The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations III

[Braden]

Beg your pardon Senator Paullus but isn’t the very essence of defending our borders as the Senate requires, RE-Active rather than PRO-Active?

In the East we must wait to see if the bloody nose we have given the Selucids deters them from further incursions, we have no mandate from the Senate beyond this other than to re-enforce and ensure they no longer can lay claim to our cities or walk un-contested in their streets.

Are you suggesting we take a more pro-active approach as we are doing in Afrika perhaps?

I believe the Motions passed last session prohibited further expansion in Europe also, so does this not answer the Question of Thrace? The Senate has basically instructed that our offensive ceases with them hasn’t it?

Does this also appear “event driven” to you Senator rather than the other way round?

Do not forget the Consul is bound as much as he can to fulfil the Motions the Senate has presented to him.

An invasion of Afrika and therefore Carthage was permitted……further than that is dependant on the actions of the other states around us rather than dictated by ourselves at this time as no approval was given from the Senate for other offensive actions.

But that would certainly not preclude any offensive actions where ever they are deemed as required to defend our cities as per one of our first Motions.

[Lucjan]

(OOC - Just to clear something up, because I think there might be a little confusion. UPS Maximus is Servius's freeman clerk, speaking for him in the senate while Servius himself is away on campaign. Most of what is said is the clerk's interpretation of Servius's feelings, not necessarily the precise thing. Servius's exact feelings can be seen in the consular reports, battle reports, and when UPS informs the senate that "a message from the consul has arrive". Just clearing up some confusion. )


UPS Maximus - Then some may clearly be incapable of seeing the prudence in patience. A goal must be set, but the path to it must be flexible, otherwise you walk straight into a brash, unnecessary defeat.

Look at the situation like this senator Paullus. If I am a cat and you are a mouse, and there is a piece of cheese in the center of the floor. Do you brazenly rush from your hiding place, as I sit beside the cheese, and hope to the gods I do not catch you? Or do you wait for me to go away, biding your time for the perfect oppertunity to strike and return home unharmed? The situation is that simple. Such brazen acts, charging in without truly knowing the gravity of the situation, cost us two co consuls in the last consulship. Able, cunning, and valuable men to the Republic, lost because they were not properly informed of the whole state of affairs. They did their duty to Rome, and they payed the ultimate price for it. Consul Servius would prefer the alternative. As we have already seen, his tactics have worked superbly thus far, based on reliable intelligence, co-operation and prudent, patient planning. Would you have us do the opposite, and rush in swords drawn and blind? I would not, nor does the consul. Strategy, patience, and guile. These are the practices that win wars, and these are the practices this consul employs.

Further more, a "more critical man" may also be unable to tell the difference between his ass and a hole in the ground, provided they're roughly the same size, shape, and he can fit his head equally well in both of them. The consul knows exactly what his intentions are. But as it has already been said, the path must be flexible. We have a present state, and we have a future goal, but the time in between these two points will be wrought with change and unexpected events that must be worked around to secure a proper victory, a proper achievement of our goal. Think of it as a river senator. Have you ever seen a river flow completely straight from its source to its mouth? No, rivers wind and bend, and weave for a great length before they spill into the sea, because the river knows it is much easier to wind around the hill than to try to plow straight through it. It is logic, it is flexibility. The Republic, right now, is like a river. The question is, would you rather us take our victories and our goals in stride so that we can reach our golden goal and claim victory over adversity? Or would you have us dash ourselves upon every rock we encounter, until the waters of the Republic are so splintered and broken, that they are merely absorbed once more into the ground, and its very existance is forgotten with the passage of time?

I, for one, choose victory. Flexibility, patience, strategy, guile, wisdom, and daring. These are the virtues our first consul has chosen to exhibit. Let me ask you all, especially senators Aureolus and Coruncanius, whose own tactical prowess in battle have brought them great, resounding victories when used in compliance with our consul's strategy. Could the strategy of any other man have repulsed the Seleucids entirely from Roman lands in a single season's time?

Anything else senator Paullus?

[Glaucus]

Senators, I speak before you. I have rarely done so before, so that I am speaking at all must let you know the gravity of the situation. I know that most senators here are cought up between the eastern and western fronts, but you may have forgotten the still-active north front. Thrace is far from defeated. There are 2 legion sized forces in the south of her lands, within a few seasons march from undefended roman settlements. Not to mention the near-consular sized army in the north. I, Quintus Libo, command only a small, understrength legion, yet the consul has made it clear that he intends to set me up against a force twice my size. I know that in the past I have shown my prowess as a general, (38-1 kill-lose ratio at last count, yes thank you) but all you have seen of me is fighting forces who at most have 200 more men then I, and no general. If you send me against a larger force headed by the overlord of thrace with many of his son's bodyguards present... you may not be pleased with the results. I do not ask for more soldiers, I ask that we revise our policy concerning the northern front. We are in a multi-front war right now because we overexpanded. The last thing on the senate's mind right now should be taking more land. Please do not send me against the collosal thracian horde, I am too young to die! Let me instead pick apart any smaller groups of thracians, let me lie in ambush for them, let me fight on my terms. "The only thing worse then no battle is a battle lost". If you send the Germanic Legion at the Thracian heart, we will all die. If you let us fall back and take it slower, we will win in the end.

[Lucjan]

There is a look of severe confusion on UPS's face.

Your navigators are quite confused senator. You are, indeed marching in the completely opposite direction you claim to be. And I have never stated that you would embark on such an expedition. That would be reckless, unnecessary, and certainly no order given by consul Servius. Actually, I would like to see documentation proving that I specifically said the consul gave such an order.

What I did say, was that you, and others, would be used to attack Thracian forces in Thracian lands, yes. But I never said you would go on such a foolish assault as the one you suggest. Like I said, have your navigators check their maps, they're telling you that you're somewhere you're not. You, and others, like Lucius Aemilius is doing now, will be used to attack Thracian forces inside Thracian lands, yes. But with the intent to defeat them and scatter them before they reach our borders.

To think that Consul Servius would send you to Vicus Marcomanni, well...that's just silly. Take a look at the senate motions themselves. The senate tried to pass a motion to send you there. However; Consul Servius voted against the motion. You have nothing to worry about senator Quintus. You are in good hands, we would not let such a valuable man fall ill to a poorly thought campaign.

(OOC - Take a look at the latest save game, it's 255-winter-lucius.zip in the upload directory. Autoresolve the battle or whatever just so you can get a good look at where you yourself are. You're marching back to Viberi, , far, far away from Vicus Marcomanni and their overlord's army.

EDIT - Note that that save game was placed there before your post was made. Just a bit of a mix up, it's ok.)

[Mount Suribachi]

My my, how people deduce an entire strategy I have in mind based merely on my wondering out loud just what the Consuls plans are. What more can I say? You have already deconstructed "my" strategy.

[Lucjan]

UPS - I never said anything of any strategy you may have.

But when you accuse the consul of not knowing what he is doing, and of allowing other men to drive the course of history while he sits by and goes with the flow, then you should be quite ready for a lecture. Such things are a direct insult to the consul, who I have tried to explain to you is most certainly the man moving our current events more than any of our rival faction's leaders. Just because there are no blatant invasions or brash charges does not mean that it is not so. So far, they have all played right into his hands, and even the rather commendable attempts of the Seleucids to counter the consul's tactics have been defeated.

[Mount Suribachi]

I never said that you didn't know what you are doing. I said some men might think that. I never called for "blatant invasions" or "brash charges".

And despite all your posturing and lecturing and philosophising like some kind of Greek, you still haven't clearly explained your strategy in the east, aside from some vague and wooly cliches.