Getting on with battles.

[Magraev]

I need some help to pass time on a friday afternoon at work

So I thought I'd discuss strategy - specifically opening strategy for a battle with fairly standard sa/ys army where I'm the agressor (and where I'm counting on winning).

I usually start with the units in the default positions and formations, the only change being putting the archers on loose formation.

I most often make two largely identical main groups composed of the following:

each gets one of the two frontline archers and at least one more. This is the frontline of the group. Behind these i place the infantry at regular intervals, ready to charge through the archers when needed.

Hatamoto, yc and ca are used primarily as pursuers (ca as skirms too naturally).

These groups are then advanced across the battlefield on the left and right side until the enemy presents itself, and then we stand off with one and attempt to flank with the other (and the loose units).

That's basically it - is there something basically wrong with this setup. I could sure use some inspiration.

I had a funny battle yesterday when a fundamental flaw appeared in this strategy. I was Takeda attacking the Oda province just west of Shinano. We had the same number of troops, but he had ya to my ys, so I wasn't worried. The province has two peaks on the attackers side of the map, so I sent one half of the army around each side. When my leftside army made it to the top of their hill it kinda bumped into the full Oda army.

The right side of my army was climbing a steep hill far away, so I had actually isolated myself. Well I still hade the height advantage so after some archer fire I charged my 4 ys against his 7-8 ya and 2 ys. All my units wavered, and I charged the 2 sa aswell, finally breaking the ashies. It was kinda close for a while though.

Naturally this tactics often results in one group taking the brunt of the initial fighting, but I often find, that the other group kan rout the enemy when they arrive.

Any comments (plz)?

[candidgamera]

Magraev:

You have to be careful getting your forces spread out I find, situation sounds familiar.
Place your general so he can be seen by both groups, somewhere between them (of course don't put him in a position where he can get wacked)-helps on morale.

Speaking on campaign battles, not online:

Later on after guns I like to have about a 3 SA/2 MU mix.
*Lead off with SA at head of a column, MU unit behind 3 deep.
*2 MU allows one to be rapid fire 3 deep, one to be mass fire 2 deep.
*Too many more missile troops and the army doesn't have enough ass in basic YS, ect to hang once engaged.
*Use short rushes/firing with MU to continually keep an enemy on the run, once he's generally broken.

Cav: I 180 my cav if they come in contact with Yari troops - straight back from their current direction of travel - so they don't reform moving into and getting killed by Yari or other. In Pursuit: Long line, making sure line of contact with enemy is always at their rear - herding him off map.

Like to use 80 man default - nice balance I find - enough troops without the cost, more readily recombined.

regards,
candidgamera

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"If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented.
The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then even the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make
plans against it." Sun Tzu

[ShaiHulud]

Yah, your problem could well be the distance from your Taisho to the flanking troops. It's not necessarily fatal if you coordinate your attacks.

In the case you describe, tho, your troops in action were outnumbered and probably losing troops twice as fast as your enemy. Add that to a distant Taisho and they'll waver in no time. You're certain to see the AI try to flank a group outnumbered by so much, too. That, also, detracts from their wavering morale.

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[Tachikaze]

But, ShaiHulud, don't forget to add condition to the equation. The split army's second group will be Fresh or Quite Fresh when they arrive at the melee. And it will be assured of some lovely flanking possiblities.

Put the taisho in a cav unit and have it present at the combat area. If away from the first group when a melee begins, it can arrive to lend morale support before the second force arrives.

But splitting your force is very risky. I always love it when my opponent tries it.

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Weapons are not auspicious.
He who beautifies them,
Enjoys killing others.

[ShaiHulud]

Tachi...correct. There are so many conditions we could mention. Was just trying to give him a handle on the dangers of a split force. Your idea of a cav Taisho is a good one.

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[Magraev]

Thanks for the insightfull replies.

I can see the point about splitting the forces. In the battle I mentioned I was actually counting on him waiting for me in a defensive position, but it's nice to see, that it takes advantage, when I make a mistake. The one reason I didn't go down may well be, that I had a certain mr. Shingen as taisho for the battle, and although he wasn't close to the actual fighting, the honor-bonus was probably what saved me. I did take some losses though - as I recall, the first ys to join battle had about 15 men left when it was over. His losses did outnumber mine in the end about 2-1, but this was mostly pursuit casualties as a result of his forward deployment.

I'm a little confused about your mu setup Candid. If the sa are in front of them won't they be cut down by friendly fire, or do you count on redeploying them to the front before battle ?

[candidgamera]

Magraev:

Clarification:
SA have the longer range, and the MU are behind them. I redeploy from column to line before friendly fire is an issue - MU upfront backed by nags (no philosophers - other post - he he), or YS. Think Shogun really does nice job of letting you do Thirty Years War Musket/Pike tactics.

Also, I think that gun units have a demoralizing effect on opposing troops especially YA. Have had otherwise healthy opposing YA come on, get with a couple shots of gun, and then run away.

Had an interesting battle recently that set up something else I like to do. Got missile troops, guns and SA, set up flanking opponents retreat route. Then got him on the run - missile troops made bad situation even worse. Have to be careful that missile troops not in routing unit direction of travel - or they end up in melee. This also good when AI attacks with just 1-3 units - move missile troops to fire into flank - like Vermont troops firing into Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg.

Earlier comment about cav applies to missile troops too - march 'em 180 away, not sideways - so they don't get into melee reforming.

Bridge crossings, castle entry:
Form up into columns 4-5 abreast to move overbridge, through gates faster.
Have had situations where units got stuck a while I think because of the formation they were in trying to go over bridge/through castle gate.

Also re above comment on line of cav: remember that overall unit honor based on constituent individual soldiers in unit, so in pursuit line gives more individual soldiers chance to take heads, gain honor, in turn raise overall unit honor.

Probably, missing out/get killed online for this, but: still moving units individually, and use spacebar(showing future position)/pause to get positioning right for army moved forward. Find flexibility this way. I don't focus on exactly where unit to move, its enough to get them moving in the general direction of position desired, and then make adjustments.

At length,
candidgamera

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"If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented.
The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then even the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make
plans against it." Sun Tzu