea. As a religion, Islam is probably the most racially diverse of them all. A Muslim terrorist could be any race you can possibly think of. According to the news, one of the people arrested in connection to the failed attacks was a Jamaican immigrant convert. There are even a lot of white Muslims. Racial profiling for Muslims would suggest that they are all genetically similar, which they aren't, quite simply.

[JAG]

Lets get real. The guy with the turban gets more attention. We would be lying to ourselves anyway. The first thing you do when you get on a plane is look for the brown people. We all do it. Dont lie

SAYS IT ALL!

'Guy with the Turban'.... So when was the last time Sikhs practiced any terrorism?!

You start with racial profilling, you finish with simple racism and injustice not to mention alienation of different cultures and people from different racial backgrounds. Racial profilling is the kind of thing which promotes, not diminishes terrorism.

[Tribesman]

.... So when was the last time Sikhs practiced any terrorism?!

Last week , and the week before that ..... I havn't seen any this week yet though

In this context it might also be mentioned that Ibrahim Izzat Al-Douri probably also would slip through as he would not really fit the description of a Muslim Arab:

But he's ginger , that an offence in itself .

Anyhow , instead of the question being ....racial profiling , good or bad ?
Surely it should be ....racial profiling , does it work ?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Question of practicality.

Ideal security would be to interview and search all persons using any form of public transportation or attending any public venue.

This is impractical in resource terms, as well as intrusive.

Lacking the practical capability to question/search/review all persons, what is the best means of focusing your efforts so as to screen the most likely source of danger?

Using "Race" as the primary basis for a threat profile does not strike me as very useful. However, developing a set of criteria that can provide screeners with a useful "profile" should be doable.

Would-be terrorists could, of course, learn the parameters of the profile and then work NOT to fit -- but at least it would require them to up their effort level and expend more time/treasure/talent to circumvent the authorities. I'm not inclined to make it easy for my opponents if I can see some means to avoid doing so.

[IrishArmenian]

Oh yes, the Nestorian Christians are based in Syria. They practice Catholicism but think Jesus was never man, just 100% divine. They are all darker than white people. My Grandfather was born in Iran, and he was a devout Christian, also he could've been mistaken for a Muslim. the point is, not all Arabs or people of a mid-dark skin colour are Muslim. Many Egyptian Christians too. I am also, quite dark myself.

[Pannonian]

Racial profiling upsets the moderate majority from whom we get intelligence, resulting in more recruits for the extremists and less useful information for us. AFAIK we cracked the latest bomb plot precisely because we tried to accommodate the moderate majority and they in turn warned us of suspicious individuals. Doing it secretly doesn't help either, as word will out, most will be upset that you're doing such profiling, and the remainder will be upset you're trying to fool them.

Insaneapache, I live in the city that was bombed last year, regularly going through the stations that were bombed last year. I admit I get a little tentative when travelling by train or tube and there are dark-skinned people carrying bags nearby. But then I remind myself, I am British, I will not let this get to me, I will live as I have always lived, terrorist or no terrorist, and I at least put on the appearance of behaving normally. There are old ladies around who lived through the blitz, who regard this as nothing more than a nuisance, who am I to worry myself to death over this?

[Rodion Romanovich]

Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

What's your next poll going to be - identifying badges for "undesireables"?

I think the answer to your question is quite obvious. When datamining and wiretapping of phones and email increases, terrorists will start making the attacks alone, without any communication at all, and their terror will remain, while the datamining has removed freedom, democracy and integrity from our countries. To use datamining and wiretapping against terrorists is the most contra-productive strategy ever suggested in any conflict in the history of mankind. In fact it's so stupid of an idea with so clear contra-productive consequences, that it makes you think that the real intention of it probably isn't anti-terrorism, but a gradual coup to transform our countries into dictatorship regimes just like what happened in the early 19th century where practically every country in Europe except France and Britain got dictators. This gradual removal of freedom and democracy has been going for about 4 years now, and our leaders have achieved just as much as Hitler, Stalin, or anyone else achievied in 4 years when it comes to removal of democratic rights and increasing of demonization and fear of protesting. So what can we expect in the coming years?

[Banquo's Ghost]

What's your next poll going to be - identifying badges for "undesireables"?

I think the answer to your question is quite obvious. When datamining and wiretapping of phones and email increases, terrorists will start making the attacks alone, without any communication at all, and their terror will remain, while the datamining has removed freedom, democracy and integrity from our countries. To use datamining and wiretapping against terrorists is the most contra-productive strategy ever suggested in any conflict in the history of mankind. In fact it's so stupid of an idea with so clear contra-productive consequences, that it makes you think that the real intention of it probably isn't anti-terrorism, but a gradual coup to transform our countries into dictatorship regimes just like what happened in the early 19th century where practically every country in Europe except France and Britain got dictators. This gradual removal of freedom and democracy has been going for about 4 years now, and our leaders have achieved just as much as Hitler, Stalin, or anyone else achievied in 4 years when it comes to removal of democratic rights and increasing of demonization and fear of protesting. So what can we expect in the coming years?

EDIT by Ser Clegane: last part has been removed to reflect edits in original post

Er....yikes?

[Divinus Arma]

LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix

wanna lay off the naziness amigo? Just cause I wanna cath te bad guys dont make me a ****ing nazi!!!!!

It makes me sick to be called abigot by complete strgangers. youuo dont knwo a damn ting about me. Yes I am drunk and posting but damn. I dont care fi you are a craker, a beaner, a nip, a negor, or a chink. I'll be your friend either way. That crap means nothing to me you arse. I care about the politicas of th matter, namely: are you coming to my country byt millios with nothing tooffer but poverty? Are you attempting to kill mt famiuly? Get a clue man. This never nevr never had anything to do with race.

[Ser Clegane]

I expect these knee-jerk racism accusations to stop.

If you disagree with the effectiveness of "racial" (or whatever) profiling please let us know why.
Simply accusing other patrons of being racist is not acceptable.

[Rodion Romanovich]

If you disagree with the effectiveness of "racial" (or whatever) profiling please let us know why.

Datamining and wiretapping can only catch terrorists who communicate. Terrorists working alone will not be caught. After a few cases of terrorists being caught, they will all change strategy and go alone, which means they can't be caught. Then you're back where you started - with no gains in the war against terrorism, but with one difference - you've made your country wiretap it's citizens, you've violated their integrity, and you've already created the hateful demonized feeling that has in history always ended with genocide. The end result is therefore the loss of something, without the gain of anything.

If you look at previous examples in history where datamining and wiretapping of the citizens was carried out, you'll see that that's something that has only existed in malfunctioning, violent and authoritarian societies - for instance Nazi Germany, Communist USSR, Mao Zedong's China, DDR, Mussolini's Fascist regime and The Khmers in Cambodia, to mention a few. Interesting also to note is that previously to the usage of datamining, wiretapping and controlling the citizens, these societies worked a lot better than they did after a few years of all the surveillance.

[Xiahou]

Datamining and wiretapping can only catch terrorists who communicate. Terrorists working alone will not be caught. After a few cases of terrorists being caught, they will all change strategy and go alone, which means they can't be caught. Then you're back where you started - with no gains in the war against terrorism, but with one difference - you've made your country wiretap it's citizens, you've violated their integrity, and you've already created the hateful demonized feeling that has in history always ended with genocide. The end result is therefore the loss of something, without the gain of anything.

So you're arguing that we shouldnt catch terrorists because they might get wise to our methods and switch? That's like arguing against treating people with anti-biotics because the diseases may get resistent. Besides, they won't stop communicating- without planning and coordination it's impossible to pull off any large-scale attacks.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

If someone is wearing a turban i honestly think it should be checked but not have the guy pulled out and it being called a "random selection". Sometimes i feel like a complete jack*** when saying this