Help my economy keeps crashing

[Matheis]

I am playing RTW Barbarian invasion on easy battle & campaign mode and I can't keep my empire from going bankrupt. When I try to build more markets,mines it simply is not enough after about 4 turns some of my towns rebel and then I go bankrupt. Whenmy economy starting to rise the barbarians would just attack me and take my towns.

I was thinking of getting rid of some of the small cities that don't contribute much like the brittania region of londom and the one above it. I am thinking of moveing those troops out and abandining those proveninces then moveing those troops to defend the terroritory next to the franks.

[DisruptorX]

Set up a cycle of letting your cities revolt, then sacking them and massacring the population for profit.

Yes, Rome Total War campaigns are silly.

[econ21]

Set up a cycle of letting your cities revolt, then sacking them and massacring the population for profit.

Yes, Rome Total War campaigns are silly.

No! You don't have to play in a silly way.

I am assuming the original poster was talking about the WRE? I actually think that is one of the best TW campaigns ever, particularly if you tweak it a little (as in Goth's mod) and follow some house rules (e.g. no extermination; no retraining; keeping to Rome's historic borders; I'm tempted to add "no bridge battles"). The first few turns in particular are really tense and fun to manage. Have a look at our WRE PBM to see how much fun it can be:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=60372

The key is probably managing loyalty - if your cities revolt (and you can't retake them), then it does not matter how much money they were pulling in.

To manage loyalty, a useful opening is to shift your capital from Rome to Massilia. This is the optimum location in terms of minimising distance penalties to your empire.

Next, make sure religion is handled. It's easier to give the people what they want - if the majority are Christian, demolish pagan temples and build churches; if they are pagan, do the opposite. This will tend to mean Africa and Italy are Christian; elsewhere is Pagan. If you want to, you can use the chap with the splinters of the true cross etc to slowly make the Empire christian (but the key word is slowly).

Then, obviously micromanage tax rates and arena games to get loyalty to satisfactory levels - often you need low taxes initially, which will cause more trouble in future due to squalor and will ruin your governor's traits (after a while, pull them out - they are doing more harm than good).

Finally, you could build a few happiness buildings. The low level relevant religious buildings are often most use. But I also like arenas or better in all decent sized cities.

Turning to the economy proper, you have lots of options.

Extermination will give you a lot of money, but personally I try to avoid that - it does not feel right and I think in-game it's a bit too good.

You could try disbanding troops (e.g. fleets and foederati cavalry) or some buildings (keep troop buildings only in Rome and one or two other places - Carthage, London, one Rhine settlement etc.). I used to do that but I am not sure it is necessary (it's not in Goth mod).

You need a small surplus to invest in economic buildings. Look at the city details to see what will happen to your income. Often ports seems really attractive investments (one or two are useless, because the port apparently only trades with enemy settlements). Mines are good. Markets etc may help if you have a good sea trade income. Make high return investments and over 10-20 turns, you should find the economy coming round so that soon you can continuously build something in every city.

The guides section of the Org will give you other views and strategies on playing WRE. I'm not saying my way is the only way or the best. But at least it's not silly.

[Matheis]

Ya I am western empire, and I am walking on a tight rope most of my money I have been makeing is takeing over my own towns (who were rebels) and exterminating them. However that money depleted but the money I gained from those towns I have put into building mines and harbors. However i have run out of rebel towns and now am -3000 every turn now I am like -12500 total I still got 1 full legion near the eastern empires western border. But now some of my towns are starting to rebel again.

The question is what should I do with this legion go after and destroy the almani (which won't pay very much) or go after my ally the eastern empire? the barbarian hordes have not arrived yet luckly they are still occupied with the sumaritians. But my guess in about 10-15 turns the vandels might arrive since they have been awfully quiet. I have allready prepared about 6 units of highly trained longbowman from rome I plan to send these by boat to solona cause thats the town that gives me alot of money and its the town the huns/barbarians normenly go after first.

If i ever get more money im going to build fortresses along the northern part of italy and northwest part of the netherlands.

[Matheis]

I wanted to go back to the old pagan ways so I burned down all the christian churchs I found each one gave me about 1000 gold so that gave me about 8000 to start with which was good to build some mines and traders.

[econ21]

Going after the Allemanni is probably sensible from a gameplay point of view. The ERE can wait - they are often targets of the Vandals and Huns, so taking them on early may merely transfer that problem to you.

If you get all of your starting towns under your control and build economic stuff (ports & mines), you should have no money problems.

But with a -12500 balance, you might want to think about immediate cost cutting - scrap all foederati cavalry and your navy. For a cash infusion and to secure your borders, exterminate the Celts, Berbers and Allemanni; maybe scrap a few low grade training buildings.

I can't see scrapping churches as cost effective - it will cause loyalty problems and you'll presumably have to spend more to build pagan alternatives. But maybe I'm missing something.

[Matheis]

*****UPDATE*****

My economy is rising im getting 4000-4600 gold a turn cause I had built up spain with highways,mines,ports and tradeing outpost. I found out that spain is rich in resources so I built up the economy there which has helped me.

I have been moveing my full legion to the east I was going to attack the ERE city that was on the far west side next to mine it was owned by eastern romen empire however before I got there the huns destroyed it and stole the booty.

It was then I sensed the huns would make me next on its menu so I put my FULL legion led by 3 generals across the bridge north of that town (don't remember the name of it)

meanwhile the Huns see me do that so they declare war the huns had 6 & half full legions vs 1 full legion the odds was 50 to 10. Senseing a possible defeat I built a fort across this bridge. The huns did not want to attack. so they started heading south to solona I hurried and rushed some emergency troops led by a general who could attack at night i had him build a fortress south of the bridge putting the huns in a trap.

however this new legion to the south was not as full it was about half full so I hired all the availble mercenarys in the area. 3 turns earlyer I had rushed about 7 fully trained +bonus longbow man archers from rome shipped them to solona.

I lour the huns to attack my north legion they move up so then i move my south legion ambush them at night time kill about 2 of there family members in a night time ambush attack. I ambushed and destroyed 2 of there legions in night time ambushs. So 4 & 1/2 hun legions was left.

Then the fun starts the bulk of the huns attack the bridge which includes 5 of there family member 2 of them the faction leader and the heir. I hold them off across the river i also had about 6 archer units in my north legion not as well trained but still good. The huns started attacking then my reinforcements arrived from the south I had enclosed the enemy on the bridge and slaughterd 2 whole legions and over half of there family. 2 and half hun legions was left and they only had 2 family members left.

My north legion was getting weaker I still had about 950 men in the end which is a little bit under a half. The Goths declared war on me and attacked my furtherst north eastern town with 5 full legions. I then got what I have left of my north legion and assassit the town which only has like 4 units and 7 turns left I plan to gather at least 4 more units from the west.

Most likely I will lose that town and the goths are going to do some serious damage to me if the vandels show up I will be screwed cause my army is tired and falling apart from fighting the whole hun army of like 100 thousend warriors. I am also only getting like 700 gold a turn I think i might be able to hold out if the vandels or sumaritians don't attack. I wish the AI's who at war with each other would attack each other it would make my job easier.

[Matheis]

here is my plan where I destroyed the whole Hun army who out numberd me 10000 to 100 my north legion started the defense with a barriage of 6 archer units raining down fire then they crossed the bridge and the death trap set place. I put my 2 heavy spearmen units in the front of the entrance and reinforced them with 3 other heavy infantry units and 1 light spearman unit

then I had charged 2 out of 3 of my commanders to reinforce the infantry at the bridge to boost moral then the remainder of my light spearmen & 3 or 4 other heavy infantry was used to defend the archers. Meanwhile I started moveing my south legion to set up a road block on the other end of the bridge.


Right when the huns started dying I had my lone commander from the south legion charge and attack. I had successfully enclosed 70% of the hun army in a big trap of death. The only units that they could save was the horse archers but even they where not safe vs my 2 light calvery and my 3rd commander.

5 of the hun family members died they where all heavy calvery. 1 leader and 1 heir 2 family members was left and i finished them off in a ninja night time raid with my southern legion.

[snevets]

I find your mention of the goths invading suprising. I played the WRE on vh/vh and the goths were next to useless. I think that setting just makes the huns so insane they demolish the goths entirely without contest, making them an extremely weak faction (I never saw them with more than one town or more than a full stack of soldiers, which were easily broken). I sacked two of the cities in gaul because it helped me convert them and they were too rebellious to handle, other than that I initially relied on sacking barbarian capitals to break even monetarily, until I had built up the economy enough.

I think the pointers for that faction are as follows:

-Be a Christian zealot, they have better hapiness factors
-Blitz the sedentary barbarian capitals, this removes your anti nomadic shield but gives you enough money to withstand the vandals if you fight smart.
-Build the economy and the roads necessary to defend against the huns when they come with that money.
-Believe in sarmatians, archers, bridges and night attacks.
-Don't be willing to conceed territory, so the romans gradually withdrew from the north, so what, fight smart and hang on by your teeth. Enemy factions will sack those cities and then they'll be worthless if you try to reconquer them later. Even if it seems a large city is barely breaking even remember its actually helping you alot, since it supports an entire army of troops.
-Try to use hapiness buildings more than garrisons, but remember that you need taxes so don't be afraid to use some peasants (most people find the use of peasants in any situation foreign, since RTW had its own specially intended garrison troops, no the limitanei are not their equivalent).
-Don't be afraid to break your alliance with the ERE, taking their greek cities may very well mean the difference between having three stacks of troops to fight the huns and half a stack taken unawares. Their northern cities will still serve as a barbarian shield just as well as they would otherwise.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Farms are very important to the WRE, they provide a garrantied income without the necesity of trade rights.

People will go on and on about population problems but you'll find that by the time you reach that point you'll be anble to stage races and games to counteract that and you'll be able to afford a large legionart garrison as well.

[econ21]

Maybe it is just the Goth mod, but I don't find trade rights to be a big deal in BI. My WRE is raking in vast amounts in sea trade and yet seems to have no one to trade with (being at war with almost everyone). I assumed trading with your own ports is profitable, but I'll check.

[Matheis]

*****Update*****

Some good news to report on the battlefront I have destroyed the whole hun army, and the whole goth army. The goths thought they could take advantige of me since my army was weakend from fighting the HUNS but they where wrong.

They invaded my furtherst north east town and plunderd it I came to the rescue not in time however, I still managed to destroy all of there legions. Only this time I did it with night time ambushs and killed 1 legion at a time cause the other legions could not help cause they where not night time fighters.(I had killed them at night time while the other legions was sleeping and resting) The key to victory in these conditions is have a general who can attack at night time you will get a big advantige.

Currently I destroyed the small rebellion and I am getting between 2000-6000 gold a turn. I have control of most of the western empire 2 major factions is destroyed the huns and the goths, I found the vandels they are nearly destroyed from the eastern roman empire. Right now I am at war with the Lumbardi however they tried to set me up in a trap just like the goths did they thought I was weak from fighting the goths and the huns but they are wrong.

3 of the 4 lumbardi legions is destroyed with 1 left till they are finished.

How have I defeated them?

I used a similiar tactic used against the huns. Except I did not fight directly on the bridge this time. Insted the bridge was used as a divirsion"

-I had allready built a fort across the bridge and put in 1 weak mercenary unit to sacrifice
-this bought me 3 turns enough time to assemble a fast army from my nearest citys & hire mercenarys to reinforce my weak army.
-this also prevented them from attacking me with all there power at once.
-allthough the battles where not on the bridge they where unable to send more then 1 legion out so each legion that crossed was destroyed in the field with my superior tactics.

once these guys are destroyed for good the only threat now will be either the franks or the saxons which have been awfully quiet. I got the rebellion crushed and the power to prevent another one.

[Matheis]

this is the map of my 3 major battles 2 of them are victorys so far my 3rd battle against the lambardi (purple) will most likely be a victory if no one interfers or if my final battle will be a blunder.