17th century

[Franconicus]

APPOINTMENT

The King appoints Henri II, duke de Rohan Supreme Commander of all forces in France.

I wish my son-in-law good success for his new, difficult position.

Maximilen, duc de Sully, Mareshal de France

[Marshal Murat]

What filth is this? What Christ are you praying to Russian? You seek only to expand you lands to encompass the Rus lands, and only to protect the Orthodox Cristian, though they may deny your protection!
What horsemen are these, who can ride over the eagles of Poland? What riders can stop the wave of steel and horseflesh. Eagle wings will carry my Hussaria through your riders!

[IrishArmenian]

Ah, maybe through my riders, but not through the Ottoman ones.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Awaiting decisions from: Denmark, England, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden

[cegorach]

The unstoppable wave is mustering its forces. All of at least 68000 of them. Many guns and feerce troops. Better horsemen than your Hussaria, and more disiplined. The jannisaries will come, and when the looting of Warsaw begins, hide your loved ones... at leest the women.
Now, Holy Roman Emperor, I see now business in this for you. We can divide Poland as soon as it is fallen. What do you get out of this, a pat on the back?
Join us, and Brandenburg will once again be kind and peeceful, while all the German peoples unite agenst the Polish filth! Their land shood and can be yours!
-The Tsar.

I must congratulate you ! It is almost like reading the real ssources from the XVIIth century - Russian rulers and diplomats used very similar phrases and aguments (threats). Good work !

[SwordsMaster]

Sorry about the long absence. I had to take an unexpected trip, and will be back in full force on Monday. Again, sorry about the disruption.

[Orb]

sorry, but I'm going to have to drop out of this on account of RL.

Silver, would you like Denmark?

[IrishArmenian]

I must congratulate you ! It is almost like reading the real ssources from the XVIIth century - Russian rulers and diplomats used very similar phrases and aguments (threats). Good work !

Oh. That is just me trying to sownd regal and perswasive. Maybe it is that the Russia Rulers had some Armenian blood in them.

[Rodion Romanovich]

The Holy Father requests all Christian nations to resolve their internal affairs as quickly as possible to be able to send assistance - own troops or mercenaries - to the Holy Roman Emperor in his defensive war against the Ottomans.

[Franconicus]

The Saracenes attack the Pope? Can you give us more details?

[Rodion Romanovich]

No, the Pope suggests that all Christians should support the HRE against the Ottoman expansion

[Incongruous]

Turn ready?

[Rodion Romanovich]

Almost: Netherlands, Spain and Sweden haven't submitted their turn decisions yet. And Denmark left. I'll try to find out if Silver Rusher is interested in taking over Denmark...

[IrishArmenian]

There is no defensive war that the HRE is fiting. The war is to support an offensive by Catholics who converted on of their own to Orthodoxy! That is a fact your Pope always ignores. If Russia and Ottoman Empire are defeeted, which has a 3% chance, where will you get your exotic trade goods? No non-Russian has ever been able to hold Russia, and the Europeans always do terrible in the Middle East. If any smarter than HRE and Poland rulers wood like to side with us, your support wood be welcomed, thoe unless you are a small country, try sabatoshing our enemies. Can you, the Catholic nashuns, reelly aid an empire that at many times was excommunicated and bullied the Pope? History has a way of repeeting itself, so I say take acshun! March agenst HRE! I know of at leest two Nashuns who really can defeet HRE, espeshially after I negotiate with their neighbors to lay off. What are you waiting for? There is German land to be had!

[Marshal Murat]

The heir to the throne of Poland is elected by diet, blood lineage had little to do with who is elected next. We in Poland are accepting of all religions. However, when the Orthodox Rus try and disturb this natural order, by oppressing the Catholics and the Jews, we stand and fight!
Then the Heathen, Muslim Turk stands by the Rus and calls on her hoards of warriors. Corsairs, tchambuls of Tartar horsemen. Janssaries of the Sultan! Muslims who seek to expand their control over the trade of all exotic goods! What happens when they overwhelm the Polish horsemen and German foot-soldiers? They will stand on the Rhineland shores, and envy the greener pastures, untouched by warfare, rape, looting, conquest, and destruction.
Will no Catholics stand against these twin prongs of the Devil, thrusting into the heart of the Catholic nations? These heathens, the Muslim and Rus have no respect for our nuns, our crosses, our monasteries!
We in Poland only ask that Catholics acknowlage our struggle against the Rus and Ottoman. The conflict of faith that rages onward. Will no nation stand against these but Poland and the Holy Roman Empire? Do no other nations have the will to fight? Where have the French riders who stormed the Islamic walls of Jerusalem? Where are the Spanish conquisators who slaughtered the Aztec pagans of blood and fire worship? Where are the English, who's knights rode with Richard into the Holy Land, fighting the Saracen? When will the nations of Europe rise? Stand brothers! Stand and fight not ourselves but the Rus, the Mulsim, the Tartar! The defilers of the sacred sites of our ancestors!
We ask only that when the Ottomans are pushed beyond Constantinople, the Rus are only primitive devil worshipers of the far north, and all is balanced. Christ died for our sins to see such a downfall of his followers!? God struck down the Khan only to see us fall to his Muslim offspring? God gave us victory in Antioch, Jerusalem, and the Holy Land only to see their ancestors die under the boot of the Ottoman and the Rus!?
Stand sons of Christ. Stand!

Proclamation from his Majesty, King Sigismund III Vasa
King of the Poland-Lithuanian Commonwealth

His Majesty also requests that the Zaphorojans Cossack prepare for war, and to call them to drink na umor and to be led by the eldest ataman, who will become Hetman of the Cossack army. March on Turkish and Crimean holdings, plunder and pillage their mosques and cities. Spare Christians, Jews, and Orthodox Christians.

[Franconicus]

Let me summarize the situation.

The whole thing started with the troublse about the heir of the Russians. The French King thought that this was not his business. In fact, he could not cared less.

However, the Poles made it their business. That was alright for the French. The Poles won, due to their excellent cavalry, maybe the second best in the world. That was fine for France, although it is sad that so many brave noblemen died in this war.

The Muslims felt provoked by the dominance of the Poles. Now it was the time for diplomacy, the Poles could have appeased the Muslims and could hav given the land a new order. However, they put up the fight.

Then the Kaiser interfered. Still fighting in his own countries against its own people he steppd into another war. The only reason for that was to cover his own failures at home. I ask him, why do you send your armies into foreign countries, while you are not able to keep order at home?

Then loud war cries came to Paris. We raised our heads to look where the forces of heaven and hell met for the final battle. However, all we saw were some frustrated souvereigns crying from fear. There was no serious fighting at all.

Then the Pope called us to defend Christianity. We crap our swords and take our shields like our fathers did long time ago. However, we do not know what we are going to defend. The throne of Moscow? The throne of the Kaiser? Against his own dukes? What is the goal of this new, socalled crusade? Jerusalem? Where is the threat for Christianity. Oh, we all know it very well! Wake up, Christians, the enemy is already there!

Look around. Look at the Catholic states. Their kings let them into senseless wars. Poland, The HRE, Spain and England, all at war. What are they fighting for? Is this the will of the Lord? France and Savoy together with the Italians countries are the only Catholics keeping peace. Look at the Protestant countries, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, they all manage to live in peace. The Catholic leaders are a shame for the Christianity. And a threat! Because it is their false pride that will lead the heathens to Europe.

[Csargo]

To the Protestant North and all other German lords who are against the Emperor,

I wish to call a meeting or Reichstag to discuss further actions against the Emperor of the HRE. This is to begin as soon as possible.

Duke of Brandenburg

[Marshal Murat]

We in Poland are offended by the gross representation of the issues. We in Poland were full and willing to negotiate with the Ottoman Turks. Before we could, or even recall many of the Cossacks, who may not have even been our own, they declare war! They ally with the Rus, and they attempt to invade our lands from the south! What madness is this,were we were all about war!? We would seek a diplomatic solution to this war, but the Ottomans are stauchly opposed to it! They seek to crush the bulwark of Eastern Christianity, so they may move onward to greener pastures!
Ottomans, we ask for peace, a cessation of hostilities between our nations, and we are willing to send the Cossacks back to their towns and villages, camps and tents of their homeland. I ask for a peaceful resolution, so that you will not face war.
However, we are not willing to end any war against the mad pretender of the Rus, who still thinks him ruler! He has been beaten on the field, his boyars don't trust him, and he has an army of peasants!
Poland is willing to settle any differences with the Rus and Ottomans, just as long as
1)A ceasefire be declared between the nations, lasting for ten years.
2)Rus become an ally of the state of Poland-Lithuania, and allow the boyars to seat the Polish candidate, if they so chose.
3)Allow the Polish to tax shipping and trade through Rus lands
In exchange we will uphold the ceasefire, and will decrease the number of troops in arms. We will also plea with the Holy Roman Emperor to cease any rash Crusade against the Turk.

[Incongruous]

So, when push comes to shove, when men must be men, all melt away to nothingness and peversions!

You Lords of France, who wished my markets open only to you're silk, now slink away and leave us abandoned when war is called for? You are a disgrace to God, and manhood! I shall not back down to the cries of others.
I shall not be the acceptor of false and unjust peace.
I shall not be a coward!

The Holy Roman Emperor.

[Franconicus]

King of Poland,

We did not want to be offending! We hear your words and we see that they contain wisdom. We see that you are a man of honor and want to avoid meaningless killing. We could be mediator, if you want us to. We have absolutly no personal interest in the affairs of Russia and therefore we might be the right persons to settle the differences.

King of France

To the KaiserKaiser,

You offended the King and therefore our whole nation. You will see that we are not like you. We do not gloat over our heroic deeds before the battle has even started. We leave that to the defeated enemies!

[Rodion Romanovich]

Currently awaiting decisions from Netherlands

[Silver Rusher]

I shall now be joining this game, thank you Orb.

Military research on Transylvania from cegorach:

Basically it consisted of 3 parts

- professional force,

- levy,

-and mercenaries

First part consisted of cavalry armed with lances with heavy cavalry quite similar to Polish Hussars, but with no wings at all, they also lost shields at that time.
But the majority were lighter Szekely hussars and retainers of heavier hussars armed with lances, but without any armour with support consisting of even lighter cavalry with carbines and bows uaed to support hard hitting cavalry.
Professional infantry consisted of several types of Haiduk infantry armed either with arquebuses or muskets, but used mainly to support cavalry in similar way it was done in Poland.
There were Blue, Green and Black haiduks. Blue from the state - the other ones provided by Saxon cities or paid by churches ( lutheran, catholic, calvinist and unionite).

Levy used similar units - Szekely infantry serving because of their ancient duty and either private noble troops of mobilised levy of some sort. For sure the quality of this force was worse, but not so much e.g. Szekely infantry was pretty good, especially when defending their territory.

Mercenaries came from various sources - mostly Germans and from Romanian countries. There were also Cossacks, especially later, Poles, even Scotsmen (from Poland probably).

Artillery wasn't very powerful, but it existed and even with limited numbers they were good enough to take any city they had to besiege.


Numbers - the number of soldiers was about 35 000 without mercenaries ( Bethlen mobilised about 30 000 in 1619 against the Hapsburgs and left 5 000-8 000 to cover the border). With mercenaries (especially Cossacks) it could reach 50 000.
Another thing was the large number of Hungarian soldiers possible to recruit in Royal Hungary area. It could be about 10 000 without too much trouble, but it was a matter of popularity and support of the local Diet rather than money alone.


Overall the army was large enough to endanger any rule in the region its main flaw was probably smaller firepower than the western pike and musket formations, but rather at longe range. With a good leader and morale it had everything to defeat similar western force or larger Ottoman army.



Regards Cegorach

Thanks very much for this, ceg.

[Kagemusha]

So Silver you will be Denmark for now on?Wellcome to the game!

[Marshal Murat]

From what I understand, Denmark has been shifted back to Legio, while rusher has taken Transylvania.

[Rodion Romanovich]

From what I understand, Denmark has been shifted back to Legio, while rusher has taken Transylvania.

yes that's right

[Kagemusha]

Thanks for the info!

[Csargo]

Well welcome to the game Silver.

[Incongruous]

Welcome, may you join my side so I'm ot so lonely

[Csargo]

I was your friend until you attacked me.

[Franconicus]

Welcome, may you join my side so I'm ot so lonely

Tempora si fuerint nubila, solus eris.

This may be helpful to understand the situation in the Roman Empire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-elector

Rights and privileges
Electors were among the rulers of the States of the Empire, but enjoyed precedence over the other princes. They were, until the 18th century, exclusively entitled to the style Durchlaucht (Serene Highness). In 1742, the electors became entitled to the superlative Durchläuchtigste (Most Serene Highness), while other princes were promoted to Durchlaucht.

As rulers of States of the Empire, the electors enjoyed all the privileges of the other princes, including the right to enter into alliances, autonomy in relation to dynastic affairs and precedence over other subjects. The Golden Bull recognised certain additional rights belonging to the electors. For instance, electors were granted a monopoly over all mines of gold, silver, and other metals within their territories, to tax Jews, to collect tolls, and to mint money; these powers belonged to the Emperor in the other territories, and princes who wrongly assumed them could be deprived of their status. Thus, the electors were among the most powerful princes in the Empire. Electors also enjoyed several judicial powers within their territories. Their subjects could be not be tried in the imperial courts, and appeal from their courts lay only in cases where denial of justice was claimed.

After the abolition of the Holy Roman Empire in August of 1806, the electors continued to reign over their territories, many of them taking higher titles. The Dukes of Bavaria, Württemberg, and Saxony made themselves Kings, as did the Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg, who was already King of Great Britain; meanwhile, the Margrave of Baden elevated himself to the Grand-Ducal dignity. The Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel, however, retained the meaningless title "Elector of Hesse", thus distinguishing himself from other Hessian princes (the Grand Duke of Hesse-Darmstadt and the Landgrave of Hesse-Homburg). In 1866, however, the Elector of Hesse was dethroned under Otto von Bismarck's plan for German Unification.

[edit]
Reichstag
The electors, like the other princes ruling States of the Empire, were members of the Reichstag, which was divided into three collegia: the Council of Electors, the Council of Princes, and the Council of Cities. In addition to being members of the Council of Electors, several lay electors were therefore members of the Council of Princes as well by virtue of other territories they possessed. In many cases, the lay electors ruled numerous States of the Empire, and therefore held several votes in the Council of Princes. In 1792, the King of Bohemia held three votes, the Elector of Bavaria six votes, the Elector of Brandenburg eight votes, and the Elector of Hanover six votes. Thus, of the hundred votes in the Council of Princes in 1792, twenty-three belonged to electors. The lay electors therefore exercised considerable influence, being members of the small Council of Electors and holding a significant number of votes in the Council of Princes. The assent of both bodies was required for important decisions affecting the structure of the Empire, such as the creation of new electorates or States of the Empire.

In addition to voting by colleges or councils, the Reichstag also voted on religious lines, as provided for by the Peace of Westphalia. The Archbishop of Mainz presided over the Catholic body, or corpus catholicorum, while the Elector of Saxony presided over the Protestant body, or corpus evangelicorum. The division into religious bodies was on the basis of the official religion of the state, and not of its rulers. Thus, even when the Electors of Saxony were Catholics during the eighteenth century, they continued to preside over the corpus evangelicorum, since the state of Saxony was officially Protestant

.