Considering a new graphics card

[frogbeastegg]

What are my best options? Time was I kept an idle eye on developments. These days I only know that the new geforce card is supposed to be amazing ... I can't even remember the name of the cursed thing.

ATI or nVidia, I don't care. Performance, cost, and quietness are the important things.

Frog upgrade philosophy: Get something nice and muscley so I won't have to change it for another three or so years. I want to be playing games at 1280X1024 with settings to max for a long time before having to start inching down. Means I might pay a bit more for a powerful card, but it also means I don't have to buy and go through the hassle of changing it as often.

I don't play FPS any more, but some of the strategy games I like can be intensive; Caesar IV looks like it will be very demanding if you want all the eyecandy on. If M2TW turns out to be something I want, then I want to be playing it with the settings maxed; I'd always had to play RTW on medium and put up with it being stroppy in large battles and city assaults.

I don't want a repeat of what happened with my current card - the lack on on-board RAM held it back long before anything else. So nothing which is going to wobble because of one uneven aspect, or which isn't decently future proofed.

Current specs:
P4 3.0
2GB DDR RAM
Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB, lightly cooked after a power surge a year ago.
A recent motherboard ... about a year old, with PCI express, AGP, yadda yadda.

Budgets ... meh, I recently got offered a promotion at work, so I'll have more money. At worst I'll just have to wait another month before buying. That said, I don't want to buy one only to have to drop to half price the week after. So if that's likely to happen, warn me and I'll wait.

[Geezer57]

There's a nice article at HardOCP, one that includes both high-end single-GPU cards and CrossFire/SLI/QuadSLI multiple-GPU performance (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...50aHVzaWFzdA==).

[Master_Thief]

[QUOTE=frogbeastegg]about a year old, with PCI express, AGP, yadda yadda.

You can't have both PCI-Express and AGP, its either one or t'other. Make sure you know which one you have; it makes a big difference.

[frogbeastegg]

It definitely has AGP, because that is what my current card is. However, I'm positive I remember some stuff about PCI Express on the box, manual etc. A box and manual I no longer have. :grumble: Alright, how can I check this? I can't remember the model or name of the board. I can open the case up, but I don't know what I'm looking for.

Er, I don't really understand the benefits of PCI express. I only know it's newer, and is making AGP obsolete, and that needing AGP narrows the field for selection because many new cards aren't AGP.

[Beirut]

I feel hurricane Orangat ready to strike land right about here sometime soon.

As far as AGP cards go, the 7800GS is the best you can get as far as I know. I have one and I like it very, very much. It was a qualitative and quantitative improvement over my 9800 Pro, which was in itself a very good card. The 7800GS handles the Shader 3 option that improves graphics tremendously on some games, runs quiet, good FPS, is stable, and gives me really good performance in all my games.

(I have the BFG model of the 7800GS, it received good reviews and has a good warranty.)
http://www.bfgtech.com/7800GS_256.html

[orangat]

I feel hurricane Orangat ready to strike land right about here sometime soon.
.........

*Lands on Beirut with the force of a thunderclap and knocks him sideways*

I suggest the 7600gt. There will be an agp version soon (maybe in a few weeks) retailing for about $130-150. And the performance will be close to that of the 7800gs.

[SwordsMaster]

It definitely has AGP, because that is what my current card is. However, I'm positive I remember some stuff about PCI Express on the box, manual etc. A box and manual I no longer have. :grumble: Alright, how can I check this? I can't remember the model or name of the board. I can open the case up, but I don't know what I'm looking for.

Er, I don't really understand the benefits of PCI express. I only know it's newer, and is making AGP obsolete, and that needing AGP narrows the field for selection because many new cards aren't AGP.

PCI Express allows you to use more than ine graphic card collaboratively, kinda like Dual Core of sorts. You could technically have 1 card in an AGP slot, and another one in a PCI Express slot, and to your PC they would look like one gigantic GPU with the aglomerated dedicated memory of both.

Which of course yields to peculiar theoretical combinations (Is a 64 mb PCI express + 256mb AGb better than a 128 mb PCI Express and a 64mb AGP?).

[Geezer57]

It definitely has AGP, because that is what my current card is.

Your motherboard is unlikely to support both AGP and PCI Express x16 interfaces (PCIe-x16), as very few were ever manufactured, and those that were proved unpopular. Maybe you're confusing the older PCI expansion slots with PCIe? If not, and there are PCIe slots on board, they may very likely be only PCIe-x1 or -x4 slots, which don't provide the best bandwidth for graphics cards.

Er, I don't really understand the benefits of PCI express. I only know it's newer, and is making AGP obsolete, and that needing AGP narrows the field for selection because many new cards aren't AGP.

There's a fairly short and not-too-technical article on Microsoft's website (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device..._graphics.mspx) that gives a general overview of PCI Express.

If you're stuck with AGP, as orangat says the GeForce 7600GT's will soon be available at bargain prices with mucho bang for the buck. Should your heart be set on max graphics capability, then you'll need to factor in at least an new motherboard to gain PCIe.

[frogbeastegg]

Gah! Double gah! Brain .... hurting ... too ... much ... techstuff ... in ... off-site ... reviews!

Anyone got a link to a site which prices cards in UK pounds? I'm floating about unable to see how much any of these cost in meaningful numbers. Dollars mean nothing to me, and there's nearly always a difference in price between countries anyway.

New mobo = more expense and reinstalling windows. I can and have reinstalled windows more than once. I've never plonked in new components myself. A graphics card sounds simple enough ... remove old drivers, shut down PC, unplug old card, plug new card in, start up and install drivers. A mobo, gah! For that I'd just drop the PC in at the usual shop. Let someone else fiddle about and be bored; it would be faster and the thing would work on the first go.

Actually, given the hours I'm doing at present the idea of having someone drop the PC and instructions in at the usual shop one morning for me and then it being ready and done by the time I'm home appeals. And windows is due for a reinstall anyway; it's gone a tad senile. Plus then I don't have to find the parts, the shop will. This place being good, they don't put a massive mark up on the trade price.

The 7800 GS was sounding great until I saw some reviews which compared it to the PCI express cards. It got spanked badly. Now I feel uneasy; if it's doing about 40FPS with everything on in current games it surely won't be long until the process of turning down begins. But if it is, say, half the cost of those flash cards then it's not so bad. This makes me squint dubiously at the 7600GT.

[Beirut]

The 7800 GS was sounding great until I saw some reviews which compared it to the PCI express cards. It got spanked badly. Now I feel uneasy; if it's doing about 40FPS with everything on in current games it surely won't be long until the process of turning down begins. But if it is, say, half the cost of those flash cards then it's not so bad. This makes me squint dubiously at the 7600GT.

The 7800 might be spanked by the better PCI-E cards, but truth is, there are always better cards. I didn't get my 7800GS AGP thinking it was the best, I got it thinking it was good and good enough. I didn't have to change my MB (which usually causes one to change their CPU as well), so that saved me some cash, but I still saw huge improvements in every way over my 9800 Pro. I felt like I had a new system for the price of a card. Mind you, I did throw in a second stick of 512 RAM at the same time, that helped as well.

75% of my game time is flying IL2-Pacific Fighters and the 7800 card brought the game up several levels. Being able to access the Shader 3 option (many games have this graphic option) with the new card made it a whole new game. Detail, speed, quality of graphics, everything went up. And, as I said, the card runs stable and quiet.

The 7800 AGP isn't anywhere near the best card (though it is the best AGP card), but from what I've seen on the screen right in front of me, it is a very good card. All depends what you're upgrading from and what you're expecting.

[Rodion Romanovich]

First thing to look for when getting a new card is compatibility with DirectX 9.0c AND OpenGL 2.0. If you want compatibility with all modern games those are necessary requirements. This is a necessity (both suggested cards so far: 7600 GS and 7800 GS have this compatibility). Soon also DirectX 10 will be out (in 1-2 months or slightly more is my guess) which will require a new card (no DX10 compatible cards are out yet) for compatibility reasons. So it might not be worth it to spend too much on a new video card before DirectX 10 has come out, however Microsoft are known for postponing stuff... Perhaps instead worth it to use a cheaper card in the meantime to handle the games of today and half a year ahead, until more games start using DirectX 10 features. DirectX 10 cards are not likely (however I'm not 100% sure of this) to use AGP, so they will require a new motherboard.

Once you've shortened the list of possible cards by checking compatibility requirements, it's time to look at the prestanda. The important factors are fill rate and vertices/second. The more of both, the better. Much fill rate and many pixel pipelines means better handling of complex shadowing, lighting, fog and depth of field and other effects, whereas vertices/second and vertex pipelines are more important for high poly models, very large landscapes and many units (as in 3d strategy games). I think M2TW compared to RTW will raise the requirements on both aspects as the new effects are of both kinds.

with PCI express, AGP, yadda yadda.

AGP is considered obsolete, but it's mainly map LOAD times that are affected by the choice between AGP and PCI. But also framerates can be affected a bit.

If you want AMAZING prestanda you could always go for a PCI express card plus a SLI or crossfire solution which means dual graphics cards (which requires a special motherboard, unfortunately no motherboards are compatible with both SLI and crossfire so once you choose motherboard you're locked to either ATI cards with crossfire or Nvidia cards with SLI). The most recent cards feature two graphics cards in a single card slot, meaning SLI and crossfire support might not need to be supported by the motherboard (not sure about this though). However an SLI or crossfire solution costs 300-800$ or similar... In return they give about 80% higher framerate.

I think these are the 3 best options:
1. buy an AGP card, 7600 GS or 7800 GS. Then buy a new computer in about 1 year or 1 and a half year. It's possible that you'll be bored by lack of compatibility and prestanda for most of the newer games near the end of the period before you buy a new computer
2. wait until DirectX10 cards are out and have dropped moderately in price, then buy a new motherboard and a DirectX10 compatible card, PCI express version, and if necessary change any of the old components (CPU etc) that won't fit in the new motherboard. This would mean full compatibility and high prestanda, however be boring for the nearest few months, and be more expensive than no. 1.
3. change motherboard now, and buy a cheap but highly compatible card such as 7600 GS or 7800 GS, PCI express version, then prepare to change it when DirectX 10 comes out. Because of the new motherboard, it'll be possible to upgrade to a better card when they come. It's however difficult to find a motherboard that both has good upgrade possibilities AND compatibility with your existing components (CPU etc.), so it might be impossible to do in practise unless you're prepared to change CPU and memory sticks etc. This could be the most expensive alternative, but could also be cheaper than no. 2.