Which Graphics Card?

[Master_Thief]

You sure do like the 7600 gt! But i'm going to stick with the x850 pro. It has a better fan, processes more textures per clock, and has a bigger memory bandwidth (34.56 gb/s as opposed to 22.4 for the 7600), plus it isn't bundled with Serious Sam 2 which has got to be a good thing! Anyway, if anyone can answer my previous question then i'll be eternally greatful.

[Geezer57]

Hey all. I still haven't got the card but I will once I know one more thing. The x850 pro requires a minimum of a 300w psu but recommends a higher version. I have a 300w psu. Will the computer still run properly even thogh I only just pass the minimum requirement or will it have bad side effects, because if so then its game over for me and my new card: I need the computer to work perfectly as its for work as well as play.

If your current 300w power supply is a good one, you should be fine. However, there's a lot of cheap stuff out there masquerading as quality, so be sure to monitor your machine closely after installing the new card for the first time. One nice thing about staying with the ATI brand is that the drivers for your new card will be compatible with your old one - if you have any suspicious behavior, you can always yank out the new card and put the old one back in. Then you can go shopping for a good new power supply, should that prove necessary, and still keep using your computer.

[Master_Thief]

Cheers. That sounds like pretty good advice. I think my power supply is pretty good though, since the rest of the computer is excellent. Another thing: the fan on my psu is covered in dust. I don't suppose you know how to clean this (and also how to clean the inside of a computer in general)?

[Master_Thief]

This is my power supply - http://www.fsp-group.com.tw/english/...d=52&proid=212

Its not cheap and crappy is it?

[Geezer57]

Hard to tell much from the published specifications - they're all proprietary to each manufacturer anyway, so can vary a lot from one manufacturer to another. Seems to be sound enough - I've seen some with a little more amperage on the 12v rail. But much of what determines the "quality" of a power supply is largely subjective - is it heavy, does it use good brand capacitors, etc.
I'd just try the new video card with the current P/S, if it acts up, go shopping.

[orangat]

You sure do like the 7600 gt! But i'm going to stick with the x850 pro. It has a better fan, processes more textures per clock, and has a bigger memory bandwidth (34.56 gb/s as opposed to 22.4 for the 7600), plus it isn't bundled with Serious Sam 2 which has got to be a good thing! Anyway, if anyone can answer my previous question then i'll be eternally greatful.

One of the quads is disabled. Its definitely has a lower texture fillrate compared to the 7600gt. The bottom line is that the 7600gt is faster and runs cooler. The only reason to get the x850pro is to unlock it.

[Master_Thief]

I'm pretty sure the connect3d x850 pro is unlockable, as there are plenty of contented customers out there who have said so. However, you are beginning to swing me towards the 7600 gt Orangat. The only thing which really puts me off is the fact that the Leadtek is so butt ugly. Just look at these picks of the x850 pro - http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...Tab=1&NoMapp=0

Thats a stupid reason I know, but also the increased price is abit off-putting. £10 isn't much, but its still more, and with that amount I culd buy a 12cm fan instead. It isn't me who will be paying, so the price is more of a concern than it would have been if it were my money. Anyway, when I get the card (whichever one it is) I will follow your advice, Geezer47, on what to do about the PSU. Once again (and hopefully for the last time ), thanks everyone.

[orangat]

I don't 'like' the 7600gt. Unlike many others in this forum, I don't recommend components just because I own one or 'like' one.

I recommended the 7600gt because its faster than the 7800gs (albeit by a hair) and the x850pro. And more importantly it consumes relatively little power. Whereas the x8xx series were the biggest power hogs in their day. Whats the point of saving 10BGP when you have an old borderline psu?

[Master_Thief]

Fair point. But according to the Leadtek website, the 7600 gt also requires a minimum of 300w for the psu. I'll just continue weighing up the options. I think either way there will be another round of drinking on this thread when I get the card, whichever one it will be.

[orangat]

Manufacturer websites are unreliable guides on psu guidelines. I had found that the video card manufacturer recommendations to be arbitrary and wrong at times. In the case of the 7600gt, the 300W recommendation is arbitrary because there are practically no psus below 300W these days and anything lower is probably not atx12v compliant.

Since the 7600gt consumes only half the power of the x850xt and power supplies degrade over time, the 7600gt is a prudent choice.

[Master_Thief]

Ok I think you've nearly convinced me. Just a few more questions. How do you know so much about this card? I've looked for reviews everywhere and I can't find a thing? Secondly, why is it called Winfast? An d finally is the fan any good? It looks noisy, ugly, and it chucks all the hot air back into the case. The x850 pro has a nice big fan that exhausts it all out the back (suuposedly). Or is the fan not the important issue here?

[Geezer57]

Master Thief, there's a good roundup of midrange cards over at Anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2812&p=1) that includes the 7600GT. They even included factory-overclocked cards, and got respectable numbers.

[Master_Thief]

Alright, i'm convinced. It is a pretty good card.

[frogbeastegg]

The card should be here tomorrow, at long last. :grumble: Just in time for me to work day after day, all day, so I barely have time to do anything with the computer. Delays are evil

So it's finally time to ask about drivers; I'm years out of date with nVidea drivers, and don't know which is generally the best set to aim for. Official, or one of the unofficials? If someone could give me the general view, and then aim me at the best current set, that would be nice.

[Geezer57]

I'm quite fond of the Omega Drivers (http://www.omegadrivers.net/), which alteady contain many tweaks and optimizations. Just install and go!

[Beirut]

The card should be here tomorrow, at long last.

Whajaget? Whajaget?

So it's finally time to ask about drivers; I'm years out of date with nVidea drivers, and don't know which is generally the best set to aim for. Official, or one of the unofficials? If someone could give me the general view, and then aim me at the best current set, that would be nice.

Drivers are sometimes game dependent (or is that the other way around?).

For instance, I'm using drivers for my Nvidia card that best suit the Il2 flightsim series. But these drivers are neither the newest nor the best available for most games, just for IL2.

[frogbeastegg]

I got the wrong thread. I meant to post in my own topic. Oops. That's me and my several tabs doing several things at once again :sigh: Would be nice if there was a way to move this accidental hijack over …

I got the AGP 7600gt. Drivers are games dependent, but usually there's one set which stands out as being particularly good for most games, just as there are occasional sets which are notorious for having problems. Usually. I just want a decent set to install at the start, so I don't have to go and fetch another set and update them after the installation. No idea what drivers will come with the card, but from my experience with my last three cards the bundled drivers are likely to be a bit outdated and not so hot. If it were an ATI card I’d know what I want; I haven’t looked at nvidea drivers since I replaced my old geforce 3.

[Beirut]

I got the AGP 7600gt.

Oh... you got the 7600 card Orangat was talking about. Not the 7800 I was recommending.

That's ok, that's ok. I know he's smarter than me... I'm sure it's a very good card and you'll enjoy it a great deal.


I'll, uh... be in the Backroom drunk thread if you're looking for me... Sniff.

[Master_Thief]

Don't worry about the hijacking. You've simply revived my thread which isn't such a bad thing, especially as i'm finally on the verge of ordering the new card i've been pondering over for weeks. Its the same one as yours, so let me know what its like if you could. Cheers.

[Master_Thief]

Two posts in the same minute. How did we manage that?! Don't worry Beirut, beer sooths all wounds.

[frogbeastegg]

:Passes Beirut a nice cup of sake: You nearly had me persuaded, and in fact one of the main reasons I chose the 7600gt is because it was so similar to a card you are obviously very happy with. In the end the deciding factor between the two was the cost; very similar, and with one £80 cheaper. I'm really eager to see the kind of difference you described when you made the swap from your own 7800 pro. I've even taken a few screenshots so I can compare :feels a bit sad now:

Master Thief: I shall.

[Beirut]

In the end the deciding factor between the two was the cost; very similar, and with one £80 cheaper. I'm really eager to see the kind of difference you described when you made the swap from your own 7800 pro. I've even taken a few screenshots so I can compare :feels a bit sad now:

80 pounds cheaper? That's a considrable sum.

In all truth, if Orangat say it's a good card, then more than likely it's a good card. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Looking forward to your positive review.

[DukeofSerbia]

I got the AGP 7600gt.

How you found it? Only model in market is from Leadtek and it's impossible to buy it! On newegg.com is always out of stock.

I'm really eager to see the kind of difference you described when you made the swap from your own 7800 pro.

Such card doesn't exist. Only 7800GS for AGP. nVidia never had Pro in names of cards, only ATI.

[Master_Thief]

Froggy got the card from www.overclockers.co.uk which is a british website, though it is possible to have the product shipped to countries in Europe. I've also ordered the same card from there. I haven't found it anywhere else. I'm not sure if Serbia is covered by the company but if you're interested it might be worth checking out.

[frogbeastegg]

Beirut and I both had Radeon 9800 pro 128MBs.

The card arrived on Tuesday. I fitted it that evening, a smooth enough process barring the fact I didn't know that it takes a bit of time for the card to start working, so a black monitor does not invariably mean the card isn't in place properly. I didn't get to test it until yesterday morning, a quick 20 minutes before work. The results were ... disappointing. The driver install must be bad. I'm using the latest officla drivers. It did crash during my first attempt to install, but the subsequent install over the top of the unfinished install went fine; I had it overwrite everything.

I got glitches in both games I tried; black speckles in CivCity: Rome, and the occasional funky red/orange/flame coloured sprite infantry in BI, along with a unit of invisible cavalry. I was using the Goth mod, but I'd been playing it with my old card without such issues, so I know it relates to the new one. BI did look better and performance smoothed out nicely, but it wasn't the big leap I had expected and still I have to leave some settings turned off/down. CivCity: Rome still looked ugly, though I was using a slightly lower resolution than my LCD's native one because 1280X1024 is bugged. That wouldn't have helped.

Got to be the drivers. Got to be. Else I've been sent a 7600GS in disguise.

Oh – and for those who said I couldn’t have AGP and PCI Express slots, I do. One big white one, and two smaller ones. If only I had thought to check the board; I had forgotten the motherboard has all the slots labelled with nice useful lettering.

Anyway, I'm going to try removing and reinstalling those drivers.

[Geezer57]

Froggy, new graphics cards often need to seated, unseated, reseated many times before they make good connection with the contacts in the expansion slot. There's often oxidation on those contacts, and the seating/reseating process cleans that off.

For your driver problems, I recommend Driver Cleaner Pro (http://www.drivercleaner.net/professional.php). It's free, has good instructions, and works well to eliminate any "residue" of old alternative (ATI) drivers.
I also like the Omega Drivers (http://www.omegadrivers.net/nvidia.php), they have many optimizations already performed on them (you can choose between Quality and Performance installs).

[Cebei]

How long do you think current 1gb sli nvidia 7950s will last? Can I still be able to play newer games 4 years later?

[x-dANGEr]

Gah poor Froggy.. Discouraging news.. (BUt.. I'm sure I will get a huge leap if I change to anything from my 5200.. Right..)

P.S. Please say right 0-i

[Geezer57]

How long do you think current 1gb sli nvidia 7950s will last? Can I still be able to play newer games 4 years later?

If the past is any indication, you'll be struggling to keep up with newer games four years from now.

Four years ago, Pentium 4 Northwoods (w/ single channel memory controller i845G chipsets) were fighting it out with AMD Athlon XP's on NForce2 mobo's, mostly in the 2.5/2.8Ghz performance rating range. 512Mb of RAM was considered a lot. The newly-released ATI Radeon 9700 Pro was the just-crowned King-of-the-Hill (see article: http://www.tomshardware.com/2002/08/...ro_/index.html).

A setup like that, without upgrades, would be pretty handicapped today. Still fine for general-purpose computing, and playing older game titles, but outdated for the newest generation games. I like to step a bit back from the bleeding-edge hardware, and focus instead on less-expensive alternatives that still offer almost as much performance. Instead of two GeForce 7950GS2's at over $1000, why not select a pair of 7900GS's for about $400, and put the savings in the bank. Then in two years or so, you'll have an upgrade fund available for whatever "best bang for the buck" hardware is being offered.

[Master_Thief]

I just installed and tested my new 7600 gt. It runs like a dream. Plays Oblivion and Battlefield 2 on full graphics and has also had the effect of decreasing the CPU temperature and subsequently reducing the CPU fan speed (though only by a tiny amount). Oblivion still crashed after playing, but hey, thats just Oblivion and I love it.

I'm sorry to hear about your card froggy. I haven't tried RTW yet so i've yet to see how that fares. I used the drivers from the CD that was provided and they seem to work fine. Perhaps you should give them a go. Good Luck!

Oh yeah I just remembered. I did take a look at the latest Nvidia drivers and one of the main updates was support for the 7600 GS AGP card. This leads me to suspect that because the Leadtek card is the only AGP 7600 GT available, their drivers are the only ones that support it. Whether this is true or not I don't know. If you do use the provided drivers a message will appear stating something about them not being tested for Windows XP. Just ignore this and it should work fine.