Parthian lineup with Elephants

**Conqueror** · 08-22-2006, 23:01

My suggestion is to use the Elephants in cooperation with Cataphracts. Have your elephants charge 'through' the enemy units (ie don't order them to attack the unit, instead direct them to run to a spot behind the unit) and as soon as they have passed through (they quite literally just plow through units!) you order your cataphracts to charge.

Elephant-plowing causes the enemy units to become disordered, which makes them very vulnerable to a cavalry charge. They also inflict a severe morale penalty which basically guarantees that all but the most elitest units will route as soon as the cataphract charge hits them. Quite a few units might route just from the elephants alone.

Do keep in mind that the beasts are vulnerable to javelins and pilums, and that some units (such as Velites) have a bonus against them. They are also scared of fire arrows. Use your horse archers to destroy enemy velites and archers before bringing you elephants to bear. Good luck with your battles.

**Drusus Magnus** · 08-22-2006, 23:37

Yeah, look out for archers. I once faced the Egyptians with Seleucid elephants. The Egyptians had like 5 Pharao's Bowmen units, and they ordered them all to fire flaming arrows at my one unit... Elephants are great for distracting the dimwitted AI.

**lars573** · 08-23-2006, 01:01

I regard elephants, of any faction. As living siege weapons. Very powerful but very vulnerable. My Parthian armies, at a full stack is.
1 General
1 War elephants
2 Cataphracts or cataphract camels
2 Arab or Bedouin cavalry (I modded the game to make them recruitable by the Parthians and Armenia

)
2 archers
4 hillmen
or
4 archers
2 eastern infantry
8 persian cavalry or HA (but usually Persian cavalry)

I put the ranged cav in front. With the Infantry and general in a block behind. The cata's on one flank, the elephants and melee light cav on the other.

**x-dANGEr** · 08-23-2006, 09:44

Just like you would do with the Sass on BI..

Charge with ele unit, and then steam roll with all your catas.. (I prefer around 9 units) and win.. Next stack, repeat and win, etc..

**orangat** · 08-24-2006, 01:02

Charging with 9 units of elephants isn't exactly the best strategy since it takes a huge amount of cash and clumsy. And keeping tabs on 9 units to make sure they don't rout is cumbersome as well.

I would use the elephants to cover horse archers.

**CountMRVHS** · 08-24-2006, 04:27

Thanks for the input everyone.

I'm pretty sure xdanger meant 9 units of cataphracts, not elephants. Regardless, I'm quite a ways away from that yet.

Susa just built the 3rd-level stable, and, when confronted with the option of training War Elephants or Cataphracts first, I went with Cataphracts. Reason being, I haven't had any pure melee units this entire game, apart from light mercs like Arab Cavalry. I've used the standard surround 'em & shoot 'em approach with HAs, but my general rule has been to avoid melee at all costs until the enemy is routing. With Cats, I can wear them down and then charge in, which should help bring battles to a decision more quickly.

The nature of my enemies is also about to change considerably. My light, HA-heavy armies have worked miracles against Seleucia's mobs of militia hoplites and phalanxes, but now that my allies the Egyptians turned on me over a dispute in Judaea (I noticed they were moving an army toward rebel-held Jerusalem so I besieged it first, then they attacked me), the same tactics are earning me a much higher casualty count. The Egyptians are fielding fairly mixed forces of bowmen, slingers, desert cav, and the dreaded chariots. All this means my HAs can't simply surround and destroy in detail as they'd prefer: they get chased around and caught up in melee far more frequently.

In addition to the Egyptians, I imagine my ally Pontus won't look kindly on my interference in Anatolia. I have an army besieging the Seleucids in Sardis right now. Once I take the town, I give the Pontics maybe 10 turns before they show their true colors and stab me in the back. I'll have to deal with their light-cav-heavy armies and hope for the best.

So, the addition of a heavy strike force to my armies is welcome indeed. I'm training a couple cats in Susa now, to join up with a larger force of Persian cav and HAs, and then send them down towards Egypt to try them out. After that, I'll try out the elephants. I imagine they'll really come into their own once I face Roman legions. The way things are going now, that clash could take place either in Africa with the Scipii or in Greece with the Brutii. Or maybe the Romans will surprise me and invade *my* realm.

Thanks again for the advice, and keep it coming!

CountMRVHS

**Doug-Thompson** · 08-24-2006, 20:32

Originally Posted by lars573

I regard elephants, of any faction. As living siege weapons.

I agree with that, and take it quite literally.

Notice that elephants are slower than cavalry on the battle map, but just as fast as cavalry on the strategy map. I presume that this is because "speed" is much the same as endurance on the strategy map. Elephants walk faster than men and can keep it up longer, therefore they're "cavalry" on the strategy map.

This makes them just the thing to go from one barbarian province to another with an all-cavalry army. Smash down the city gate and let the cataphracts do the rest.

Against more advanced factions, I use elephants as super fire support units. I move them to a spot where the enemy's making some headway, alt-attack so they will use the archers and not charge, and add their arrow fire to the HA. The result is usually panic and massacre.

**x-dANGEr** · 08-24-2006, 20:57

Charging with 9 units of elephants isn't exactly the best strategy since it takes a huge amount of cash and clumsy. And keeping tabs on 9 units to make sure they don't rout is cumbersome as well.

I meant catas.

The nature of my enemies is also about to change considerably. My light, HA-heavy armies have worked miracles against Seleucia's mobs of militia hoplites and phalanxes, but now that my allies the Egyptians turned on me over a dispute in Judaea (I noticed they were moving an army toward rebel-held Jerusalem so I besieged it first, then they attacked me), the same tactics are earning me a much higher casualty count. The Egyptians are fielding fairly mixed forces of bowmen, slingers, desert cav, and the dreaded chariots. All this means my HAs can't simply surround and destroy in detail as they'd prefer: they get chased around and caught up in melee far more frequently.

Against Egyptians with Parthia.. The only thing you have that can effectively kill chariots in melee is elephants.. Too bad I guess. You can pin them with Desert Cavalry and then charge them with Catas, but that path is costly..

**Doug-Thompson** · 08-24-2006, 21:45

Re: Chariots.

Mercenary camels panic their horses too, which is entertaining. Just be sure to stay away from them. Panicked chariots are almost as dangerous as elephants.

**Manstein** · 08-24-2006, 21:47

Against Egyptians with Parthia.. The only thing you have that can effectively kill chariots in melee is elephants.. Too bad I guess. You can pin them with Desert Cavalry and then charge them with Catas, but that path is costly..

What about infantry? A large mass of semi-upgraded Eastern Infantry can take down a few chariot units. Chariots are vulnerable to even weak infantry. Especially when they are spearmen and recieve a combat bonus, but of course depending on what difficulty you play, your Eastern Infantry can rout quite easily, because chariots already cause a devaluation in morale to foot units.