17th century

[Orb]

I'm protestant?

I may have made a mistake...

[Rodion Romanovich]

So has the ship sailed on me joining as Transylvania?

I'm afraid there would be too complex to have any more players than currently. Sorry...

[Rodion Romanovich]

Here's a map for the Ottoman-Polish conflict:

The map borders are very approximate to make it quick for me to make the map, but should still give a quite good idea of what was controlled by who...
- Blue color to the left bottom corner: ottomans
- just above: Wallachia
- above Wallachia: Transylvania
- to the right of them: Moldavia (in red)
- yellow: Polish-Lithuanian controlled Cossacks
- green: the area of influence of the Crimean Tatars
- pink: the Russian-controlled Don Cossacks
- dark pink: mongol khanate regions
- grey and the color above: Russian
- the color reaching to the top left corner: Polish

As for the dots, they are:
- blue dot: about how far an Ottoman army can get before starting to take many casualties due to supply problems if their army is larger than say 12,000 men. It's also about how far south Polish forces can hope to reach with an army of up to 15,000 men. They have some fortifications near the blue dot which are effective for blocking that path
- lower red dot: above this dot, the Dnepr is difficult to navigate, due to many rocks etc. Continuing by land might be necessary, but is difficult as long as crimean tatar and Polish-supported Cossacks roam the land freely here.

The bug river (right next to Moldavia, west of Dnepr) can be navigabled a bit but not all the way to any Polish cities. Troops could be unloaded and then march for either Lvov or Kiev, but again this takes them through difficult terrain for finding supplies if the army is too large.

[Silver Rusher]

I'm afraid there would be too complex to have any more players than currently. Sorry...

OK, fair enough. But if somebody drops out, then would I be able to?

[Rodion Romanovich]

OK, fair enough. But if somebody drops out, then would I be able to?

Yes. Also I might reconsider once I've tried the current number of players for a few turns. However at present it seems like I've reached the absolute upper limit, considering all the simultaneous IRL work etc.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Here's cegorach's version with additional info about Polish forts:

And a shortened summary of the comments attached to the map:

- some borders fixed. Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth recolored. Transylvania and Wallachia moved south correctly, Ottoman enclaves in Crimean Khanate ( Kaffa, Ochakov, Azov) marked, and the Circassians marked with C

Fortresses:
1. Kamieniec Podolski - very powerful fortress, blocked by river on most sides, high river bank, only accessible from one direction, built on rock difficult to undermine

2. Lwów/Lviv - city and fortess, not the most powerful one, but impossible to get easy, in addition it was good supply source for any Polish armies.

3. Zamosc - probably either second (after Danzig) or third (after Kamieniec) most powerful fortress in Poland. Surely comparable to some better Dutch fortresses.

4. Bar - quite powerful. Not like Zamosc, Kamieniec, but rather like some smaller fortess e.g. Czestochowa - an army of 10 000 would have much problems in taking it, considering the Ottomans it required rather 25 000 to be taken after a month's siege.

5. Sech of the Zaporozhian Cossacks. Fortress on an island in pretty bad area to fight - marshess, wilderness, no supply lines unless you take many wagons or have the river (only from the direction of Kiev).

[Incongruous]

Nice, good stuff Legio

[Marshal Murat]

Thanks ceg, legio for the maps and information.

[Franconicus]

Announcements:

Foundation of the SET, the South East Trade Company. The SET will organize the trade within the Mediterranean Sea, Africa, India and Far East. The SET will have the monopole for Silk trade in this area. It will have exclusive rights to trade with the French colonies in India and to use bases in the Eastern Med and the Arabian Sea. One third of the shares can be bought by French traders or traders from Savoy, Genoa and Florence. The head quarter will be at Marseille.

Serfdom: Serfs can buy off themselves and their families from the landlords. A Royal board of arbitration will decide the transfer in case that the serf and the landlord do not find an agreement. Trade companies and the army have the permission to recruit serfs if they are willing to pay the transfer.

Science: Foundation of the Royal Institute of Natural Sciences at the Sorbonne, Paris. The King donates an annual price of 1,000 Louis d’or for the best invention or discovery. Additionally, there are singular awards of 10,000 Louis d’or for outstanding innovations in manufacturing or military or naval technologies.

To increase the happiness of the people the King announces the foundation of the Royal Lottery: Everybody can take part and become rich, even people from abroad. To prevent fraud, the King bans all other forms of lottery besides the Royal one.

[Csargo]

To the Emperor, (I think this is all right but if not just tell me)

I wish the Emperor to call a Reichstag in Augsburg to justify his action in the current conflicts he is in.
These are not conflicts just effecting Protestants in the HRE but all German lords. This is about the rights of the lords of the HRE.

1. Your war in Bohemia is not part of the HRE it is your private property therefore, no German lord is forced to support you in this fight.
Threatening us to support you is a breach of our privileges as lords of the HRE.


2. The war against the Ottoman Empire is just a ploy gain influence and land in the Balkans.
You cannot force any of us into helping you. This is your private war and I wish to have no part of it and I'm sure other lords would agree with me on this.


3. You have never been properly elected. This is one of the most important privileges of the German lords.
I insist that this election is done according to the proper ceremony and done immediately.

Duke of Brandenburg

[Kagemusha]

The republic of Netherlands support the Duke of Brandenburg on these issues. As we are nominal part of Holy Roman Empire,we would also like to proclaim that Netherlands will continue trading silk inside The Holy Roman Empire. We consider this trade as domestic trade not importing of any goods. What is the Emperors stand? Are only Catholic lords true representatives on the Reichstag and the protestant lords are considered not part of the Empire anymore?

The Dutch Embassador

[Incongruous]

My War in Bohemia is my own, yet you have already made it you'rs by supporting these rebels, only pulling you'rself from the fire when it got too hot!

How dare you accuse my holy war against the Turks false! It is no matter for Protestsants but Catholics!

I was made Holy Roman Emperor and have served my people well, you however have only created discontent.

From this moment, I declare Brandenburg a rogue state and a threat to all Germans. I hereby denounce thee as a traitor, you're lands forfiet and you're head to be the property of the executioner's axe.

As for the Netherlands, you already have many enemies, I do not deem you worthy of my time. Thus no action shall be taken at this time against you.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Small note: the Emperor was actually properly elected. Of course however it's still possible in propaganda statements to call him "not properly elected"

Another more practical note: I realize that I leave out a lot of quite central information in the basic chapter texts. It's because including all info that could possibly be needed to cover all of your possible options would make the chapter at least 10 times longer. This doesn't mean that that info isn't accessible, but I will only provide you with that info if you specifically ask for it. For example you can send men to inspect various parts of administration, send spies both abroad and to overlook own economy, production, companies etc.

[Csargo]

I think most of the other Protestant states in the HRE would agree with my statement and maybe even some of the Catholic ones.

[Csargo]

Offer to all German lords in the HRE,

Since I have been claimed a traitor for stating the truth against the Emperor I wish all those who agree with my statements join me in an alliance so that we may rid ourselves of this so-called Emperor. I only wish prosperity for my people and the people of Prussia but he does not agree with my views so he says that I am a traitor. I do not wish war on the Turks for they have done nothing wrong they are just protecting their and their allies borders from raids by the Polish. The Emperor has no reason to make war on the Turks other than for his own personal gain. I plead with you all please do not follow the Emperor to your deaths follow me so that we may force the Emperor to stop his support for Poland and end this unholy war with the Turks.

Duke of Brandenburg

[Marshal Murat]

We in Poland are shocked by such an outburst by the Brandenburgian nobles. This war against the Ottomans is a defensive war. They have declared war, invaded the sacred soil of Poland and her allies, accused Poland's people of raiding her lands, which has not been proven. The Ottomans ally themselves with the Russians, many of whom have accepted the son of Poland as her ruler.

[Csargo]

Duke of Brandenburg,

I mean no disrespect to the Polish King. I only wish to point out that the HRE has no business in the war with the Turks.

[Incongruous]

It is my own war, funded by land's not in the Empire, any noble who wishes to join may do so.

Where is you're justification for attacking me now?
You supported the rebels, you are the traitor. I would have left you in peace, yet you and you're overpowering ambition drive you against me. Thus I denounce you, and will have you're head on a pike!

[Franconicus]

ANNOUNCEMENT

France and Savoy concluded an agreement about economical and military cooperation. Additionaly these two independant states conclude a contract of mutual assistance.

[IrishArmenian]

The Ottomans ally themselves with the Russians, many of whom have accepted the son of Poland as her ruler.

The loyal Russians still have an army, and a large one at that. Accept Vasili as the Czar and there will be peace.
Poland, you just had a small droplet of the untoppable wave of the Ottoman Army.

[Csargo]

It is my own war, funded by land's not in the Empire, any noble who wishes to join may do so.

Where is you're justification for attacking me now?
You supported the rebels, you are the traitor. I would have left you in peace, yet you and you're overpowering ambition drive you against me. Thus I denounce you, and will have you're head on a pike!

I never attacked you. I ended my support for the rebels in Bohemia. I have only wanted to call a meeting if you will to discuss your actions. That is all.

Duke of Brandenburg

[Marshal Murat]

So volitale.

Oh Tsar of Russia, what unstoppable wave of might? Where are the Janissaries in Warsaw?

[Randarkmaan]

Now, now my dear Sigismund, let us spare this matter for the battlefield...

[Incongruous]

Hah! Turks in Warsaw? Never!

As for the Duke of Brandenburg, do not play with me any more. You attacked my private war against the Turks. You called me a false Emperor when I was properly elected. What else is there to the matter? As I said I would have left you alone, inpeace. But you had to have more, power is you're only master!

The Holy Roman Emperor.

[Randarkmaan]

Do not mock me Kaiser! If my memory does not fail me, you 'promised' to lead a Crusade against someone you call the 'heathen Turk' and to 'hound him to the very doorstep of Constantinople'. I fail to see how you will ever achieve that, not with all the internal squabbling that so characterizes your pitiful rule.

Fare well, and may peace be upon you.

[Marshal Murat]

God I love this thread!!!

[IrishArmenian]

The unstoppable wave is mustering its forces. All of at least 68000 of them. Many guns and feerce troops. Better horsemen than your Hussaria, and more disiplined. The jannisaries will come, and when the looting of Warsaw begins, hide your loved ones... at leest the women.
Now, Holy Roman Emperor, I see now business in this for you. We can divide Poland as soon as it is fallen. What do you get out of this, a pat on the back?
Join us, and Brandenburg will once again be kind and peeceful, while all the German peoples unite agenst the Polish filth! Their land shood and can be yours!
-The Tsar.

[Incongruous]

Do not toy with me pretender!

I am no fool! The Turks shall be driven from Europa not by mighty armies, but by the good christians of these lands, wishing once more to be under the Christian wing. Not the Islamic Yoke!
You're men shall fear the night, as demons fear day! Every movemnt will be the freedom fighter, looking to avenge the ravaging of his Christian daughter, by heathen Turks! Every Christian slain, is but one more angel to aid us. Every Heathen, lying foraken in the dust, is but one more sing, that God wills us to fight!
GOD WILLS IT!

The Holy Roman Emperor.

[IrishArmenian]

Beleeve you me, Russia is still a Christian Nashun. Let it be known, that religious tolerance is the key here. It has done wonders for France and the Ottoman Empire. All sorts of people live in those nashuns, but they do not clame to live under the Moslem/Catholic/Protestant Yoke.
And, I remember a certen Holy Roman Emperor pledging his loyalty to me, but I guess this was not so, as he soon joined my enemy. What is this? Will he turn his back on Poland in a time of need?

[Incongruous]

Loyalty! To you!
I have never heard of such blatant lies, how dare you mock me in such a manner. I told you, I would not attack a fellow catholic. If you wished peace, pretender you should not have dishonoured me.
May the Poles, carry away you're head on rusted pike staff!

The Holy Roman Emperor.