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Thread: 17th century

  1. #1381
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    I know that it is hard for the German Lords, but times are changing. Many still stick to the old Latin, but the new language of noblemen and wisemen is French. If you want to participate in the New Age, you have to learn it. If not, please stay in the Latin speaking Middle Ages.

  2. #1382
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    How is this so? I have not heard it said throughout all the courts of Europe that French in now the rule. You are perhaps getting over you're head?

    Sig by Durango

    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
    -Oscar Wilde

  3. #1383
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Well, I see that lately most of the messangers bypass Germany. I announced the change above and none had any reasons to vote against it. Even Tosa-san agreed in a silent way!

    Et voila!

    Quote Originally Posted by Franconicus
    ... We also see that it is about the time to change the official language of the Oxident from Latin into French. I think all reasonable members agree that the official org. language is from now on French!

  4. #1384
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Damn! Yet again i'm fooled into thinking there is a new chapter up...
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  5. #1385
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Sorry, it will be delayed until the weekend probably. A lot of stuff came up
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

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    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    Sorry, it will be delayed until the weekend probably. A lot of stuff came up
    No worries. The thesis probably needs some attention anyway..
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  7. #1387
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Latin? Wha?

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  8. #1388
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century


    Battle of Gibraltar: Today is the anniversary of the Battle of Gibraltar. I thought you might want to have a look:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gibraltar

    Bad bad Dutch:
    Following the destruction of the Spanish ships, the Dutch deployed boats and killed hundreds of swimming Spanish sailors.

  9. #1389
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Bloodthirsty Brigands! Bashi bazooks! Bloody minded rogues! Debters! Protestants! Bloodhounds of Satan!

    Sig by Durango

    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
    -Oscar Wilde

  10. #1390
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Bashi bazooks
    Hey, watch your mouth kaiser, I think I have a unit of soldiers called that. You don't want another war with the ruler of all the world do you?
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

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    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    All the world? You mean the Largest Continuous Empire, correct?

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  12. #1392
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Surley China or the Moguls are larger?

    Sig by Durango

    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
    -Oscar Wilde

  13. #1393
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    China? China? Call the Geographe Royal!

  14. #1394
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    All the world? You mean the Largest Continuous Empire, correct?
    I, the sultan, was just boasting...
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

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    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Who are these "Chinese" or "Moguls"?

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  16. #1396
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    The Chinese are squat men in the east who claim to have invented gunpowder. The "Moguls" sounds like the Mughals, they rule parts of India.
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
    -Stephen Fry

  17. #1397
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    No, the Moguls, those nen whom pop up from the great southern continent and are called Rupert.

    Sig by Durango

    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
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    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    The Tsar does not understand this jest.

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  19. #1399
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishArmenian
    The Tsar does not understand this jest.
    Madness! They all crazy I tells ya!

    The remedy would of course be a new chapter
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  20. #1400
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    I want my fix!! Lets see will the anniversary of battle of Gibraltar be an omen from things to come.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  21. #1401
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    CHAPTER 18
    ...the decisions made will affect the events from March 1st, 1618 AD to August 1st, 1618 AD

    At the beginning of August, Spinola begins reforming his broken army. Around 500 of the previous deserters return to the army and are along with 4,000 mercenaries incorporated into it before the middle of the month, bringing numbers up to 23,500 including the Catholic League forces. Meanwhile Tilly passes through Regensburg with his victorious 37,000 in his march east. Spinola begins a manouver towards Brandenburg, threatening to cut off the retreat of the Swedish force close to Vienna. Meanwhile, Tilly and Wallenstein are moving east rapidly. Spinola, after securing several smaller towns in Brandenburg without casualties to support his supply, now turns southeast. A trap of over 60,000 Catholic forces split into 3 parts is beginning to close around the somewhat fatigued and demoralized Swedish army, which however is determined to attempt an assault on Vienna before winter. A few weeks of bad weather prevent a quick assault, which is postponed long enough to make the manouvres of the Catholic armies get even closer to the Swedish position and nearly converge.

    However Tilly has received new orders, and the operation is aborted before the pincers can close around the Swedish force. After attempting to assault Vienna and failing, the Swedish army escapes north safely. With difficulties in supplies and 2,000 casualties from the failed assault on Vienna, they regroup in Bohemia at the end of the month. Only Spinola still threatens the Swedish force, but his numbers are still too small. Tilly passes through Regensburg again in the middle of the month, and continues towards the Southern Netherlands, where he arrives in early September, now with 44,000 men. He is met by heavily garrisoned fortresses and a Dutch army that tries to avoid conclusive battle. As he marches past the Dutch-garrisoned Cologne towards the Waal, he finds that the Dutch have burnt the bridges over the river. Meanwhile, the Dutch garrisoned fortresses to the south sally out and harass Tilly's supply. He decides to try and force the Dutch into battle by putting Cologne under siege. The city is well garrisoned, but some remnants of the embankments from the previous Dutch siege are still left, and the city could be threatened in a matter of a few months with the heavy autumn rains. However, these rains are also problematic for Tilly's supply, and when the Dutch army still hasn't been drawn into battle by October, he pulls back towards Austria after losing around 2,000 men, meeting up with Wallenstein.

    Meanwhile, in October, the Swedish army has retreated to winter camp in Brandenburg, leaving around 3,000 as garrison in Bohemia, while beginning negotiations with the local Protestants regarding independence from the Habsburgs. The Swedish troops then reach winter camp in Brandenburg with 30,000 troops, next to 12,000 belonging to the Protestant Union, for a total of 42,000. On the arrival of the Swedish troops, Spinola pulls back south of the Elbe to avoid battle with the numerally superior opponent. However, by November, Spinola receives new troops. 12,000 Spanish troops have arrived from Italy after Florence fell to a bloody assault in August, and an additional reserve of 8,000 mercenaries have, though with great difficulties, been built up over the entire autumn. Spinola thus has 43,500 men, of which 16,000 are Spanish and the remainder are mercenaries. Tilly and Wallenstein's combined forces now number 46,000 men. Despite the fact that winter has begun, the Catholic armies go on the offensive. In December, Tilly advances from his camp near Leipzig towards Dessau, and crosses the Elbe near Wittemberg, but is forced to leave 2,000 cavalry south of the river to cover the supplies. He is able to cross the Elbe before the Swedish army can react, but is critically delayed during the river crossing itself. The ice of the frozen river turns out too thin for the cannons, and he must seek a crossing over one of the major bridges. A Swedish reconnaissance patrol engages and routs a small group of Imperial cavalry near the river, and as Tilly marches towards the town of Luckenwalde, he is engaged by the Swedish army which nearly captures the Imperial force in an ambush, however they too lose the element of surprise. The Swedish cavalry manages to rout the Imperial cavalry on one of the flanks and the Swedish infantry advances, but Tilly is able to save the army from complete rout despite retreating towards safer ground in the face of the Swedish charge. Part of the Swedish attack is disorganized as it reaches the Imperial line and the remaining Imperial cavalry deals decisive damage to the Swedish flank, which is only saved at the last moment by a charge from the Finnish Hakkapeliittas. With the last of the Imperial cavalry routed, Tilly's line is severely threatened, but Wallenstein has managed to protect the precious Imperial artillery and during the last hour of the battle the Imperial forces are able to prevent total disaster and make the Swedish victory becomes costly. In the end, the Swedish have lost 4,000 Swedish infantry and 800 cavalry, while the Imperial army has lost 7,000 infantry and 300 cavalry, and Tilly has been severely wounded. The Swedish are unable to pursue the army, as they receive news of Spinola being less than one day's march from their position, with 43,000 men compared to the Swedish 38,000, threatening to meet with the remaining Imperial 37,000. The Swedish retreat over the Havel, hoping to delay the opponents at the river crossing.

    At the end of the month, the Imperial army, now commanded by Wallenstein, lays siege on the town of Brandenburg to draw out the Swedish into battle at his fortified position outside the town, while Spinola occupies smaller towns south of the river to improve the supply situation. After less than a week, the town of Brandenburg falls, securing the Catholic armies a safe crossing of the Havel. The Swedish, now forced into full retreat, are caught up with and engaged near Wittstock. The assaults on the Swedish entrenched position are costly, with huge losses in infantry during the first hours as the attackers fail to break through, but eventually, concentrated Imperial artillery is able to open a crucial breech in the Swedish defenses and in the following assault, a Swedish cavalry charge is driven back with huge casualties after failing to prevent the position from being overrun. The Swedish have lost 5,000 infantry, 1,500 cavalry, most of their cannons, and the commanders Torsten Stålhandske and Johan Banér, along with at least 3,000 missing or wounded, and the king is wounded in the leg, barely escaping capture. The Spanish army loses 3,000 infantry and 100 cavalry, the Imperial-Catholic League army another 3,000 infantry, and another 2,500 each are suffered by the lack of supply throughout the winter, but the Spanish, Imperial and Catholic League have secured their back, leaving Potsdam, Berlin and Magdeburg almost unguarded for the upcoming spring. The Swedish now have less than 28,500 troops and shortage in cavalry and artillery. Wallenstein has 31,500 men, and Spinola 37,500 men.

    Meanwhile, at Gibraltar, the Spanish launch attacks with galleys armed with heavier cannons on the Protestant fleet, managing to score several hits on it in calm weather, when the sail-driven ships are unable to turn quickly and are vulnerable to the superior reach of these specially equipped galleys. The Spanish galleys repeat their manouvers for several days, however with limited damage. In late August, the Coalition fleet however withdraws from Gibraltar, pulling out most of their garrison from the fortress on the rock. Spanish troops assault the fortress in the beginning of September, and although they have difficulties capturing it, the garrison surrenders earlier than expected. Only 1,100 Spanish attackers are killed and less than 3,000 wounded, while the 2,600 survivors from the 3,000 man large garrison are captured.

    In Ireland, the Spanish garrison of Cork sallies from the city in August and attack the besieging English force. The besiegers are surprised to find themselves pitted against as much as 7,000 opponents. Although the Spanish have little artillery support, they have much cavalry and their experienced tercio inflicts much damage to the English cavalry charges, while the Spanish cavalry disrupts their artillery. At the end of the battle, the English siege force has lost much of its equipment and cavalry, and are in retreat towards Limerick. The Spanish, along with Irish auxiliaries, pursue them. Meanwhile, a Scottish revolt is prevented before it starts, after traitors among the rebels inform the English king of the revolt. The responsible are captured and executed. In early September, the Protestant Coalition fleet reaches its target: Cork. They land over 20,000 troops outside the city, and are able to capture it quickly. Not long afterwards, at Limerick, the Spanish-Irish force surrenders. 4,000 Spanish and 3,000 Irish troops are captured, many of the latter are killed.

    Rumors are circulating about French merchants assisting the Spanish. They are accused of having offered protection for the Spanish silver fleet to enable the Spanish economy to survive the war. In Portugal, the Spanish king tries to prevent revolt by increasing the garrisons and ordering a local culture-related project to keep the potential rebel leaders occupied. The total Iberian peninsula garrison is now believed to be less than 50,000 men, with the National Guard constituting the majority.

    In the Mediterranean, the Spanish fleet launches a campaign to capture the remaining Venetian Mediterranean possessions. Meanwhile, Ottoman forces join the offensive from the other direction, both announcing a trade embargo towards Venice. In a Spanish-Ottoman treaty, Cyprus is given to Venice, while most remaining Venetian possessions are divided between Spain and the Ottomans. Corfu and Ragusa are captured from smaller Venetian garrisons. The Venetian Doge asks for terms of peace. With Florence fallen and the Venetian-Florentine army in North Italy dissolved, they only have the difficult to capture fortresses left against the Spanish-Ottoman advance. French merchants are protesting loudly about the Cyprus treaty, after French trade bases have been established on the island since its earlier liberation. The Knights of St John withdraw half their garrison from the island.

    In the Atlantic, 25 Spanish warships successfully defeat a Protestant fleet of 15 English, 5 Dutch and 5 Danish warships, sinking 7 ships and losing 3 in August. In September, Spanish troops land in South Africa and capture the Dutch colony there. However in October, a large Dutch fleet arrives from the East Indies, and retakes the colony. It continues west, pursuing the Spanish fleet that initially captured the colony, but fail to catch up with it. In January, 22 Spanish warships are engaged outside the Iberian peninsula by 40 Protestant warships, suffering 11 sunk ships, while sinking only 3. A reinforced English fleet in the Carribbean raids a Spanish shipyard and port in the area, setting 2 merchants on fire and damage much of the ship building facilities there. Despite naval dominance in most regions, the Protestants have difficulties capturing more ground in the colonies, due to increased Spanish garrisons in most regions. Spanish shore batteries also prove effective in all regions, damaging several Protestant warships and sinking 2 smaller transports during the operations in the Carribbean.

    In Russia, the civil war gets hotter again. Vassili sends 20,000 troops towards Moscow. They are joined by another 5,000. They break through the outer defenses of the city, but are unable to capture the Tsar's palace. The support in the city is also more limited than expected. In January, after being driven back by the return of Wladyslaw's army, Vassili is assassinated by one of the boyars that were previously among his supporters. Not long afterwards, a majority of Vassili's army surrenders. The civil war is over, but the boyars suggest reforms to limit Wladyslaw's power. His bodyguard is limited to 300 troops, and leading boyars take command of the army. They begin froming a standing force of 8,000 infantry, 2,000 cavalry and 5,000 Cossacks is formed, and a militia reserve of at least 40,000. However, the country is economically damaged by the decades of internal strife, and not very much industrialized.



    BRANDENBURG

    1. plans?


    ENGLAND

    1. plans? Is the unrest in the isles worth bothering about, or should the troops be committed to strengthening the efforts in the HRE or to land in Portugal to support anti-Spanish revolt there? What should the fleet do next, how should it be distributed and which targets should it strike?


    FRANCE

    1. plans?


    HRE and AUSTRIA

    1. military plans? The Catholic League has currently a strength of 23,000, and there are currently 25,000 Imperial troops. Of these, some are acting as garrisons in captured regions including Hesse-Kassel, Ansbach, Wurttemberg, Bayreuth. Some of these garrisons could be threatened by revolts among the Protestants, but hardly by more than 3,000 in any place unless Wallenstein is driven back to the north. The Catholic League wishes to withdraw south to protect their homelands from an expected Anglo-Dutch offensive from over 40,000 men or even more, however Spinola might have other suggestions. Wallenstein wishes to assault Magdeburg, Potsdam and Berlin in order to prepare for a renewed offensive towards the Swedish, hoping to capture Stralsund and raid Jutland. The Catholic League is planning to muster another 5,000 men, Wallenstein is unable to recruit anything except normal mercenaries while he is campaigning, and it is unlikely there are more than around 5,000 mercenaries more available to hire this season.


    NETHERLANDS

    1. plans? In the HRE? For the fleets?


    OTTOMAN EMPIRE

    1. plans?


    POLAND

    1. plans?


    RUSSIA

    1. who do you wish to continue playing as? You may choose Wladyslaw, one of the boyars, someone else, or even another faction.


    SPAIN

    1. plans? Should the army continue with its previous objectives or with new ones? The Swedish army is severely damaged, but the ground north of Wittstock is difficult to campaign in and pursue the Swedish in during the coming month. Brandenburg's cities lie open for conquest unless the Swedish manage to return reinforced, but Magdeburg and Potsdam may require almost a year of siege. The Anglo-Dutch army could currently be over 40,000 men strong. Many tercios have been lost in the last 3 years, during the Ottoman war, during the Irish campaign, and in the HRE. These could probably be replaced in the coming 2 years, but it will be costly. Due to your losses being replaced by mercenaries, your annual expenses have increased despite the losses. Also, what should the fleets concentrate on doing? Diplomatically, should peace with Venice, and/or the Protestant Coalition be attempted? What about France, which is currently increasing its fleet? Should the land forces try a decisive final blow in the HRE, or retreat to secure the home front?


    SWEDEN

    1. plans? Should the army stay in the HRE, or pull out altogether? Should it seek reinforcements from mercenaries and Denmark? Should it to be safe be temporarily extracted and returned home, or should it pick at strong position such as Stralsund to defend with both naval and land arms, and where escape is possible if the battle fails? Or should it seek refugee in Jutland, assuming Denmark allows this, behind their newly built lines of forts? Only around 5,000 mercenaries are available to hire for the coming season. Also, should part of the Swedish fleet be sent to the Atlantic and English Channel to gain experience and support the Coalition's naval efforts? Finally, should any actions be done against the new situation in Russia?
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 04-27-2007 at 19:27.
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  22. #1402
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Hmm... So, is there still a Venice player? Or are you playing Venice yourself?

    Nice chapter, by the way. Swedish king was lucky.
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  23. #1403
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Great chapter Legio! Can we get a map from the situation in HRE?
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  24. #1404
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Good Chapter. I want to loose the internal strife, so I think I'll play as Mikahil Romanov who was elected Tsar in 1613, so I don't know how this will work out.

    He was elected by the Duma after Vasili died and False Dmitriy had lost all of his power and might as well have been dead.

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  25. #1405
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
    Hmm... So, is there still a Venice player? Or are you playing Venice yourself?
    Venice hasn't really participated much in the last 2-3 chapters, and has been removed.
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  26. #1406
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishArmenian
    Good Chapter. I want to loose the internal strife, so I think I'll play as Mikahil Romanov who was elected Tsar in 1613, so I don't know how this will work out.

    He was elected by the Duma after Vasili died and False Dmitriy had lost all of his power and might as well have been dead.
    Mikhail Romanov will probably work out well. You would have a lot of influence, and as long as your suggestions aren't too much contrary to the will of the other boyars, your decisions will most likely be what in the end happens.
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  27. #1407
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  28. #1408
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    The German Emperor
    We are willing to now offer peace terms of our conditionaing to Brandenbourg and the Swedes.

    Sig by Durango

    Now that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
    -Oscar Wilde

  29. #1409
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Government of Netherlands

    "We would like to ask Pope what he thinks of the Spanish making deals with the Turk to share Christian Italian lands between themselves and muslims?This seems rather intresting to us."
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  30. #1410
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: 17th century

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagemusha
    Government of Netherlands

    "We would like to ask Pope what he thinks of the Spanish making deals with the Turk to share Christian Italian lands between themselves and muslims?This seems rather intresting to us."
    Apparently the Netherlands needs a new geographical institution, the lands that have passed to the Sultan are those of Greeks, who are not Catholic.

    Italian lands are firmly under the control of Catholic rulers.
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

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