How to: Create Exploding spears?

[Ra-az]

Hi,
I realise this is a bit of a longshot but..........

I'd like to make a cavalry unit with melee spears which create an explosion effect when they hit their foe with it.

It would be nice if it would be a 'functional' explosion with radius an area damage......... But I'll settle gladly for only the visual illusion!

Can anybody tell me if it's possible and/or some suggestions how to accomplish this?

As always oooozing gratitude 4 any feedback!!!

[Publius]

I have never done this and am going out completely on a limb here:

stat_sec 51, 1, javelin, 120, 30, siege_missile, blade, blunt, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area, launching

use those lines to replace the ones in the edu entry for the unit (if the javelin is primary weapons switch accordingly). Worth a shot I suppose

[Publius]

Ok (apparently I dont have th ability to edit posts) A few other things: you are going to want to set the damage (51) way down, unless of course you are trying to create something very, very powerful. Also the ammo (30) can also be adjusted depending on how much ammo you want them to have

[Ra-az]

That's mighty quick, but I think you misunderstood me. Or more to the point I was unclear in my description............

To complicate things:
The unit won't have a thrown spear, but just a normal spear to melee with (with an exploding tip)! So it's NOT a missile unit.

Any more idea's?

[Publius]

hrm, again dont expect this to necessarily work but . . . try this:

stat_sec 12, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area

[Ra-az]

Thx I'll try that.... Stay tuned for results.......

Tried it:
If I put it in as is I get a CTD
If I put it instead of primary weapon, game runs but no visible result.

Anybody else? Or Publius if you have more thoughts let me know.......

NB The visible illusion of an explosion will also do,alltough I'd rather have some guys flying through the air of course and lie on the ground scorched.

[Ciaran]

I have never done this and am going out completely on a limb here:

stat_sec 51, 1, javelin, 120, 30, siege_missile, blade, blunt, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr ap, bp, area, launching

use those lines to replace the ones in the edu entry for the unit (if the javelin is primary weapons switch accordingly). Worth a shot I suppose

Sorry, but that wouldn´t help, even if Ra-az was giving the unit a thrown weapon. Siege_missile only gives the morale penalty for siege weapons (you can add it to any missile unit and, for example, simulate the effect gunpowder units had in MTW), it has nothing to do with the weapon that´s used. That would be the Javelin entry, to create an explosive one it would be necessary to add a new projectile in descr_projectile, and possibly a new effect. On that account, effects (any effects, fire, smoke, dust, blood) are, as far as I know, only possible with missile weapons, that´s why there´s no working blood mod, or only a rather bad one from what I´ve heard.

The area and launching attributes might work, so the charge throws a couple of men through the air, but in 1.5 I think there´s also an attribute called power_charge or something, you´ll have to search through EDU.

[Ra-az]

Hi Ciaran,

On that account, effects (any effects, fire, smoke, dust, blood) are, as far as I know, only possible with missile weapons

Could I maybe accomplish it by giving them a missile weapon with a very short range, which I will make to look like a normal spear?

On same note, will missile units fire in melee if I give them only a missile weapon?

Like I said before I'll settle for the visual illusion also. Any idea's anybody? Don't be shy, plse post?

Thx

[Publius]

That might work, although there will be some pretty large drawbacks. Functionally, if you gave the javelin a range of, lets say, 1, then yes you might be able to get a sort of spear effect. However, the unit will still use a missile animation (you could try changing the skeleton I suppose in the dmb), your cursor will be a javelin not a sword, and also you wont be able to charge units. At best you will be able to click on the enemy, your men will charge until within range (in this case a very short distance) and then stop to throw. Unless you give them some very high defense stats, you will most likely lose a lot of these men before they have launched their first "volley."

[Ra-az]

Thx I'll play around with the "missile weapon morph to melee weapon" trick.

But I think it will have too many disadvantages.......
I have a growing fear that this is one idea that won't get realised........

I think that if I am to accomplish this, a brand new approach is needed.

Is there such a thing as scripting in battles?
That's maybe a possibility?

Plse more feedback.. I NEED more feedback.........grgrgroaarrrgrrooowl

[Duke John]

It's not possible to add effects to melee attacks.

[Ra-az]

Not happy, but thanks for the certainty

[Bwian]

Unfortunately, you are going to get a lot of problems of this sort with what you are trying to do. The RTW engine is REALLY not geared up to any kind of high-tech weaponry.

You will find you cannot speed up the rate of fire very much, cannot make AI units engage at close range with missiles ( only possible by toggling skirmish off for human controlled armies ) and you will only ever get volley fire.

Also watch out for your troops shooting up your own soldiers if you add area effects to misilles.....I found that the front ranks tended to get blown away when second rank missiles launched.

I tried to make a mod like this for fun.... but it just won't work with this game engine.

[Ra-az]

Hi Bwian,
I'm gonna use this reply to comment on your last few posts. And to post some thoughts of mine which I didn't post in the end.

Unfortunately, you are going to get a lot of problems of this sort with what you are trying to do. The RTW engine is REALLY not geared up to any kind of high-tech weaponry.
I tried to make a mod like this for fun.... but it just won't work with this game engine.

I'm sad to say, I agree.

I thought about making a similar mod using 40K units ( I have a few meshes still knocking around ) and have made workable Dreadnoughts and Wraithlords. .

A.h. you never told me this ;-)


(SOME UNPOSTED THOUGHTS mostly in respect to volleyfire issue)

I'm aware that the mod will never be 100 percent true to the tabletop game or to (modern) firearms combat. But for that matter.... The tabletop game was even less realistic (and slow!!!). Doing battle in more or less fixed battlelines (which also exist inWH) with automatic firearms is just nonsense in my view.
I think what makes a game fun to play is the collection of lots of litlle parts (gameplay,storyline, eyecandy,surprises) realism is not necessarily a big factor! I personally enjoy the campaign part of the RTW most in the game. I like a battle now and then but use auto resolve a lot!!

I also had lot's of discussion with friends that were WH40K die-hards, they were (also) very critical. About "40K" realism, I could care less. It's all JUST FANTASY you know!

A computer game is in effect an illusion. The trick is to create an illusion that 'feels' good and is fun to spend time on. Most important in that sence is that it is complete.
I'm willing to work within the borders of RTW and just create something fun.

You have to manually set the units skirmish setting every time the battle starts, which isn't really very good. The AI won't play the game that way either..... you can't force it to do the same. You can make it work for multi-player, but no campaign for single play would be possible

Well that's that then. If there's no campaign, I don't see the use of continuing
with this...
But what to to with all the acquired skills? I don't see the use of modding in the classic time frame of TW, not a big enough challenge and there's allready loads of those kind of mods around.

So.......... if you could use some help with finishing your MetalMayhem mod, I'm available! It's the next best thing. SF but still based on TW's strong points. Like I said before somewhere, I think in doing it this way you have had a stroke of genius!

If you don't need help , I'll start some new projects...not TW or WH40K related.

In any case, thanks for all your help in the last few weeks and good luck with your own endeavours!!

gr.
Ra-az