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Thread: 17th century

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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    CHAPTER 2 - August 1st, 1609 AD
    ...this chapter will affect the events from August 1st, 1609 AD to March 1st, 1610 AD

    There are rumors of the Papacy and Spain having had diplomatic discussions. What the discussions have been about has not been revealed, but shortly after the discussions with the Papacy, Spain made an official statement that all Vatican representatives are to be given free passage on Spanish ships departing from the ports of Lisboa and Sevilla to Eastern Africa, offering also a military cross, the Cross of the Red Sea for noblemen, and 'hidalguia' (lower knighthood for footmen) to those who volunteer to accompany the Papal envoys in East Africa, implying some form of Spanish strengthening of the colonial rule there, even though somewhat decreased naval traffic to the region implies the opposite. In the continuing expulsion of Christianized moors, some 2,000 have now been deported to East Africa, somewhat surprised over being given some benefitial offers of status and land ownage in the region to build up a stronger colony there. Six ships sailing from Spanish ports arrived at the East African colonies safely with only a few dozen casualties from disease during the transport. Some of the nobility in Spain have frowned upon the decision, and have questioned whether the Christianized moors really are a good way to build up a Christian colony, but the nobility generally hasn't been bothered much by the incident.

    The Spanish Emperor Philippe III has also made plans for the creation of a Spanish East India Company, recalling some ships from African and East Indian colonies, but the Company is still only at the planning stage. Many merchants, nobles, retired soldiers and sailors and others interested in the idea have been invited for further discussions about how to control the company. The peace negotiations with the Netherlands are called to a halt when Dutch representatives refuse to accept the Spanish Emperor's demands of ending piracy, claiming they refuse to take responsibility for the actions of individual Dutch citizens or provinces, and that it's a matter between Spain and the provinces or citizens involved. The shipping of some additional 3,000 Spanish troops to southern Netherlands has also delayed the negotiations, but Spain reassured the Dutch representatives that they're there strictly for defensive purposes. After these interruptions the discussions have continued and are likely to be concluded before winter, however a de facto ceasefire has already begun during the summer, which has enabled Spain to begin a recovery of the Imperial economy. It seems that about 10% of the debts will be repayed already by next spring. The locals in the southern Netherlands are not happy about being forced to accept continued Spanish rule, and some have emigrated to England, Brandenburg and Sweden, bringing technology and knowledge to these areas. Swedish copper and iron production, which constitutes a majority of the Swedish export income, has benefitted greatly from this. British wool industry has also opened important factories for creating wool fabric - exporting the fabric instead of the raw wool has increased the British export income. However the remaining population in the area knows it can't match the Spanish troop strength and unlike the Northern Provinces can't use fleet and dykes for defense, and are therefore not very likely to cause any rebellions in the nearest future.

    In Russia, the civil war rages on. The situation has been worsened for Vasili IV by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth entering the war. In april they quickly marched into Russian lands with their army and besieged Smolensk. After having an initial assault being repelled, the Polish set up camp and continued besieging the city, passively trying to starve out the garrison.

    Upon the arrival of the Polish army, most of the Polish troops from Dmitriy's army immediately deserted to join the Polish army. Russian raids on Dmitriy's key farms have also taken their toll on the impostor's forces. With reduced supplies and the loss of his key troops, his army has begun to dissolve. The winter is also approaching, making the situation for his remaining troops, with their lack of supplies, difficult. There are estimates of some 20,000 deserters. In the meantime in Moscow, one of the boyars who formerly was one of the most loyal supporters of Vasili, Prince Vorotynsky, has been holding meetings with many boyars, arguing in favor of the removal of Vasili IV from the Tsar position, and trying to make the boyars accept Polish suggestions for putting the Polish heir on the Russian throne as Tsar. The Vorotynsky lineage has distinguished itself in many battles against the Crimean Tatars during the late 16th century, and could possibly have good support among the 50,000 Russian troops along the Russian southern borders if Vorotynsky would want to use war to remove Vasili. However Vasili's influence over the Russian main armies near Moscow is limited too, which means Vorotynsky would hardly need to actually use military force to force Vasili to leave power, if only he could rise enough discontent among the other boyars. Poland has assured Swedish troops neutrality in the conflict, and the Swedish troops have so far been rather passive.

    In the Holy Roman Empire, the religious conflicts has severed after the death of the ruler of Jülich-Kleve in the northern parts of the empire. The now deceased ruler, being Catholic, has two heirs with valid claims to the region, both of which are Protestants. Upon hearing this, the Holy Roman Emperor Rudolph II has, against the terms of the 1555 Diet of Augsburg ordered his Catholic cousin Leopold of Austria to garrison the fort of Jülich. If the Catholics would lose this key location to Protestants it would mean the entire Northern part of the empire would be a united Protestant front, and it would also cut off the link between the Empire's armies and the Spanish-owned Southern Netherlands. The Protestant League has gained a few more members from parts of the Holy Roman empire, but the efforts of the Catholic League of making Poland and Spain join their pact have so far failed.

    In France, the religious conflicts of the last century have been settled by the tolerant Edict of Nantes a few years earlier. The skilled politician he is, Henry IV of France has managed to calm down most of the Huguenots, but also with his personal conversion to the Catholic church and upheaval of the expulsion of the Catholic Jesuit order, he has at the same time gained acceptance among many of the Catholic citizens, and due to his position as competitor to the Habsburgs been able to gain popularity with the pope despite somewhat Protestant ideals. After solving the internal conflicts, France has been able to improve it's finances by encouraging trade, internal industrialization to decrease import costs, and is now capable of maintaining an army of around 50,000 men. However the problems in France are far from solved. The acceptance shown in the Edict of Nantes grants the Huguenots a lot of influence which limits the power of the French monarch, decreases unity within the country, and arises some suspicion among the Catholics, reinforced by Henry IV himself formerly being a Huguenot and the somewhat hostile relations to Spain and the Holy Roman Empire.

    After the death of Queen Elisabeth I, England has come under the leadership of King James I, giving the power to the Scottish lineage, creating a loose union between England and Scotland. James due to his Scottish origins is somewhat impopular with the English, but even greater unrest is caused by the end of the war with Spain, which has deprived the merchant and sailor classes of their chances of piracy and competition with the Spanish colonies. English trade is however still doing comparatively well after the Elisabethan era, with London being almost comparable to Amsterdam in importance and traffic. The restrictive handing out of higher noble titles has also had the effect of decreasing the power of the higher nobility, but instead made the lower nobility, along with mechants and many others a more influential power factor, perhaps too well united against their ruler by means of the parliament. The Admiral Sir John Hawkins has also given England one of the best fleets in Europe, comparable only to the Dutch and Spanish fleets. While having fewer ships than the Spanish, the English navy has superior, more manouverable ships with more guns than the slower, less manouverable but more heavily fortified Spanish ships that are adapted mainly to boarding action tactics. The English ships with their guns and manouverability don't need a powerful defense against boarding actions... English colonial rule has however so far not been very successful. This very year, the settlers in Virginia were forced to retreat back to England, having been defeated by the local population, at least temporarily defeated.

    There are also events of interest in the Nordic countries. The areas north of the northernmost Swedish cities of important has seen limtied colonization from Swedish and Norwegian citizens, and the area is mostly controlled by nomads. However now Denmark has made demands that Sweden should give up any claims to the region to Denmark-Norway.


    Decisions for Chapter 2
    the answers to the questions should be sent to me by PM, you only need to answer the questions for your own faction. Also remember that you can make decisions about other things than those I have mentioned below.

    England

    1. alliances and non-aggression treaties for the future. Denmark, France, the Netherlands, Spain, the Holy Roman empire and Sweden are all interesting candidates for discussions by PM.

    2. colonial competition, which targets should English ships primarily aim for?
    a. North America, specify exact location more closely (for example try to retake the newly lost colony of Virginia)
    b. India region
    c. Africa
    d. East Indies
    Helpful map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Spanish_Empire.png

    3. the stance on English pirate ships
    a. keep it as it is, it's necessary for English colonial competition to maintain peace with Spain, at least until English economy allows the maintenance of a larger fleet
    b. severe the diplomatic relations with the Spanish by allowing the pirates to do as they wish. This would make many merchants and sailors happy, but could mean a risk of war

    4. the Swedish-Danish conflict
    a. important transports of ship timber from Norway, used for construction of English ships, could be threatened by a war. Try to mediate in the conflict
    b. as a, but instead of mediating offer assistance to Denmark-Norway, specify what type of assistance (send troops, send upkeep for mercenaries)
    c. ignore such an insignificant conflict


    France

    1. should France intervene with the situation in Jülich-Kleve? The incident shows signs of Habsburg expansionism, which isn't in the interests of France, which is squeezed between Spain and the Holy Roman Empire.
    a. declare war on the Holy Roman Emperor and march through the Spanish Netherlands to intervene in Jülich-Kleve. If necessary engage the Spanish garrison in the area, which consists of some 10,000-15,000 men according to your estimates. Specify how many of your 50,000 man strong army you wish to send. Helpful maps:
    http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atl...lich-kleve.htm
    http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...lands_1678.jpg
    ...possible targets include Spanish garrison near Brugos and Antwerp in Southern Netherlands, the fort Jülich and the major cities and forts in Spanish Southern Netherlands
    b. unconditionally send money corresponding to 5,000 mercenaries for a year to the Protestant Union to assist them
    c. don't intervene. If it would be good to intervene it's better to wait until next spring to see if the Holy Roman Emperor's cousin is still garrisoning the fort Jülich, and spring is also a better campaign season

    2. alliances and non-aggression treaties for the future. The Netherlands, England, Spain and the Holy Roman Empire are all interesting candidates for discussions by PM. The Netherlands and England could provide France with a fleet and are also natural enemies of the Habsburgs, which have long been France's enemies. On the other hand temporarily maintaining peace with the Habsburgs could be benefitial for the French economy, which is currently at a crucial stage of upbuilding.

    3. the religious-political situation in France. What to do?
    a. expel the Jesuits again, they are instigating revolts and unrest
    b. improve relations with Spain, one of the champions of Catholicism at the time
    c. make sure Huguenots who exceed the rights given by the Edict of Nantes are stopped and punished if necessary, but also don't deny Huguenots any of the rights they have according to the Edict
    d. do nothing

    4. threat of war Sweden-Denmark and the Russian civil war - should France intervene with either side in either of the conflicts? French farming has been extended dramatically recently, decreasing dependence on Danish food exports, but French agriculture still is far from self-supporting and the food prices could be affected by a war. In the Russian civil war it could be of interest for France to support Russia and challenge the Catholic Polish, thereby weakening a possible future player in the Catholic League. Discuss by PM...


    HRE and Austria

    1. what would you advise your brother Rudolph to do about Jülich-Kleve?
    a. claim Jülich-Kleve for the Holy Roman Emperor to at all costs keep the path to Spanish Southern Netherlands open
    b. keep garrisoning the fort Jülich and wait for the conflict between the two protestant heirs to be settled, with no loss of prestige, as your excuse for holding the fort was to keep the region calm while the heirs discussed the inheritance. However this choice can also be a risk.
    c. try to establish negotiations for settling the conflict quickly, despite the small prestige loss it means
    d. abandon the fort, despite the huge prestige loss it means, to avoid war with France and/or a Protestant rebellion
    http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atl...lich-kleve.htm

    2. what to do about your brother Rudolph as Holy Roman Emperor? He is indecisive and somewhat mad, and could probably not be trusted to handle his task too well
    a. have one or more of the provinces directly under your control - Hungary, Austria and Bohemia - join the Catholic League to try and gain influence there to have something to say while Rudolph is still alive. Specify which of those provinces should join the Catholic League (having the Protestant Bohemia join could be risky)
    b. do nothing, just wait for Rudoplh to die
    c. try to poison Rudolph, hopefully then being elected as the next Holy Roman Emperor quickly. If discovered you wouldn't have much chance of becoming Emperor, but you hold strong provinces around Austria and by approaching the Catholic League you would still hold important power, especially if you intervene in the religious conflict


    Poland

    1. the war with Russia. The besieging force is doing well starving the garrisons, but it'll take 1 or 2 more years before it can be destroyed. The defenses have been weakened by bombardment, but no openings have been created yet. Your infantry besieging the city are ready to form a tabor, a wagon fortress similar to those used by the hussites, against any Russian relief forces, making you able to withstand enemy attacks from much larger forces towards the infantry components of your army. This could allow you to send away some of your troops to carry out supporting missions, sieging smaller forts and cities or carrying out smaller-scale raids.
    a. continue besieging Smolensk with your entire army, conduct the necessary raids and troop movements to supply your army.
    b. as a, but send 30% of your winged Hussars to scout for and intercept Russian troops near the city
    c. as a, but send 30% of your winged Hussars to Dmitriy to cover him during the autumn. The Russians might want to attack Dmitriy before winter, and without your support he is more likely to be defeated
    d. pull back
    e. besiege another city instead, specify which, see map and list of suggested cities in the previous chapter:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:R...Dymitriads.png

    2. reinforcements for the war with Russia, choose one or more of these:
    a. send 3,000 more cavalry taken from the Livonia and Riga areas to strengthen the ability to resist Russian attempts to relieve the garrison
    b. send 3,000 infantry mercenaries to strengthen your ability to assault Smolensk (such a large force would be difficult for your economy to handle for more than 1 or 2 years)
    c. transport 30 more guns to Smolensk to improve the bombardment of defenses, these risk being lost if you're forced to retreat quickly
    d. acquire no more reinforcements, Russia is still a mess by the civil war and you don't need more troops, plus removing troops from elsewhere would leave those lands vulnerable, and finally spending money on new mercenaries would be a too heavy burden for your treasury


    Russia

    1. what to do about False Dmitriy II? Dmitriy has lost his Polish key troops and also several of his other followers, leaving him extremely vulnerable. Even though his numbers are around 70,000, your general Mikhail Skopin-Shuisky points out that the remaining troops are mere levies and have very few guns, low morale and primitive equipment. He advices you to attack with the Russian main army of some 30,000 to 40,000 men with some 50 guns immediately to destroy them and also stand a good chance of capturing Dmitriy himelf along with some Polish troops remaining under his command (which could be useful hostages in your new war), Ukraining Cossacks and some of his levies. He says it would be a major propaganda victory and help you through the immediate crisis with the boyars
    a. follow the advice of your general, he knows what he is doing and you really need the propaganda victory. Afterwards call him home to enter Moscow on your side in triumph
    b. as a, but advice him to bring not only the main army but also some troops from the Russian city garrisons (specify from where, see previous chapter for troop strength and locations)
    c. don't deal with Dmitriy at this time, let the winter make his army dissolve and engage it when it reassembles next spring
    Useful map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:R...Dymitriads.png

    2. what to do about the Polish siege of Smolensk? Remember that the Polish Hussars are of extremely high quality and probably constitute a majority of the Polish force.
    a. send your main army of 30,000 - 40,000 men to relieve the garrison (this can't be combined with 1a or 1b)
    b. send your main army of 30,000 - 40,000 men and also troops from your garrisons (specify where to take them from, see previous chapter) to relieve the garrions (this can't be combined with 1a or 1b) (see previous chapter for garrison strengths of the troops you can command. You haven't got enough influence to be able to control the troops in southern Russia mentioned in this chapter)
    c. send some cavalry patrols to scout out the Polish forces near Smolensk
    d. leave the Smolensk garrison alone for the time being, it can withstand Polish assaults and has supplies for over a year, possibly more
    Useful map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:R...Dymitriads.png

    3. what to do about Prince Vorotynsky? You can choose one or more of these options.
    a. have spies kill Vorotynsky. If it leaks out you were behind it there's a huge risk of the boyars listening to Vorotynsky's friends' demands to have you removed, however if it doesn't leak out, it's likely to keep the other boyars calm
    b. assemble the Duma and invite to more open discussions. If the boyars meet under such offical circumstances it'll be a counter-weight to their secret conspiracy meetings. It would also give you more information about the nature of their discontent. Your newly won boyar friends, carefully chosen for their great ambitions (but before you helped them of limited resources), would stand up for you during the meeting and lower the risks of Vorotynsky gaining much support for any suggestions of your removal
    c. as b, but also invite your cousin and general Mikhail Skopin-Shuisky to come home from the wars with Dmitriy (if you choose 1a or 1b the Duma is assembled after his battle, otherwise he comes home right away). Mikhail with his popularity would add further strength to the pact you and your boyar friends would form in the discussions
    d. join your cousin and general Mikhail in the war as a propaganda action


    Spain

    1. how should the Spanish East India Company be controlled?
    a. the state should own the company and it's ships directly and get all of it's income, except for salaries to the sailors
    b. the state should not own the company directly, but have merchants run it and only take out taxes of 10% of their income. The state should own the ships and have the merchants borrow them
    c. the state should not own the company directly, but have merchants run it and only take out taxes of 10% of their income. The state could provide them with their first ships and allow them to not pay off the ships until after 5 years
    d. offer absolutely customs duty free trade for the Spanish East India Company for the coming 20 years if they can promise to expand to a strength of some 30 ships within 10 years. Help them aquire their first few ships.

    2. if you chose 1b, 1c or 1d, what type of ships should their first ships be?
    a. during summer you pulled back a few ships from Africa and the East Indies intended for possibly joining the Company. Convert a few of these ships from the Spanish war fleet. They could be repainted, rebuilt and equipped with new banners within a month or two and would enable you to send the first merchants before the winter. However this would reduce Spanish war ship strength corresponding to the number of ships you convert
    b. construct new ships, 3 would be ready by late spring next year and about 6 would be ready by fall next year
    c. try to negotiate to buy completed merchants ships from abroad, specify from where

    3. how many ships should be launched in the first year?
    a. send 3 ships as an experiment
    b. send 10 ships right away

    4. the Catholic League claims it has no resources to pay off the Spanish debts in return for Spain joining the Catholic League, but they offer you to join the pact anyway, as it would benefit both parties - the Spanish would get assistance against Netherlandic rebels, and the local rulers near Bavaria with the aid of the Holy Roman Emperor would be able to crush the insurgents within the Holy Roman Empire. The League reminds you that the pact is purely defensive and the members only need to offer their passive support to be members of the pact at all times. Active support however can be negotiated within the pact later as needed, meaning there's no pressure of Spanish active contribution while the Spanish debts remain. They also claim it's vital to join the League as it would demoralize the protestants to see a united front standing against them. However you wonder if perhaps the latter could also fuel the protestants to unite a bit more firmly.
    a. accept
    b. decline, offering to join later "to be able to devote yourself fully to such a divine task when the time comes"

    5. what to do in response to the Spanish trade ship that was lost somewhere in the English channel, probably due to Dutch pirates, during the spring?
    a. decrease Spanish trade and war ship activity in those areas, making fewer travels but in larger groups, even if it decreases the contact with the Spanish garrison in southern Netherlands and decreases possibly important trade
    b. temporarily end all Spanish trade and war ship activity in those areas until your debts are payed off, and during the period only make contact with the Spanish garrison in southern Netherlands in cases of emergency, although this means a risk of mutiny and decreases Spanish overview of the strength of hostiles in the region, meaning limited intelligence being available when such an emergency situation would occur
    c. send a fleet of some 5-10 war ships to patrol the area and search for and destroy pirate ships, however this would require decreased naval traffic in other regions, specify where
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Spanish_Empire.png

    6. the situation in Jülich-Kleve
    a. don't interfere at all
    b. support your ally the Emperor
    c. just pull all forces from your Southern Netherlands garrison together in a single place and have it ready for defense against the French, should they attack


    Sweden

    1. the Polish are now busy in Russia, you could possibly use that to attack the Polish possessions in Riga
    a. order a naval blockade of Riga
    b. march your troops in the Livonia and Keksholm area towards Riga and besiege the city
    c. march your troops in the Livonia and Keksholm area towards Riga and besiege and assault smaller cities and forts to quickly establish own garrisons in the area, then prepare to besiege Riga
    d. do nothing, at least not yet...
    Useful map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:R...Dymitriads.png

    2. the Russian civil war, possibly coordinate actions with Russia by PM. You currently have the force under Jacob de la Gardie and some further troops in your own garrisons. Out of those troops about 30% are infantry mercenaries, 15% are Finnish cavalry and the rest are Swedish infantry.

    3. reinforcements to your possessions in Keksholm (almost same as Karelian Isthmus) and Livonia areas (choose a or one or more of the other options)?
    a. send no more troops
    b. send 1,000 Finnish Hakkapeliitta cavalrymen. These are cavalrymen who fire two pistols in the charge, then switch to cold steel rather than pulling back to reload. They're not comparable to hussars is cavalry to cavalry fights, but very effective against most other types of cavalry, and against musketeers
    c. send 3,000 - 5,000 Swedish infantrymen
    d. send 3,000 - 5,000 mercenary infantry
    e. send some 50 guns to strengthen the garrisons
    f. don't reinforce those areas, instead call some troops back home, specify how many and from where (if you call home some from Jacob de la Gardie's force Russia will see it as you breaking the treaty). You can also hire any of the mercenaries above (b or d) and send to your homelands). This could be needed in case of a Danish attack

    4. the relations with Denmark
    a. accept the Danish claims to the land north of Sweden
    b. decline
    Map: https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y1...NorSwe1609.jpg

    5. roadnet, infrastructure and cities
    a. finance the construction of a larger harbor, and small fortified city near Älvsborg, the only Swedish piece of coast in the North Sea. This will be expensive and limit mercenary recruitment capabilities for a while.
    b. improve the roads from the Stockholm area to Älvsborg. This will be fairly expensive and somewhat limit mercenary recruitment capabilities for a while.
    c. leave these construction projects until later
    Map (Älvsborg's fortress is where Gothenburg (Göteborg) is on the map, the land north and south of it are in Danish hands): http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/sweden.jpg

    Edit: added some maps. I'm afraid I couldn't find any better maps for some regions above... I hope the descriptions attached to the maps will do... edit2: fixed somewhat better maps, edit3: fixed an error under options for France
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 08-22-2006 at 20:33.
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  2. #32
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by Franconicus
    Could you add the names of the Kings to your list please?
    good idea!
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    " Hammer of the East" Member King Kurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    An introduction to 17th Century England

    England in 1607 has just entered the Stuart era. With the death of Elizabeth - one of our truely great monarchs - the Tudor era has ended.

    James the First has come to the throne - due to his mother, Mary, Queen of Scots. He was already James the Sixth of Scotland - a title he has held since the ripe old age of 19 months

    So, in a stroke, he has already achieved a mighty deed - uniting England and Scotland. He is a Protestant - but tolerant of Catholics, despite them trying on several occasions to kill him - the most notable being the Gunpowder Plot with Guy Fawkes smuggling gunpowder in the Houses of Parliament with an intention of blowing the King up at the state opening of parliament. The plot was discovered, the plotters hung, drawn and quartered and the events are celebrated to this day in the UK with fireworks on November the fifth - Guy Fawkes Day. A "Guy" - a dummy made of old clothes - is made before the event, used by enterprising children to raise money with the expression "penny for the Guy" being used then the "Guy" is burnt on top of a bonfire on Guy Fawkes night.
    As an aside - this could be an example of history repeating itself - religious fanatics, bombs, assasination attempts - strikes a chord with troubles in the world today.

    for more on James see
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_the_First

    In particular, his views on sodomy and witches are interesting - and there is much speculation that he was either a homosexual or bisexual.
    His hiers as the story begins are Henry - but he is destined to die soon and Charles. Charles will become King in 1625 and set in train the events which lead to the English Civil war and his execution.

    England is a bouyant place. It is at arguebly its cultural height with Shakespere, Milton, Spenser and Bacon all active and popular. Trade is booming, especially the slave trade. Allied to this is an increasingly strong navy and a growing empire based on trade. In particular, the colonies in North America are begining to grow. Also, the traditional wool trade has been supplemented by the influx of skilled weavers and dyers from europe (escaping religious persecution) who are the base of a growing cloth and garment trade.
    Diplomatically traditionaly we are at odds with spain - but currently at peace and friendly towards the Dutch - but are cautious of their growing trade ability. We are also benevalent towards our traditional enemy France, now the issue of Calais has been resolved. James has much in common with Henry of France in that both have a religious balancing act to do in keeping their kingdoms happy.
    Militarily, the main interest is the navy. The army is seen purely as a defence force or as an arm of colonisation.
    Finaly, I thought it would be of interest to people what the usual view of james and that time were for the general public today. I, as you may have gathered, am particuarly interested in history - but, like most of us I think,do not know much about this time - it sort of falls between the gap of the tudors - Henry the eighth, Elizabeth etc - and the English Civil war. Every body knows about highlights - Guy fawkes etc - but the general scene is glossed over, but yet when I started looking into it, it is obviously very important - the begining of the trade/ colonies approach which would make us the power we were in Victoria's reign when a quarter of the earth's surface was pink.
    Last edited by King Kurt; 08-22-2006 at 15:27.
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  4. #34
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    East Africa? Isn't that Ethiopia or were the Spanish that dis-oriented?
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  5. #35
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    East Africa would be Kenya and Tanzania area in this case, which the Spanish (or rather Portuguese while under Spanish control) held until a bit over a century after the current time of the Interactive, well mostly the coastal areas to be exact. Missionary expeditions were carried out further inland and also into Ethiopia, however with limited success by the Jesuits in the latter area.
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 08-23-2006 at 10:42.
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    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    In case you did not see this coming, I declare War on Poland. This is your only chance to surrender, Poland. After this, I will be a dick.
    Last edited by IrishArmenian; 08-24-2006 at 05:55.

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  7. #37
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Currently awaiting the decisions from HRE+Austria before I can post the next chapter...
    Bopa the magyar, please send your decisions for chapter 2 to me by PM

    ====

    The plot thickens...
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 08-24-2006 at 13:10.
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  8. #38
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Just one question. Finnish Hakkapeliitta in 1609 ?

    No offense, but Husaria would smash them to bits anyway.

  9. #39
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach1
    Just one question. Finnish Hakkapeliitta in 1609 ?
    Hm some of my sources might be wrong, but all of them at the very least state that Finnish cavalry with both gun and melee weaponry was used near Novgorod by Swedish troops at this time, only one source explicitly using the word Hakkapeliitta, the others not denying it but not confirming it either...

    No offense, but Husaria would smash them to bits anyway.
    Yep, I hinted that under Sweden's options above
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 08-24-2006 at 16:08.
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  10. #40
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    CHAPTER 3 - March 1st, 1610 AD
    ...this chapter will affect the events from March 1st, 1610 AD to August 1st, 1610 AD

    Near Moscow the Russian army engages the army of False Dmitriy II. 25,000 Russians, 6,000 Swedish and 5,000 mercenaries of various origin are supported by 43 guns against an enemy army consisting of some 5,000 Cossacks and 75,000 levy infantry with 19 guns. Despite their fortified positions, Dmitriy is unable to withstand the devastating Russian artillery, and eventually charges the Russian lines. The Cossacks try to break the Russian army apart by separating the mercenaries on the flank, but suffer heavy casualites in the process. On the other flank, Dmitriy's infantry tries to envelop the Russian line and reach the Russian artillery positions, but the Russian cavalry successfully protects the cannons and they soon come into action firing into the flank of the impostor's force to extreme effect. The levies on the flank continue their fighting for a mere hour before routing, followed closely by the Russian cavalry. In the meantime the Finnish cavalry contingents under Swedish command charge the Ukrainian cossacks, managing to relieve the mercenaries on their flank but the left flank of the cavalry charge meets surprisingly heavy resistance from the few remaining Polish hussars under Dmitriy's command. As the infantry breaks, the Cossacks and hussars break off their engagement and retreat in an ordered manner, most of them too fast for the Finnish cavalrymen to catch. The casualties have been high for a battle of the time: 3,000 of the mercenaries have died, the Swedish have lost 300 infantry and 50 cavalry, and the Russians have lost 700 infantry and 300 cavalry. Furthermore 8 of the Russian artillery crews have been killed by the enemy cavalry. On the other side, 5,000 infantry and 900 cavalry have died, all 19 guns being lost to the Russians, and 5 of the Polish troops have been captured, along with 400 of the Cossacks and 2,500 infantry levies, however Dmitriy has not been found, perhaps killed by Russian artillery firing into the thick smog of gunpowder during the course of the battle. After the battle the Swedish force, having fulfilled their promise to the Russian Tsar, leave the army and return to Livonia, leaving the Russian main army reduced to 26,000 men with 62 guns of which only 38 have crews.

    The Swedish force, once regrouped in Livonia, quickly took advantage of the Polish being busy with the Russians. By mid-August, they reach Riga after a forced march, and immediately lay siege to the important city. The Polish garrison is however strong - over 500 infantrymen, 500 hussars and 37 guns, with some 2,500 more hussars expected to be nearby in the region. The Swedish force consists of 8,000 infantry and a cavalry force of somewhere between 1,500 - 3,000 men, supported by 18 guns. The siege is complete with the arrival of 3 warships and a few merchant ships from the Swedish fleet, who navally blockade the city to prevent shipping of supplies to the garrison. However it turns out that it's the Swedish and not the Polish that have the greatest trouble supplying themselves during the winter (the garrison has supplies for at least 1 year), as any Swedish attempts to live off the land are harassed by Polish cavalry that moves quickly by forced marches and intervenes with the Swedish foraging raids. Within a few months after the beginning of the siege, the Swedish troops are essentially locked up in their fortified positions outside Riga, and during the winter become dependent on their blockade ships to move in supplies to them from Revala, however they're still able to keep the city completely cut off from any Polish attempts to resupply the garrison. In response to the blockade, the Danish fleet has officially offered to escort all merchant ships headed for Riga past the Swedish blockade. They also demand that Sweden heave the blockade of face consequences. There are some indications of Danish troop movements near the city of Lund just south of the Swedish border, and Danish ships - the Danish fleet is vastly superior to the Swedish - being active, shipping supplies to Danish possessions near the city of Lund, and a small force of 3-5 larger warships heading for Riga. The English king has offered to mediate in the conflict, but no western nation has officially sided with the Danish, perhaps because the Polish food export is much larger than the Danish, meaning a Danish war won't affect their food supplies enough to make an intervention necessary. The year ends in tragedy for the Swedish, as their king dies. He is replaced by the still quite young heir, Gustav II Adolphus.

    In the meantime the Polish have been very successful in their siege of Smolensk. The Polish artillery crews have found a weak spot in the defenses and are about to break through. The Polish commanders have carefully judged the strength of the garrison for the entire course of the siege and are now fairly confident that it does not exceed 2,000 men. The last month has however seen heavy rains in the area, decomposing the ground and making any assault attempt dangerous. However the weather is steadily improving and as soon as the heavy rains have stopped, they are confident that the Polish forces are capable of successfully assaulting the city. Polish troops carrying out the necessary raids and scouting for supplying the besieging force are somewhat surprised to report that they have seen no signs of Russian activity near the city.

    In Moscow, the internal conflicts continue. When Tsar Vasili assembles the Duma, the first hour of the meeting circulates around demands of the removal of the Tsar and accepting the Polish proposal for a Polish regent as Tsar, but soon the talks develop into a discussion about the war with False Dmitriy II. Vasili manages to, at least temporarily, silence the demands of Prince Vorotynsky. Only hours after the Duma conclude their meeting, Mikhail Skopin-Shuisky enters Moscow in triumph, bringing the news of the victory against the impostor False Dmitriy II, and he is soon joined Tsar Vasili in a parade through the streets, however there's somewhat hesitant cheering as the Tsar joins his side.

    In Spain, the repaying of the debts has slowed down by the many undertakings of the Spanish Emperor. Instead of the predicted 10%, only 7% of the debts have been repayed by the end of 1609. Most costly was the recruitment and equipping of 5,000 additional troops, 3,000 from the Spanish Southern Netherlands and the rest from Spain, most of them offered nobility and tax reductions for their families. A Spanish task force of 5 ships sweeping the channel of pirates has also been part in reducing Spanish income (by reducing trade in the Indian Ocean, the Philippines and the Mediterranean however only to a minor extent). The task force engaged 2 larger merchants ships, 1 escaping but the other, with a broken mast, was caught after a long chase. Filled with goods stolen from Spanish ships, there were no doubts that the ship had been used by pirates. The force also intercepted over a dozen smaller ships, but were compelled to let all but 1 go, with lack of evidence that the goods carried by the ships were stolen and not legally acquired from the Spanish. In February, the task force towed the two captured ships to Lisboa. The conversion of 5 Spanish warships for use by the newly founded Spanish East India Company has also reduced the trade income, the Spanish Emperor has demanded no customs duty for the trade carried out by the company, which means their gains will not contribute to the treasury of the Spanish Crown, however this liberty is likely to increase the income of the company and allow it to grow into a full-feathered competitor of the Dutch and English counterparts more quickly. The 5 rebuilt ships were able to set sail before winter, reaching their target areas by late February. In the meantime there is some unrest among the nobles in Portugal, but there are no indications that it would develop into a rebellion at this time. Due to the movement of Spanish troops from the Iberian peninsula to the Southern Netherlands, there are only about 6 tercios (18,000 men) in the peninsula, with 5 more (15,000 men) in the colonies and the equivalent of approximately 6 tercios (18,000 men) in the Southern Netherlands, 1 tercio in Franche-Comté, and 1 tercio in Italy. However most of these troops are of higher quality than most of their foreign counterparts.

    The Jesuits in East Africa report to the Spanish Emperor that according to their investigations the most valuable goods in the East Africa area would become available by invading Ethiopia and establishing a strong base there, while a group of Dominicans charged by the Emperor with the same task claim that the best trade opportunities lie in piracy and trading between the different ports in the Indian Ocean, which requires maintaining naval domination in the area, which might require a larger-scale operation against the Omani Arabs who are (next to future competition from European countries) the greatest competitor in the area. Spanish military advisors claim that an invasion of Ethiopia would require some 8,000 troops for 5 years, then a permanent garrison of 1,500-2,000 men, while dealing with the Omani Arabs would require perhaps 5,000 troops for 3 years, then around 1,000 troops for permanent garrison.

    In France, the king Henry IV expels the Jesuits again, and assembles a large meeting for the Protestant Union in Paris. These events cause an explosion among the Catholic population in the city, and there are riots in the streets. They are quickly beaten down by the military stationed nearby, but not before the riots reach the carriage of the king, who is lethally wounded by a bullet in the chest. The murderer, François Ravaillac, is caught, claiming to have committed the brutal murder "in defense of the Catholics against Henry V's conspiring with the Huguenots against the Holy Church". The riots force the meeting of the Protestant Union to end and the representatives flee from the city, but reassemble in La-Rochelle (the strongest fort of the Huguenots) by the end of the summer to resume their discussions. On his deathbed the French king is able to give his last instructions to the guardians' of his 9 years old heir. Not long after the riots in Paris, the Holy Roman Emperor makes an official statement of claiming Jülich-Kleve for the Emperor, denying the land from both of the heirs. The emperor's brother Matthias states that it is to prevent the deaths of his subjects "no matter their creed, for all are Germans". There are troop movements within both France and the Holy Roman Empire, and the Protestant Union is able to gain more members as a result of the incidents. Holland and Brandenburg (one of the heirs in the Jülich-Kleve conflict), join the Protestant Union. Some 8,000 volunteers from Jülich-Kleve and the nearest surroundings also assemble in Northern Germany, with an additional 5,000 mercenaries rumored to have been payed by an outside nation. In return, while unable to get the Spanish Empire and Poland to join them, Austria and a few other small territories within the Holy Roman Empire join the Catholic League, which has also hired the services of the already famous Johan t'Serclaes of Tilly. Tilly immediately embarks on a project to train a professional joint army of some 5,000 for the Catholic League, later to be extended to 10,000 or even 15,000. Matthias the brother of the Holy Roman Emperor immediately gains much influence and popularity within the Catholic League.

    While there have been few official agreements, most countries in western Europe have had diplomatic exchanges with all of each other, giving little hints to outsiders about who has really allied with who by the beginning of the year. Spain and England have formed an agreement regarding trade, while England and France have decided to form a joint fleet to patrol the English Channel against enemies of either country. There are also rumors that English shipyards are creating ships for the French, while France has also founded an Institute Royal de Geographie and an Academie Royale de Marine, sent a small recon expedition to North America, and made preparations for construction of a French shipyard. A 10 year pact has also been formed between Denmark and Poland against Sweden, however the details remain secret.


    You only need to make decisions for your own faction, send the decisions to me by PM.


    ENGLAND

    1. how react to the imminent death of the French monarch? You currently have 40 larger warships and some 200 merchant vessels, the latter of which are mostly engaged in trade in peacetime (using the merchant ships for any military operations would affect trade). You also have around 12,000 troops in England, 5,000 in Scotland, 3,000 in Wales and 3,000 in Ireland. There seems to be a limited threat of rebellion or invasion at this time so some could probably be sent away.
    a. send monetary support for mercenaries to the Huguenot Protestants if the French get a civil war between Catholics and Protestants
    b. send 5,000 infantry troops to support the Huguenots for a while
    c. do nothing for the time being
    d. use the joint Anglo-French Channel fleet to attack Spanish ships going to Southern Netherlands, temporarily cutting them off from the Iberian peninsula. However a complete blockade of the Spanish is impossible as they are likely to be able to get back to the Iberian peninsula through their possessions in Franche-Comté or by negotiating military access through the Holy Roman Empire
    e. as d, but only do so if the Spanish carry out military actions first
    f. break off relations with the French until you have seen how the possible upcoming civil war goes, which part is the strongest, etc.

    2. reestablishing your colony in Virginia - your previous failed attempts involved a few thousand troops, who through their ruthlessness gained impopularity with the local population, resulting in the revolt that forced them to flee back to England
    a. send 3,000 infantry and 300 cavalry from Britain, supported by 5 warships. They would without doubt be able to establish an English colony near the coast and hold it against the local population, possibly also extending it further inland. If the peace in the Channel remains, the resulting weakening of the Channel fleet wouldn't matter much
    b. don't send any expedition yet

    3. policy for the new colony if successfully established. This would affect which types of citizens would flow to the colony, but also the possible profits from the colony
    a. directly ruled by the English king
    b. largely self-governing and only loosely controlled by the English king as long as they pay taxes and their harbors are open to English ships at all times
    c. as b, but give the colony to mostly puritans and dissenters

    3. colonies in North America and relations to the French. Seeing as the French have begun recon in North America, it might be worth discussing (by PM) a treaty for the division of the by Spain not yet claimed parts of North America between your countries to avoid future conflict, unless that is desireable.

    4. strenghtening your fleet
    a. build 3 ships a year for the crown during the coming 5 years
    b. build 2 ships a year for the crown during the coming 5 years, and sell 1 to France/Spain (specify which)
    c. build 1 ship a year for the crown during the coming 5 years, and sell 2 to France/Spain (specify which)
    d. sell 3 ships a year to France/Spain
    e. offer to sell ships at twice the normal cost to countries that need them badly

    5. send Protestant missionaries to the area invesigated by your agents? They claim that missionaries could be able to carry out their tasks in the area with only a small risk of capture. The unrest in the area is also quite strong due to economical reasons. Regarding their other mission, your agents report that they haven't seen much regularity in the movement, but that at least 1-3 transports per year seem to be the usual
    a. yes, send missionaries
    b. no, don't send any


    FRANCE

    1. who should act as guardian for your son if/when your wounds kill you (this is the person you will play as until the heir is old enough)?
    a. the French queen, Marie de Médici
    b. Sully, your economical who helped you with tax politics and reclaiming land earlier lost from the crown to nobles, he is a Huguenot which might anger the Catholic population, on the other hand it is already angered and more unrest seems imminent
    c. Laffemas, your other economical advisor, important for French trade and silk production
    d. César de Bourbon, Duke of Vendôme, an illegitimate son of Henry IV's earlier marriage, but old enough to rule without guardian

    2. would you like your heir to be sent abroad to be protected from further Catholic unrest in France? You could discuss this by PM with one of your allies that you trust the most. This would keep the heir completely safe from the Catholics (but not from the ruler of the country you keep him in), but it's also possible that France will be safe enough in the nearest future

    3. what to do about the Catholic unrest? The riots have ended for now, but more Catholic unrest is likely if open cooperation with Protestants continues
    a. advice the guardians of your son to fight the Catholics together with the Huguenots, trying to establish France as officially a Protestant nation but that tolerates the Catholics as long as they stay calm
    b. as a, and also continue the meeting with the Protestant Union in Paris as a demonstration of strength and a bit of a provocation
    c. as b, but hold the meeting in La Rochelle safe and away from Catholic unrest
    d. advice the guardians of your heir to instead support the slightly more numerous Catholic side and fight the Huguenots, however this would severe your relations with Protestant countries that are currently friendly to you
    e. as b, and officially join the Protestant Union
    f. as c, and officially join the Protestant Union

    4. what to do about Ravaillac, the murderer?
    a. torture and kill him publicly to make an example
    b. kill him without ceremony
    c. imprison him
    d. imprison him in some prison within territory where the Huguenots are strong
    e. let him go

    5. the Jülich-Kleve situation
    a. France must attack now before a civil war breaks out in France. An outer enemy would hopefully strengthen the French unity in these troubled times
    b. France must attack the Spanish in Southern Netherlands to make sure the Spanish don't attack France first. The Spanish garrison there is isolated from troops in the Iberian peninsula and if caught in the open the 18,000 Spanish would be defeated almost for sure if confronted by a force of 30,000 or more French troops, if such a large French force could be mustered
    c. send troops through Spanish Netherlands to Jülich and assault the fortress, then give it to the Protestant Union, only engage Spanish troops if they interfere with this, specify how many French troops to send
    d. attack the Spanish possessions in Franche-Comté trying to eliminate the small garrison there before the Spanish Netherland garrison can reach the area
    e. don't intervene, wait and see what happens. Besides, a civil war is likely no matter what and will be enough trouble to deal with

    6. construction of a French shipyard, where? The construction will take around 2-3 years, however it will have a capability of building 2-3 ships a year, along with ship purchases from abroad enabling you to strengthen your fleet considerably in only a decade. Your current fleet has only 11 warships and 50 merchants, with some 45 galleys in the Mediterranean - a quite modest fleet in other words
    a. Calais
    b. Brest
    c. Marseille
    d. a bit up the Seine (near Paris)
    e. La Rochelle
    f. other place, specify which


    HRE and AUSTRIA

    1. what to do about the Jülich-Kleve situation next?
    a. suggest that the Catholic League defend Jülich-Kleve against possible attacks, attacking any new place would only strengthen the opponents
    b. as a, but also send them money for 5,000 mercenaries for 5 years (this would be an acceptable but heavy burden for your treasury)
    c. do nothing with the League's army, it only has some 5,000 men under training who are not yet fit for battle, just continue the training for another year

    2. it's possible that Bohemia will not stay neutral for too long if the see their right to Protestant faith threatened
    a. recall their right to practise Protestantism, it would show the strength of character that Rudolph lacks. Also suggest to the Catholic League to have the army ready to invade if the action provokes a revolt
    b. no, it would cause a too large-scale revolt for the currently small Catholic League army to handle


    POLAND

    1. troop redistribution. Specify how many troops from Riga or the Smolensk siege force, and which troop types (hussars, infantry or mercenaries) you would like to send where. Troops from Smolensk would arrive at Riga by June if sent right away, troops from Riga would arrive at Smolensk by June if sent right away, and any new recruits from Ukrainian Cossacks (see no. 4 below) would reach either of these places by June. If you wait for better weather at Smolensk (see no. 2 below) before sending troops from Smolensk to Riga, those troops would arrive at Riga by August (ready to attack at the beginning of next chapter). If you get Smolensk through assault or diplomacy any troops sent from Smolensk would arrive at Riga by July.

    2. siege of Smolensk. The enemy is weakened by disease, lack of supplies, and the fact that their defenses are about to break. You also have a quite strong infantry contingent for an assault. However the current rains have decomposed the ground around the city. Assaulting quickly would allow troops redistribution to other areas that need it, and maybe (especially if combined with a truce) also allow disbanding costly troops if needed. Your treasury is positive but your income slightly negative as long as the force isn't reduced by some 6,000 men
    a. assault immediately
    b. wait for better weather (expected in a few weeks), then assault
    c. assault as soon as your reinforcements and/or new recruits arrive (in case you made new recruitments or moved troops from Riga)
    d. wait until the garrison starves completely, probably by next winter
    e. as d, but continue to use 30% of your hussars to scout and intercept Russian forces near Smolensk

    3. the Swedish siege of Riga. The city has supplies until September. You have a force of some 3,000 hussars in Livonia, of which 500 are in the city and 500 have arrived to harass Swedish supplies, the remaining 2,000 being able to get to Riga in a matter of days
    a. try to immediately sally with the 500 hussars and 500 infantry in the city, supported by the 500 hussars outside
    b. assemble all the men you currently have in Livonia, a force of some 3,000 hussars and 500 infantry, and engage the Swedish entrenched siege troops in battle in a few days (this could be a fairly even battle, after all the fake retreat from Kirchholm can't be repeated, the Swedish position is quite fortified and the Swedish have superiority in numbers and in an open field battle also in guns)
    c. raid Swedish supply lines to keep the Swedish ground troops locked up in their fortified positions or force them to retreat
    d. wait for reinforcements, then attack the Swedish besieging Riga by June when the new troops (from Smolensk or newly recruited Cossacks) would have arrived
    e. negotiate (by PM) to give the Swedish Riga on the condition that they accept a 10 year truce, in return Poland will break off their pact with Denmark

    3. troop recruitment
    a. recruit up to 2,000 Ukrainian Cossacks, these could be sent either to Smolensk, or to Riga. These Ukrainian Cossacks would be hired without salary but a promise to pillage captured areas, something that could be problematic to use near an own city. They're also somewhat unreliable and prone to desert when the prospects of pillage decrease. The 7,000 of your current siege troops outside Smolensk that once helped False Dmitriy II are of this type; members of the semi-irregular Lisowczycy mercenary band
    b. don't recruit any more troops

    4. negotiations with Russia. While Smolensk is former Polish territory with many Catholic inhabitants, any further expansion east would bring you into Orthodox lands, where the resistance to a Catholic invader would be great. Such further expansion would be met by fierce resistance and many local levies organizing uprisings, and could result in the Russians resolving their internal strife more quickly
    a. negotiate (by PM) peace and give up any Polish claims to Smolensk or any other cities
    b. negotiate (by PM) peace on the condition that the Russians hand over Smolensk to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth immediately without a fight. That would mean Vasili IV would keep the Tsar position, but with his limited support among the boyars he would command a chaotic and weak Russia for at least a decade before gaining enough influence and stability to be any threat. If you agree on this treaty, you would get Smolensk by April, allowing you to send any of the troops from the besieging force so it reaches Riga by July
    c. continue the war, trying to continue negotiations with the boyars led by Vorotynsky for making your heir Tsar, despite the unrest in all Russian territories east of Smolensk

    5. helping the Catholic League. If you get peace with Russia or Sweden or both you would have plenty of troops available to help the Catholic League
    a. don't help them yet, if they get into trouble later Polish help could be given to them in exchange for land
    b. help them, specify with how many troops and which troop types (your hussars, your infantry or your mercenaries), and specify from where to take them (Livonia area, Smolensk siege force). They would arrive by August.


    RUSSIA

    1. siege of Smolensk (some of these options could be combined, i.e. scout then attack on the condition that the force is smaller than some specific strength)
    a. scout out the Smolensk siege with a small force of your cavalry to find out the exact strength of the besieging Polish army
    b. attack the Polish force with your main army
    c. as b but also bring troops from your other garrisons, specify from where
    d. leave Smolensk to it's fate
    e. negotiate (by PM) to hand over Smolensk with surroundings on the condition that Poland promise not to attack for the coming 10 years
    f. assemble the Duma and suggest to the boyars that Russia should give up Smolensk to the Polish. If the Duma agrees, you hand over Smolensk, otherwise not
    g. assemble the Duma and suggest to the boyars that Russia should give up Smolensk to the Polish. Hand over Smolensk no matter if the Duma agrees or not. If the Duma agrees, it will look like you made the decision after their advice and they will be pleased

    2. troop redistribution, specify how many troops to take from where, see previous chapters. Your garrison in Moscow has also prepared itself for siege, having assembled supplies for about 3-4 years, and in the process of assembling supplies for even longer

    3. if you assembled the Duma, do you want to try to win favor for a suggestion to recruit some 2,500 East Ukrainian Cossacks promising them to loot Smolensk if the city is successfully relieved or retaken?
    a. yes
    b. no

    4. do you wish to assist the Swedish in their siege outside Riga? You could send elements of your main army or troops from your garrisons, however they would have supply problems unless you could negotiate (by PM) with Sweden to get military access to pass through their possessions in Estonia in their march to Riga. Specify how many to send to Riga, they would arrive by June, ready to assist the Swedish troops in their siege
    a. yes, it would be a very good chance of destroying an isolated and weak Polish force and force Polish troops away from Smolensk and Moscow
    b. no, the troops are needed at home

    5. the boyars
    a. assemble the Duma again (this is already automatically done if you choose 1e, 1f or 1g) to indulge the boyars
    b. send spies to kill Vorotynsky
    c. abandon the struggle for popularity with the boyars, and move your court to Niznij Novgorod, where you have much support from both the people and the boyars (your boyar friends were all from this region). Instead of building your power on influence among the boyars try to build it on local support in Niznij Novgorod with politics tolerant both to local boyars and local workers and farmers. The local population in most areas except Smolensk (formerly a Polish possession) dislike the Polish due to their different faith, and you could against the Polish form a large levy army and your cousin with his command over the main army could perhaps also be convinced to join you

    6. what to do about the Ukrainian Cossack prisoners captured in the battle with Dmitriy?
    a. offer them service in the Russian main army
    b. if you chose 5c, offer them service in your personal army, with free right to pillage any captured lands, but no wage
    c. kill them
    d. let them go

    7. what to do with the Polish prisoners? They are from a semi-irregular mercenary band within the Polish army, and therefore not as useful hostages as you at first thought for pressuring the Polish king, in fact due to their irregular character the Polish ruler will lose no prestige by not ransoming them back.
    a. offer them service in the Russian main army
    b. if you chose 5c, offer them service in your own army
    c. kill them
    d. let them go

    8. what to do about the levy prisoners?
    a. offer them service in your main army
    b. if you chose 5c, offer them service in your own army
    c. kill them
    d. let them go


    SPAIN

    1. what to do about the economical crisis? Your economical advisor is very concerned about your current debt situation. Due to the slowed down debt repaying speed and earlier state bancruptcies and cancelling of debts in the last century, the Venetians who you are now negotiating to buy ships from have for instance demanded their pay in pure silver rather than in the Spanish currency. Your advisor claims that such things are critical because silver can be sold at much higher profit in China where it is considered more valuable than in Europe, and he also advises you to abandon all larger-scale building projects, disband at least 10,000 troops from the army, sell off some 20 warships, and hold a low profile internationally for the coming decade until the debts are payed off. With such a program he is certain that your debts would be gone in no more than 5-8 years, whereas with the current intensity it would take 12-20 years, especially when the long-term consequences of a long time of debt start to show - merchants and bankers becoming less interested in investments in Spanish currency etc. He also says that other possibilities for profit are selling of noble titles, raising taxes, or copying the French system of selling "work rights" (granting lowered tax) for certain professions. However he says that most of the latter strategies would only give temporary income.
    a. listen to the advisor and call off all projects, disband troops, and hold a lower profile. Decide which troops to disband and how to move the remaining troops
    b. maintain current army strength but call off all new building projects, see no. 2 below
    c. maintain current army strength for the time being (due to the Jülich-Kleve situation) but call off all new projects, and prepare to disband parts of the army later if the situation in Jülich-Kleve is resolved
    d. as a but offer all disbanded regiments nobility and plenty of land in the colonies, specify which colonies primarily
    e. as c but if/when disbanding takes place later offer nobility and plenty of land in the colonies
    f. raise taxes, specify in which provinces - Southern Netherlands, Spanish Iberian peninsula, the smaller possessions south of the Netherlands, or Portugal (however Portugal is at this time semi-independent and not a province, controlling taxes more firmly there would require making Portugal a province, which would meet much opposition from the local nobility there)
    ...if you disband troops, please specify which troops to disband. You currently have around 35% Spanish, 45% Italian, 15% Portuguese and 5% Southern Dutch, most of which form tercios. You also have about 500 supporting cavalrymen per tercio you have. Also specify how to geographically redistribute the remaining troops (you could for instance keep Southern Netherlandic troops but move them to garrison the Iberian peninsula etc).

    2. the new construction projects, decide which to continue with (choose one or more of the options below):
    a. cannon factory in Southern Netherlands (specify in which city to construct it - Antwerp, Breda etc.)
    b. modern shipyard in Cartagena, will take about 2-3 years
    c. postpone these construction projects until debts are payed off

    3. what to do about the captured pirate ships? Including the Portuguese ships your current fleet consists of some 60 warships of which most are in the colonies, and 175 merchant vessels mostly engaged in various forms of trade, and 180 galleys (obsolete in the Atlantic but still useful in the Mediterranean where they are also used for trade) in the Mediterranean
    a. commission the captured ships for your war fleet, this would be free but increase support cost for your fleet
    b. sell them both
    c. give the larger one to the Spanish East India Company, however sell the smaller one which is unfit for such long-distance travel

    4. continue pirate hunting? Your Admiral after all reported that one of the two larger ships he encountered escaped, and he suspects several smaller ships not yet seen could be involved - they might just have decreased activity temporarily for as long as your task force was there. On the other hand the joint Anglo-French fleet in the area is a growing threat...
    a. yes, continue pirate hunting
    b. no, send the ships back to where they were to increase trade and speed up paying off the critical debts
    c. as b, but for safety also make sure any Spanish ships going through the English Channel stick together in larger packs, even if it decreases trade there by some 20% (however the Spanish Channel trade is only about 10% of the Spanish income at this time)
    d. as b, but also end Spanish naval activity in the Channel, moving these ships to missions elsewhere

    5. situation in Jülich-Kleve and unrest in Portugal
    a. maintain the strong garrison in the Netherlands for the time being to intervene with any French troops moving to Jülich-Kleve
    b. as a, but also be prepared to march it south to assist the garrison in Franche-Comté if the area is attacked. Specify how many to send in such a situation
    c. remove most troops from the Netherlands and send to the Iberian peninsula, specify how many and which of them. The threat of a joint Protestant Union and the Anglo-French channel fleet cutting off the garrison is too large, and the news of unrest in Portugal seem bad.
    d. prepare to go into the Holy Roman Empire and together with the Catholic League attack any Protestant force making a move
    e. as a but also launch attacks from the Iberian peninsula towards Navarre and France. The French have about 4,000 troops as garrison in each of the major cities along their borders, choose whether to besiege any of them (Toulousse, Bordeaux) or continue deeper into France
    f. as c but attack western France and besiege Toulousse or Bordeaux
    Some maps: http://sharon.e.werner.home.att.net/duvalfrance.jpg, http://www.ucair.med.utah.edu/Graphi...ance-large.gif

    6. the Catholic League. Decide whether to support them in any way at this time (money equivalent to 5,000 mercenaries, send own troops, or just join the League as passive member, or not at all)

    7. proceed with the ship purchase from the Venetians? It could be analyzed by both your Admirals and ship builders, allowing them to start experimenting with the construction of similar ships. Even if the debt remains it could be worth investing in a single one of these ships for analyzing purposes
    a. yes, proceed with the purchase for this year
    b. no, cancel the order


    SWEDEN

    1. the Danish threat of heaving your blockade of Riga
    a. the Danish have only seen a small Swedish 3 ship fleet at Riga, so their blockade breaking force will be quite small, as the rest of their fleet is busy with the normal trade and now also the transporting of troops and supplies over Øresund. Therefore try to surprise the small Danish fleet with your entire fleet - some 8-10 warships. It would be a good chance of destroying or capturing 4-5 Danish warships (they have some 25 warships and 45 merchants in total), but the trick will not work more than once
    b. maintain the blockade only with the 3 ships you currently have outside Riga, and try to retreat if engaged by Danish ships
    c. try to assault Riga with the help of naval bombardment from your ships, if successful you won't need to maintain the blockade and can move your ships to safety, however if it fails end the siege and withdraw your troops using the blockade ships. Specify how many to transport where with your fleet - Livonia, Keksholm, Finland, Stockholm, Kalmar

    2. the threat of a Danish invasion of Swedish heartlands. In these areas, you currently have 200 infantry and 40 guns in the Älvsborg fortress, 5,000 Swedish infantry, 2,000 German landsknechts and 800 light cavalry with 70 guns in Stockholm, 1,000 Scottish mercenaries with 5 guns near the Norwegian border, and 1,000 more infantry spread out over various garrisons - Kalmar and Falun having the majority of these troops. You also have the troops in the siege of Riga and 1,000 in Livonia and Estonia for basic garrisoning. How do you wish to move these troops to counter a Danish invasion threat? The Danish have a force of some 5,000 Danish infantry, 5,000 mercenaries, 20 guns and 2,000 cavalry ready for invasion, with the Norwegians having 2,000 men, mostly infantry, ready, but much larger reserves. The Danish would have difficulties reaching Stockholm through the difficult terrain and without very difficult supply lines, but are likely to be able to conquer quite a bit in the southern parts

    4. hire any mercenaries?
    a. 1,000 German landsknechts, your economy would be able to support these for 5 years without problems
    b. 3,000 German landsknechts, your economy would be able to support these for 2 years without problems
    c. don't hire any

    5. send any of these mercenaries or troops from your heartlands to Riga? It would take until May for the mercenaries to get there, while the troops in Stockholm are ready to go right away and would be able to reach Riga within a few days. Decide how many to send if any

    6. The English offer to mediate in the conflict between Denmark and Sweden. Do you accept their offer to mediate on neutral English ground?
    a. yes
    b. no, the English king is probably biased to the Danish or perhaps even to be considered an enemy
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 08-26-2006 at 19:18.
    Under construction...

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  11. #41
    " Hammer of the East" Member King Kurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Another cracking chapter. I will be off line this weekend and monday - a public holiday over here - so no replies to PM and info to Legio for me until tuesday I am afraid - but feel free to drop me a PM - I promise a swift reply on my return.
    Franc - 2 turns and you get yourself shot!! - I should go for a bullet-proof coach with tinted windows for the future.

    Good weekend everybody and well done to Legio for keeping this large enterprise going so well.
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    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Can I raise taxes publicly???
    If not, PM me and I will delete all posted information

    -Alert-
    Dear customer,
    We in Poland regret to inform you that a small war tax is being levied on any and all grain exports to any countries. We ask for your cooperation as a small price rise in the cost of grain is occuring. As soon as the conflict is resolved, we will lower the cost of grain exports. A donation of 1000 florins (if it is an accepted mode of money) would quickly off-set any war taxes and lower the increased price more quickly.
    Thank you
    Polish-Lithuanian department of Commerce
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

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    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  13. #43
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Alright then, I'm going to turn into a real dick. Is the Patriarch involved in this?

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  14. #44
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
    Can I raise taxes publicly???
    If not, PM me and I will delete all posted information
    yes, but this could affect unrest situations at home The Sejm supports your decision of tax raise but demand that it should only be temporary
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 08-26-2006 at 13:21.
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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishArmenian
    Is the Patriarch involved in this?
    Well, he wouldn't like the idea of Russia being ruled by Catholics, but if the heir of the Polish leader converts to Orthodox faith and seems like he'll win the war, the Patriarch perhaps won't make too much noise, at least not officially. However the local population wouldn't support a Catholic ruler, and there would also be unrest to a converted ruler, however perhaps not as much as to a Catholic one.
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 08-26-2006 at 09:36.
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  16. #46
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishArmenian
    Alright then, I'm going to turn into a real dick.
    Actually, you can't yet know whether the tax raises in Poland are for the war with Sweden or the war with Russia... You could have diplomatic exchanges with Poland to find out which way it is
    Under construction...

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  17. #47
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Is there a way for me to learn how much money I have?

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  18. #48
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishArmenian
    Is there a way for me to learn how much money I have?
    Not as a number of florins or similar, but your economy as able to support your current army strength and also some additional 5,000 mercenaries. The rest of the army must be made up from Russian levies and volunteers, or semi-irregular mercenary bands that have no wage but are offered to pillage captured lands. The latter are not very good for defense of own territories...
    Under construction...

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  19. #49
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    Actually, you can't yet know whether the tax raises in Poland are for the war with Sweden or the war with Russia... You could have diplomatic exchanges with Poland to find out which way it is
    No, me saying "I am a real dick now." was in response to me saying: "Poland, last chance to surrender or I will be a dick."

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

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    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Delete.
    Last edited by IrishArmenian; 08-26-2006 at 21:49.

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  21. #51
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    What the... Moderators, please delete the following posts made by me. Thanks.
    Last edited by IrishArmenian; 08-26-2006 at 21:48.

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  22. #52
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Delete.
    Last edited by IrishArmenian; 08-26-2006 at 21:49.

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  23. #53
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Delete.
    Last edited by IrishArmenian; 08-26-2006 at 21:49.

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    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Double Post, please delete this and the following two.
    Last edited by IrishArmenian; 08-26-2006 at 21:48.

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  25. #55
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Ah, Do I have no flood control? Please delete this too.
    Last edited by IrishArmenian; 08-26-2006 at 21:47.

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  26. #56
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Triple Post. Please delete.

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  27. #57
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    edit by request from Bopa
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 08-27-2006 at 12:06.
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  28. #58
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    My use of german nationalism comes from a pice of writing from 17th cen france which states thay are very nationalistic. It was also an attempt at solidarity within Germany to try and prevent civil war.
    Russia was simply a means to an end.

    Whats more I'm shocked that you have made PERSONAL MESSAGES PUBLIC.
    Last edited by Incongruous; 08-27-2006 at 10:09.

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  29. #59
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    edit
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 08-28-2006 at 08:59.
    Under construction...

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  30. #60
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Why dude stop being so dramatic, I'm not planning anything remeniscent of 39 I promise okay?

    I'll just call off the thing with Armenian, he'll understand okay? No big deal it's such a great idea dude.

    CAN YOU ALSO EDIT THE PM'S FROM YOU'RE LAST POST.
    Last edited by Incongruous; 08-27-2006 at 11:52.

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