Poll: Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

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  1. #1
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

    Just to lighten the mood ...


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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

    What!!???

    You mean to tell us that terrorists drive black mercedesses? Are you insinuating that we should race-profile Germans!?
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    You mean to tell us that terrorists drive black mercedesses? Are you insinuating that we should race-profile Germans!?
    Actually, I was getting paranoid about the blue Mazda in the background. Let's profile Japanese and French people.

    In fairness, after the Oklahoma City bombing, police were profiling young white men with extremely short haircuts and paramilitary clothing. I remember they caught a couple of guys that way. Nobody raised much of a fuss about it at the time.

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    The Great Lurker Member Joeokar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Actually, I was getting paranoid about the blue Mazda in the background. Let's profile Japanese and French people.

    In fairness, after the Oklahoma City bombing, police were profiling young white men with extremely short haircuts and paramilitary clothing. I remember they caught a couple of guys that way. Nobody raised much of a fuss about it at the time.
    well thats because its profiling of white men
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

    Thank GOD. I'm glad (*edit) western my government is not completely idiotic (Thanks Ghost, I guess the headline alone caught my eye):

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...313135,00.html

    Muslims face extra checks in new travel crackdown
    By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent

    THE Government is discussing with airport operators plans to introduce a screening system that allows security staff to focus on those passengers who pose the greatest risk.

    The passenger-profiling technique involves selecting people who are behaving suspiciously, have an unusual travel pattern or, most controversially, have a certain ethnic or religious background.
    Last edited by Divinus Arma; 08-15-2006 at 18:18.
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    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic
    Thank GOD. I'm glad my government is not completely idiotic:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...313135,00.html
    E, you did see that it was the UK government? Are you moving?

    Well, this just proves how governments manipulate opinion. The article gives the impression that these discussions are new in the UK.

    The profiling outlined has been done for years and years. I was trained in it back in the early eighties. Utter propaganda.
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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

    I still think that racial profiling is a bad idea but I'm utterly mistified about the people here that refuse to accept that 100% of the potential Jihadists are Muslim and that that in tern means we can totally discount the other 58.2 million people here.
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    OMG that means Aussies must be the main suspects...
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  9. #9
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Racial Profiling for Terrorists: Good or Bad?

    A Guardian comment on the subject, with discussion from posters. Article quoted, go to url for discussion.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/...de_moraes.html

    In writing this post I declare an interest. As a British Asian male travelling by air and Eurostar most weeks, I am stopped and searched regularly. Since 9/11 I've noted the frequency of these stops increase in comparison to my white colleagues, and have, as an MEP, taken up the cases of people who believe they have been unfairly targeted. And if you believe that this can be just a minor inconvenience, then ask one of my constituents who was strip-searched because they had been "profiled" - with nothing found.

    However, it is not principally because of the potential unfairness of targeting particular ethnic groups that the current rush to profiling should be resisited; it is because it simply doesn't work - and can be counterproductive.

    Where is the evidence that something which seems as logical as targeting "muslim" looking passengers does not work? In June of this year I convened a meeting of NGOs and senior EU figures - including the EU anti-terrorism coordinator Gijs de Vries - to hear exhaustive research from the Open Society Institute (OSI) showing that the implicit premise that race or religion is an accurate predictor of terrorist activity was a recipe for disaster. In short, good intelligence, community support, good policing and sharper aviation security were needed. Profiling on a large scale was not.

    Alhough it has no consistant name, ethnic profiling has now become a major component of the fight against terrorism in several European countries including the UK, France and Germany. In the UK the proportion of "Asians" stopped by police under the new anti-terror legislation tripled in the 18 months following 9/11. To date, not one of these has resulted in conviction for a terrorism offence.

    Massive data-mining operations in Germany from the end of 2001 until early 2003 collected sensitive personal information about 8.3 million people - but did not identify a single terrorist subject. Other manifestations of ethnic profiling in Europe researched by the OSI included invasive raids on mosques and mass identity checking - again producing no chargeable suspects.

    So where have the relatively small number of captured and convicted terrorists come from? Virtually all have been the product of intelligence-based investigations over extended periods focused on time-bound and event-specific matters, not racial groups or stereotypes.

    By branding whole communities as suspect, ethnic profiling not only legitimises prejudice amongst the general public: it can also engender feelings of humiliation and resentment amongst targeted groups. On a practical level, police and intelligence gained from communities can dry up through lack of cooperation amongst the overwhelming moderate majority.

    Most importantly, profiling may divert attention from actual threats that fall outside the prescribed criteria. Before the 7/7 attacks on London, MI5 had come across the the leader of the bombers in connection with another plot - but had not pursued him because he did not fit their profile.

    Finally, the more predictable law enforcement profiling becomes, the easier it becomes for terrorists to adapt. For example, the UK Government concluded in its report on the London bombings published this year that "there is no consistent profile to help identify who may be vulnerable to radicalisation".

    The solutions to detecting terrorists lie in well-resourced intelligence work with communities of interest. As one senior Netherlands counterterrorism official observed in the OSI research, "community relations achieve results; stop and search does not". Most EU countries were also found wanting in their ability to monitor the effectiveness of their law enforcement agencies. The very secrecy of intelligence gathering should not preclude appropriate monitoring mechanisms.

    Finally, at the airport the existing level of profiling which probably sees me being stopped more often than the now famous "family in flip-flops on holiday" should not be taken to extreme levels. Instead, for example, our UK airports should invest in hugely improving their technology - such as in the faster and more effective screening of hand luggage.

    We must address the threat of terrorism effectively. It is possible to do this by avoiding a policy like ethnic profiling, which strikes at the heart of the social contract linking law enforcement to the communities they serve.

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