How to change the year of Roman system's changing?

[Shamo]

i really hate to wait until 243BC to get these new roman units, any tell me how to make it sooner, please ?

[iwantmyaccountdeleted]

It changes with the time you get an imperial city in Italy (including Sicily I think)

If you want to make that sooner. Create loads of peasant units, take them to Italy and disband them there.

Hope that helps

Stormie

A (relative) newb

[Epistolary Richard]

Go to your export_descr_buildings.txt file. Do a search for the units that you want to make sooner - you'll see at the end of each line is "and marian_reforms" - remove it.

Backup your file before you mess with it though

[Melea Lord]

Can you make it so that it the event happens when Marius in reality changed the system? Wasn't it 108BC?

OR

Could you make it impossible for the Imperial palace to be built before 108BC? But wouldn't that create large levels of squalor?

[Makanyane]

Shamo, I'd try switching 'imperial_palace' and 'proconsuls_palace' for every instance in export_descr_buildings.txt ( and descr_strat if cities are large enough). Hard coded stuff generally relates to resource / building name not context so that should bring it in earlier.

Melea Lord, to make trigger activate later, you could either, make building queue longer by increasing building times and / or enforcing inter-dependencies so all lower buildings inc - all levels of stables etc have to be built first - if squalor becomes too much of a problem you can add health benefits to other buildings.
Alternatively reduce population growth in regions with relevant resource ( I assume that the relevant one is italy- but it could be rome or something else!?)
In normal modding I don't think there's anything to link this to a specific year, but you could look into scripting, as that seems to achieve more....

[Atilius]

...I assume that the relevant one is italy...

Yes, this is correct. If you remove the hidden resource "italy", the reforms will not occur.

In normal modding I don't think there's anything to link this to a specific year, but you could look into scripting, as that seems to achieve more...

Agreed. Something like this should work in a background script:

monitor_conditions( I_TurnNumber=326 )
    console_command create_building ROME new_building_name
    terminate_monitor
end_monitor

You would want to make construction of the new units dependent in some way upon the existence of new_building_name. The normal method for triggering the Marian reforms would need to be disabled, and the marian_reforms keyword will then always evaluate to false.

[Shamo]

It changes with the time you get an imperial city in Italy (including Sicily I think)

If you want to make that sooner. Create loads of peasant units, take them to Italy and disband them there.

Hope that helps

Stormie

A (relative) newb

so there's not a certain year about Marius's new system,that's why i looked everywhere but found nothing
it's not a big problem in the vanilla, but in RTG, every settlements start with a really small population,and there's no peasant unit, so it seems they take forever to change to an imperial city
@ Makanyane & Epistolary Richard :i'll see it'd work or not
@ Atilius :maybe a bit stupid , but where i can find these script ?
and...thanks alot u guys ^-^

[Atilius]

Shamo: The scripts that come with the game are restricted to giving advice and setting up battles. You must write scripts that control aspects of the game yourself. My suggestion is that you look at the A Beginner's Guide to Scripting and An Intermediate Guide to Scripting if you'd like to learn more about writing and running scripts.

[Monkwarrior]

Agreed. Something like this should work in a background script:

monitor_conditions( I_TurnNumber=326 )
    console_command create_building ROME new_building_name
    terminate_monitor
end_monitor

You would want to make construction of the new units dependent in some way upon the existence of new_building_name. The normal method for triggering the Marian reforms would need to be disabled, and the marian_reforms keyword will then always evaluate to false.

I've been also wondering about this method, but the problem is that you need the new building in all the regions. If not the post-reform units will be recruitable only in Rome. I was looking for some useful "faction_capability", but I was unable to find any.

I tried another method: I put the hidden_resource Italy in a region in the corner of the map (non-accessible to the rest of factions) in hands of the rebels. In a moment I triggered by script the building of an imperial palace.
I observed that it was built (with the perfect_spy option), but nothing happened. The reform was not triggered. I'm not sure if this is due to the fact that the region is owned by rebels or if this is because the imperial palace was not constructed on a precedent proconsuls palace as a consequence of the normal evolution of the building tree.

After that, playing with romans, I built an imperial palace in the right manner, and reform was triggered.

I hope this helps.

[Atilius]

I've been also wondering about this method, but the problem is that you need the new building in all the regions. If not the post-reform units will be recruitable only in Rome.

You're entirely correct MW. Once the proper date has passed, I've been thinking in terms of either: (1) creating this building in every settlement or (2) monitoring the ownership of each settlement with a campaign script and creating it only in Roman controlled settlements which didn't already have one. This new building would be a requirement for upgrading a Roman barracks to allow construction of the Marian reform units.

With no clear plan yet, I thought I'd just sketch the general idea.

[Atilius]

I tried another method: I put the hidden_resource Italy in a region in the corner of the map (non-accessible to the rest of factions) in hands of the rebels. In a moment I triggered by script the building of an imperial palace. I observed that it was built (with the perfect_spy option), but nothing happened. The reform was not triggered. I'm not sure if this is due to the fact that the region is owned by rebels or if this is because the imperial palace was not constructed on a precedent proconsuls palace as a consequence of the normal evolution of the building tree.

Cool experiment MW.

I haven't played RTW with the Marian reforms for quite some time, so I don't remember exactly how they work. Do they occur immediately upon construction of an Imperial Palace, or within some small, random number of turns afterward? (See this thread, which I admit may be obsolete or wrong on the random aspect.)

Did you try running a few more turns after the Imperial Palace was constructed in your rebel province?

[Monkwarrior]

Cool experiment MW.

I haven't played RTW with the Marian reforms for quite some time, so I don't remember exactly how they work. Do they occur immediately upon construction of an Imperial Palace, or within some small, random number of turns afterward? (See this thread, which I admit may be obsolete or wrong on the random aspect.)

Did you try running a few more turns after the Imperial Palace was constructed in your rebel province?

Thanks.

I have not too much experience in Marius reform either. In that experiment imperial palace appeared in rebel province in turn 2, and I played about 50 turns until I was able to build it one in Rome. And yes, the reform was active in the very moment the building was finished.

Another experiment I had in mind (but not time to make it) was to change the internal name of the last level of government buildings, let's say to royal_palace.
Then to create a new building series called reforms, with only one level, called... guess ... imperial_palace. Would this new building trigger the Marius reform?
If I have time, I'll try it and I tell you the result. (unless you find time before me).

[Makanyane]

Originally posted by Monkwarrior
Another experiment I had in mind (but not time to make it) was to change the internal name of the last level of government buildings, let's say to royal_palace.
Then to create a new building series called reforms, with only one level, called... guess ... imperial_palace. Would this new building trigger the Marius reform?

Be interesting to know if that works. I'd suggested earlier switching
'imperial_palace' and 'proconsuls_palace' internal names with each other.

In case that and / or your idea don't work - it has occurred to me since that it could be reaching 'Huge City' that triggers reform (city only becomes Huge City when last government building is built). Be interesting to know if anyone does manage to test...

[Shamo]

sound not easy to me ^-^
but thanks anyway

[Monkwarrior]

Be interesting to know if that works. I'd suggested earlier switching
'imperial_palace' and 'proconsuls_palace' internal names with each other.

In case that and / or your idea don't work - it has occurred to me since that it could be reaching 'Huge City' that triggers reform (city only becomes Huge City when last government building is built). Be interesting to know if anyone does manage to test...

Yesterday I found time to make the tests.

First I tried my idea: last level of governor building called "royal_palace" and new building set called "reform" with only one level called "imperial_palace".
Result: CTD in the loading screen. I don't know if the governor building names are hardcoded and then forbiden to be used in other buildings.

Secondly I tried your idea: I switched proconsuls_palace and imperial_palace in the levels of governor buildings.
Result: the game starts without problems. These are the facts:
- In Rome I have already a proconsuls palace. It is said that imperial palace is already built, but nothing happens.
- Capua grows from city to large_city, I build the imperial palace and nothing happens.
- Capua grows from large_city to huge_city. I build the proconsuls palace and... voilà! the Marius reform is triggered.

It seems to me then that the reform is hardcoded to be triggered when the last government building is constructed, irrespective of the name (unfortunately ).

Cheers.

[Epistolary Richard]

I believe the 'random element' that some people have mentioned was introduced in the v1.2 patch. I think (but may be wrong on this score) that is was removed in the v1.5 patch.

Once the proper date has passed, I've been thinking in terms of either: (1) creating this building in every settlement or (2) monitoring the ownership of each settlement with a campaign script and creating it only in Roman controlled settlements which didn't already have one. This new building would be a requirement for upgrading a Roman barracks to allow construction of the Marian reform units.

Both approaches are valid. If you want to see them in action then Res Gestae uses the first system for its reform and EB uses the second system.

In terms of needing to upgrading the barracks, it's possible to make the recruitment of a unit dependent on a second building (so that post-marian units can be built out of the same barracks, whilst the pre-marian troops are no longer available). Though v.1.5 introduced an annoying limit on this due to their click-through feature. Have a look at the Res Gestae export_descr_building file reform units for a working example.

[Atilius]

Yesterday I found time to make the tests...

...It seems to me then that the reform is hardcoded to be triggered when the last government building is constructed, irrespective of the name.

...so Makanyane is right: I'm sure this comes as a surprise to none of us.

MW, thanks very much for going to the trouble to figure this all out.

Both approaches are valid. If you want to see them in action then Res Gestae uses the first system for its reform and EB uses the second system.

It's good to know that those ideas are workable - I've had way too many of the other kind.

In terms of needing to upgrading the barracks, it's possible to make the recruitment of a unit dependent on a second building (so that post-marian units can be built out of the same barracks, whilst the pre-marian troops are no longer available). Though v.1.5 introduced an annoying limit on this due to their click-through feature. Have a look at the Res Gestae export_descr_building file reform units for a working example.

I've had some bad experiences using "building_present_min_level" on the "recruit" line. I've decided it's safer to use it (as the vanilla game does) as a precondition for a building upgrade. Am I being too conservative about this? In this case, the upgrade would have "recruit" lines for post-Marian troop types and not for the pre-Marian ones. This would require paying for and constructing the barracks upgrade and would allow recruitment of pre-Marian units in one settlement and post-Marian units in another, but I don't consider these points to be problematic.

Your suggestion that I have a look at the Res Gestae EDB is a good one; thanks.

[Makanyane]

originally posted by Atilius...
so Makanyane is right: I'm sure this comes as a surprise to none of us.

Yo, print and frame that comment! Unfortunately I was only right after being completely wrong on my first post!!

Monkwarrior thanks for testing that out, assume we now know reform requires last govenors building, to make huge_city in region with 'italy' resource. Only variable I'm not sure we pinned down is if roman faction has to occupy region. Did you work that out in your testing?

originally posted by Atilius...
I've had some bad experiences using "building_present_min_level" on the "recruit" line. I've decided it's safer to use it (as the vanilla game does) as a precondition for a building upgrade. Am I being too conservative about this?

No, there are some major flaws with using building conditional on recruit line in later RTW versions ( I think it used to work for 1.2 but doesn't for later), 1, visual only - the requires building bit appears on unit recruitment line in campaign. 2, if you apply it to buildings that have already have a bonus - like stage_races for hippodromes then you get a CTD when you view building in buildings list.

there are some others I don't entirely remember but I think there's a limit to the number of units in a building that can have conditional - and in some circumstances right clicking for unit info on a unit that has a building conditional will also cause CTD.

[Epistolary Richard]

I agree there are some problems with using "building_present_min_level" on the "recruit" line. Whenever I used it the game CTDed. However, what I found putting together the RG edb was that it can be used where the building you're recruiting out of isn't present at the start of the campaign. Hence in the RG edb all the Roman recruitment (almost) occurs out of a complex of reform buildings - the first of which are placed through a script at the beginning of the game. The subsequent are placed by script at certain times to denote the development of the military. The recruit lines in the reform buildings then use the building min level conditional to make them dependent on having a certain level of barrack, stables etc.

[lantern]

Very thaks friend!!!

[lantern]

Yesterday I found time to make the tests.

First I tried my idea: last level of governor building called "royal_palace" and new building set called "reform" with only one level called "imperial_palace".
Result: CTD in the loading screen. I don't know if the governor building names are hardcoded and then forbiden to be used in other buildings.

Secondly I tried your idea: I switched proconsuls_palace and imperial_palace in the levels of governor buildings.
Result: the game starts without problems. These are the facts:
- In Rome I have already a proconsuls palace. It is said that imperial palace is already built, but nothing happens.
- Capua grows from city to large_city, I build the imperial palace and nothing happens.
- Capua grows from large_city to huge_city. I build the proconsuls palace and... voilà! the Marius reform is triggered.

It seems to me then that the reform is hardcoded to be triggered when the last government building is constructed, irrespective of the name (unfortunately ).

Cheers.

Very thaks friend!!!