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Thread: 17th century

  1. #91
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    I said to all the others that there wouldn't be any more players entering the game after the 3rd chapter, so I'll have to ask the current participants of the game whether they think it's ok before I can let anyone more join. Is that ok? If they accept, you can enter the interactive as Denmark when the next chapter is posted.
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  2. #92
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Oh, I also wondered if I perhaps could join... I just saw this thread and I think it looks interesting. I'd play as the Ottomans if the others think it's allright that I join that is...
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

  3. #93
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Well, I'd let them join. They just have to know their country, and in the case of Denmark, I'd say they chose someone not yet involved in the game. Let them come in the next chapter.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  4. #94
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Here is some research, I have provided some links in many cases rather than just copying the text...

    The Ottoman Empire

    Sultan: Ahmad I



    Heirs: Hmmm… He was succeeded by his brother Mustafa

    Current Alliances: Khanate of Crimea (A vassal state), they had close ties with the French, who later in the period tried to help the Ottomans modernize their army...

    Current Wars: Moldovia Magnate Wars: 1595-1621 (against Poland) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavian_Magnate_Wars



    Rebellions 1609-1648: Jelali revolts in Anatolia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jelali_Revolts
    Possibility of Janissary revolts at succession or efforts to modernize the army


    Economy:
    Areas of economic surplus, above self sustaining bases, were few in relation to the area under Ottoman rule. Such areas focused around an urban centre surrounded by well tilled arable farmland. Populations and population density was huge where substantial rural to urban migration had occurred; famine, conflict and extortion from tax-farms being the main stimulus for this. Cities, as in Europe, were the focuses of manufacture and trade. Ottoman cites had a large out put of goods, where comprehensive guild systems maintained quality at the expense of competition. However, the main source of Ottoman wealth came from less industry reliant goods and raw materials, mainly items from the east such as silk and gems; also the passage of such goods generated revenue due effective taxing measures. In comparison to its neighbours, the Ottoman Empire was immensely wealthy.
    With the turn of 17th century economic difficulties show their signs. Dutch and British Empires closed the international trade routes that pass through the Middle East. The empire begins to shift resources as a result of decline in the economy of the Middle Eastern provinces. This is also reflected in an increasing imbalance of trade between East and West.
    The economical problems are reflected on the coins with the decreasing amounts of gold and silver ratios, inflation. Also influx of precious metals into Europe from the Americas had played a role in the price increases of the late sixteenth century in the Ottoman Empire. Traditional industries and trades which depend on stable economy had a big hit with the increasing inflation. The guilds were unable to provide quality goods in competing with the cheap European manufactured goods. Functioning under strict price regulations to keep the state functioning also had a negative effect on the local economy with wide open boarders of the empire without restriction because of the Capitulations agreements.
    From wikipedia...

    Trading partners: A bit unsure here, but they had close ties with the French, and the Protestant countries (Britain and the Netherlands gladly sold them arms).

    State: A highly centralized state with the Sultan as the supreme ruler as well as being the Muslim Caliph, in addition there are also a number of other officials, the Empire practiced a high level of control of over its provinces and its citizens.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_o...Ottoman_Empire
    Another powerful organization was the Imperial Harem ruled by the Sultan’s mother. Because of this woman’s position she held great influence and sometimes interfered in social and political issues, in some periods in the 16th and 17th centuries the Imperial Harem practically controlled the state through it’s influence.

    Religion: The religion of the leader and most of the Empire’s peoples is Islam, everyone in higher government positions are Muslims, but many are converts. The society is divided by religion into groups called ‘Millets’ which were allowed much freedom in a variety of issues and were under the protection of the Ottoman Empire. The groups were Greek Orthodox, Armenian, Jewish and Muslim. However Christians in the Balkans were not allowed so much “independence” as their Greek counterparts and were mostly unable to arise above the level of peasant hood without converting and rebellions were harshly suppressed.

    Social: Feudal. A strong, zealously followed religious establishment had helped to sustain this and resulted in most official posts, legislations and culture moreover being heavily influenced by the prolific Islamic councils and having strong outwards signs of Islam.¨

    Army:
    The Ottoman military is still in the 17th century a powerful institution comprising many elements, primarily the feudal cavalry forces (Timar), the Kapi Kulu Corps and various vassals, mercenaries and levies.

    Timariot Army: Light cavalry dominated the Ottoman armies and were of variable quality and were equipped according to the size of the fief they had which also dictated the number of retainers that they brought to field. A Timariot was not expected to be armoured, but those with a big fief often were.
    The overall size of the Timariot army in the 17th century probably was around 95 000 men (including both Timariots and their cebelu retainers). They were not a standing army but could be quickly mobilized if need be. Roughly speaking about 45% of their number were from Europe, 25 % from W. Anatolia, 20% from E. Anatolia and the remaining 10% mostly from Syria.

    Kapi Kulu: This is the Sultan’s standing army, it incorporates the famous Janissaries, the six regiments of cavalry (sipahi).
    The janissaries numbered roughly 47 000 men in 1609. Since their start the Janissaries have become unruly, and in many ways neglected their training and discipline and are not as impressive troops as they once were… Though they still have their moments. They were still deadly marksmen, during sieges they functioned almost as Snipers. Massed Janissary charges, supported by a mehter military band, were still used and were usually fatal to undisciplined infantry. (though most European infantry at this time was pretty disciplined, at least the regulars).
    The Six regiments of cavalry each numbered:
    1. sipahiyan – 7,800 men
    2. silahdaran – 1,700 men
    3. ulufeciyan-i yemin – 2,000 men
    4. ulufeciyan-i yesar – 1,400 men
    5. gureba-i yemin – 900 men
    6. gureba-i yesar – 1000 men
    Totalling 14,800 men. Just so you know, these guys were elite troops, which you probably understand. Among these troops the sipahiyan (or simply sipahi) were the most numerous and effective. They were still armoured during the early 17th century, as the Ottomans had not yet abandoned cavalry armour, and fought with lances, swords, maces and pistols (a weapon only recently adopted because it was viewed as unchivalrous).
    The Artillery corps numbered 8,000 men. The Ottomans had many guns…

    Vassal troops: Vassal states were usually required to field troops when campaigns began, I don’t know how many troops the Crimeans could supply, probably not much, but they likely were light cavalry.

    Other infantry: There were also other troops, among infantry were the Azapi (conscripted Muslim men), the Levents (musketeers, recruited from brigands in Anatolia, unreliable), the Sekban corps (Musketeer light infantry, professionals) and the Tüfencki (Musketeers, professionals).
    I don't know of any numbers, but (as you probably guessed) they probably reach into the tens of thousands, with the Azapi being the most numerous. However these guys were paid in cash, unlike the Timariots, their payment was their fief. The Azapi were not professionals but were paid when on campaign.

    Auxiliaries: The Ottomans also used a number of Auxiliaries, not sure about the number, but they were probably hired before campaigns. Auxiliaries were also often used to garrison border forts or simply to fight at the frontiers. The most important auxiliaries at this time were the Deli (Light scouting cavalry) and Arab bedouin auxiliaries in the Middle East (who unfortunately tended to raid the Ottomans as well).

    Navy: The Ottoman fleet has been rebuilt since Lepanto, but that battle has proven that the Ottoman navy’s ships are outdated and has caused the Dutch and others to seize many trading routes in the Far East for themselves thus, in some cases, invalidating the trade routes which run through the Ottoman Empire.

    That's that... and btw... I've got a HUGE army!! Muhahahaahaha!
    Last edited by Randarkmaan; 09-13-2006 at 14:03.
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

  5. #95
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Welcome on board! I`d really like to hear your political points of view. PM me!

  6. #96
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    You're France eh? I'll send a PM, I just have to read through the entire topic thoroughly and digest what's going on, then we'll talk business...
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

  7. #97
    Imperialist Brit Member Orb's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    I'll be posting a Denmark plan tomorrow, if noone has a problem with it.


    'My intelligence is not just insulted, it's looking for revenge with a gun and no mercy. ' - Frogbeastegg

    SERA NIMIS VITA EST CRASTINA VIVE HODIE

    The life of tomorrow is too late - live today!

  8. #98
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    A public statement:

    The Sultan wishes to inform the people of Europe that he will excersize religious tolerance on current- and future subject "people of the book". Any conquered or currently occupied people as well as those under the protection of the Ottoman State will be given the freedom of retaining their religion.
    Last edited by Randarkmaan; 09-11-2006 at 17:04.
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

  9. #99
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Welcome on board, both of you
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  10. #100
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Ok I guess welcome aboard then both of you. You can probably have diplomatic discussions already this turn but you won't get any options of action until next turn.
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  11. #101
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Frenchmen!

    Our country is surrounded by the fire of war. Bloodthirsty Christians are chrazy about killing other Christians, not caring about the salvation of their souls.

    In this age of blood France has remained an isle of peace. However, people of France, We have to be allert and ready to repel the evil as soon as it crosses our borders!

    Louis, the King, by the will of God, returned to Paris to accept the leadership of all troops in France. He ordered the Duc de Sully to allert the army. The government will sent military intendants to audit the prepareness of the army.

    The King also accepted the leadership of the judiciary and administration. Royal intendants will travel through the land to insure that the will of the King is executed.

    Everybody who does not obey the orders of His Majesty infringes upon the will of the Lord. He will be punished severly.

    Vive la France! Vive le Roy!

  12. #102
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    It makes me happy: Franc's annowncments. They always sound real. Good job, Franc for adding a little bit to this game. Good show. Also, keep me posted on the Catholic Meeting. I am a non-parshal 3rd Party and thus, not a Protestan.

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  13. #103
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Well, IA, it is real. While everybody else is crazy about war, I think it is the right moment for introducing absolutism, isn't it?

  14. #104
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    A public announcement

    His majesty, the Sultan Ahmad I wishes to announce his support of the Tsar Vasily V.
    He condemns the Polish for having supported the pretender Dmitrij and for having invaded a sovereign nation to place a puppet monarch on the throne.

    Also he is angered by the inability of King Sigismund in controlling the Zaporozhian Cossacks living within the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. These brigands have time and time again raided the Principality of Moldavia, a state which the Sultan considers to be under his protection, in search of plunder. a thought that has strafed his mind is that the reason for these raids by the Cossacks lies not in the inability of the Polish to control their actions, but in their encouraging them to raid Ottoman vassal territory. A most troubling, but never the less likely scenario.

    Such offences will not be taken lightly and King Sigismund would be wise to halt these affronts against our two peoples, failing this he should expect severe sanctions carried out against him and his country.

    Speaking on behalf of his majesty, Fakih Hayreddin(not a real person), imperial emissary.
    Last edited by Randarkmaan; 09-12-2006 at 20:45.
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

  15. #105
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    edit
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  16. #106
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    To the Ottoman Sultan
    We have full rights to support whatever ruler, and wage war upon any such Protestant faiths. We are also appaled that the Crimean Tartars, allies of your Sultan's state, have viciously raided Zaporojhian towns. We ask that your restrict the Khan of the Crimean Tartars, so that the Zaporojhans may be calmed down.

    All Catholic Nations
    Poland will be sending an ambassador to the Catholic meeting in the Holy city of Rome.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  17. #107
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    The King, Vasili has thus annownced an alliance with the Turkic Sultan. Together, we shall banish the Polish heethens from the land. The Russian people will continyue to live as one nation.
    And, Sultan, Dimitri is MIA, ekspected dead. He is supposedly one of those bits of flesh that my horses' hooves trampled. His body cannot be identified as he probably tried to catch a cannonball with his stomack.
    Last edited by IrishArmenian; 09-13-2006 at 00:09.

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  18. #108
    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Legio I would like to play as Prussia if no one has any complaints.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sooh View Post
    I wonder if I can make Csargo cry harder by doing everyone but his ISO.

  19. #109
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    The Holy Roman Emperor decrees that as of today the Catholic meeting in Rome is underway. We give the opertunity for all Catholic nations to put forth their wishes.
    Last edited by Incongruous; 09-13-2006 at 05:11.

    Sig by Durango

    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
    -Oscar Wilde

  20. #110
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Csar, Poland is taken and so is Russia. Prussia is not a true state yet.

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  21. #111
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    I will send my ambassador to the meeting at Rome! My wish is that the Catholics may find a way to restore order and peace again.

    Csar, I think you could have the Protestant Union or the Free Netherlands. You could also become Pope.
    Last edited by Franconicus; 09-13-2006 at 09:42.

  22. #112
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    OT: Damn... this may get ugly...
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

  23. #113
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    The Holy Majesy Emperor Matthias wishes to extend the position of honour to the French ambassador for the period of the meeting.

    We in the Imperial Government also wish to stress that war is never on our minds, and never will be when concerning a fellow Catholic nation. We wish only that Julich be kept open in order to protect our Spanish Brothers posessions in the Netherlands.

    Sig by Durango

    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
    -Oscar Wilde

  24. #114
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Unfortunatelly the Roman Emperor is not able to receive our messangers. However, our intentions are not secret, so we send the message open:


    Matthias!

    Jülich has a strong fortress, maybe the strongest in the world. And it lies right at the border to France and the Netherlands, a very sensitive area. Therefore anything that goes on at Jülich touches the interests and security of France.

    We were not amused to see that the negotiations were done without consulting France and without consideration of the French interests.

    France does not want to interfere in the internal affairs of the Reich. France does not mind if the road to the Spanish Netherlands is open for supply. However, she cannot accept that the Roman Emperor has military access to this area. This would hurt the stats quo and would be a threat for the peace in this area.

    If you would declare that you do not intend to have military access, you would only return to the status quo we had before the conflict. If you refuse to do it, there should be other guarantees to insure that the interests of France and the Netherlands are respected.

    I hope you understand now that I do not want to do you any harm. I just want to secure peace in this area.

    Maximilien, Marechal de France


    By the way, there had been lesser things that caused wars than not receiving messangers!
    Last edited by Franconicus; 09-13-2006 at 09:19.

  25. #115
    " Hammer of the East" Member King Kurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    James the First of England announces that, in the spirit of religious cooperation, he will be sending ambassadors to the meeting in Rome. Despite the disruptive and seditious actions of some Catholics within our realm, Catholics are free to practise all aspects of their religion and both the great religions of Christendom coexist happily in England's green and pleasant land. We feel that much of the strife which threatens to engulf the whole of Europe may be avoided if the spirit of religious tolerance can be embraced.
    We also wish to raise at the conference the spectre of sodomy which is stalking European civilisation and call on all God fearing nations to unite in the eradication of this perverse and unnatural act.
    Finaly, the calm atmosphere of such a rareified meeting will be the ideal backdrop for ambassadors from our court to meet with their counterparts in Spain in an attempt to begin the resolution of the current problems between our two great European powers.
    The diplomatic mission will be led by Lord Salisbury and will be assisted by Sir Thomas Carr.
    Signed this day September the 3rd 1611
    James the first of England
    "Some people say MTW is a matter of life or death - but you have to realise it is more important than that"
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    My first balloon - for "On this day in History"

  26. #116
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    I assume that there is a ceasefire durig the Catholic Meeting and that every nation guarantees free and safe passage to and from the meeting.

  27. #117
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    His Catholic Majesty the King of Spain has decided that an embassador will be sent to the Catholic Conference, and the main topics he is entitled to discuss are the pacification of the Julich-Kleve issue, economic agreements, military matters except the declaration of war and peace, which is only the Kings privilege.

    Further to this, the King and the Minister of War communicate that no peace with England will be made unless England replaces the damaged ships, the damaged cargo and pays 10% of our national debt in compensation for the disruption that this war has caused.


    In Madrid, 1st of September of the Year of Our Lord 1611
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  28. #118
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Ambassador message in Rome

    We of Poland, bastion of Catholic Faith in the East
    Ask for an alliance of Poland, the Holy Roman Empire, Venice, Papal States, and Spain. We face the grave threat of Ottoman attacks on our sacred lands. We are fighting the Orthodox tsar of Muscovy. However, the heathen Ottomans have joined with the Russian. If the Catholic nations do not act, the Ottoman and Russian armies may overwhelm the Commonwealth. This will disrupt the grain flow into the Catholic nations, and you will lose the swift hammer of the faith, the husaria.
    I implore all Catholic nations to send money for mercenaries to Poland, troops to Vienna, so that they may march to Istanbul, dungeon of the heathen and pagan interest. Ships to crush the Ottoman fleets. We shall free the Serb, Greek, Moldavian, and others who live under the Ottoman boot.
    For Christ suffering, Poland asks this for the interest of all Catholic nations.
    King Sigismund III
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  29. #119
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Sigsmund,

    First you invade souvereign countries, take hands in internal affairs and now that your fingers get burned you call for a new crusade. I send you the sympathy of the French, but that is all you can get.

    I suggest that the conference call Poland to order. They shall stop their agressions and make peace with the Moscowians and the Muslems. Without their silly attidute there would not be a danger for any Christian realm.


    Ambassador of France

  30. #120
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    BY IMPERIAL DECREE!

    THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE WILL HAVE NO FURTHER NEGOTIONS WITH THE SEDITIOUS SECTORS OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH!

    We accept the request of a fellow Catholic and once our forces habe crushed the rebels in Bohemia we will send men into Poland to do the bidding of God!

    To the noble men of France, time and time again you have sought war, supposedly to further you're gains and honour. Let it be said plainly, it will not be done so at the expense of the Holy Roman Empire! If you threaten us once more you're ambassador will be obliged to leave the league of the Righteous in Rome.

    To the Spanish, we wish to moderate between you and the English, we would call on England to call an immediate ceasfire and pay all reparations needed.
    We would also call upon the loosening of colonial laws, such might dampen the fire kindled between you're two nations.

    Matthias, Holy Roman Emperor, protector of the one true Catholic Faith!

    Sig by Durango

    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
    -Oscar Wilde

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