The White Native Americans Theory

[The Stranger]

I once heard about a theory that claims that a caucasian race emigrated from europe to america. they were the first inhabitants of america (so they say). they were later brutally murdered by the indians who emigrated from asia. they claim this was one of the first ethnic cleanings in the world. does anyone ever heard of this theory (or sumthing like it).

maybe someone could tell me the entire story?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sounds like a complete and utter load of bull to me. Indians migrated from Asia thousands and thousands of years ago. People from Europe could not do the same because of the Atlantic. Not to mention all the holes arising from how two very disorganized and spread out groups would practice genocide on each other. Who's claiming this?

Crazed Rabbit

[macsen rufus]

I did hear once that some of the Algonquin people were pretty much white, but probably related to the Norse, or more controversially, Celtic settlers of the 1st millenium. Sorry I don't have any references, so might even be a fantasy strand from Alan Dean Foster novels....

But pre-Clovis white tribes does sound a bit far-fetched, and a bit like it serves a right-wing supremacist agenda.

[The Stranger]

well i heard this theory first when i visited a white nationalist forum... but it never convinced me... and now the most eluded me. but i'd like to know it because it will help me with something else... i think it is false but you never know

[Dutch_guy]

well i heard this theory first when i visited a white nationalist forum...

Why were you doing that ?

[macsen rufus]

a white nationalist forum...

How did I guess

[Crazed Rabbit]

I did hear once that some of the Algonquin people were pretty much white, but probably related to the Norse, or more controversially, Celtic settlers of the 1st millenium. Sorry I don't have any references, so might even be a fantasy strand from Alan Dean Foster novels....

But pre-Clovis white tribes does sound a bit far-fetched, and a bit like it serves a right-wing supremacist agenda.

Right-wing supremacist agenda? Wha...? It would certainly serve a white supremacist agenda, but I dare say that is not right wing supremacy ( "Pre-Indian white settlement will help us make more capitalistic markets!" ).

well i heard this theory first when i visited a white nationalist forum... but it never convinced me... and now the most eluded me. but i'd like to know it because it will help me with something else... i think it is false but you never know

Huh, I guess I'm not surprised at the source.

Crazed Rabbit

[macsen rufus]

Are not white supremacists right wing? They don't look much like commies from here....

[Crazed Rabbit]

It would seem that they are on the very extreme of what could be seen as 'right-wing', but that would not make this a 'right-wing supremacist' tale. It has nothing to do with conservative or right-wing ideaology, but the crazed ideas of some people who happen to associate themselves with the extreme right wing.

Crazed Rabbit

[doc_bean]

Right-wing supremacist agenda? Wha...?

It's a well known convention.

the right gets:
-religious nuts
-white supremacists/facists
-gun nuts
-An Coulter

the left gets
-new age nuts
-environmentalists/vegetarians
-political correctness nuts
-Michael Moore

So don't complain about people calling them right wing, it ruins the whole 1 dimensional political spectrum theory

[lars573]

I once heard about a theory that claims that a caucasian race emigrated from europe to america. they were the first inhabitants of america (so they say). they were later brutally murdered by the indians who emigrated from asia. they claim this was one of the first ethnic cleanings in the world. does anyone ever heard of this theory (or sumthing like it).

maybe someone could tell me the entire story?

I've heard theories that the Olmecs were black (one mans theory based on some Olmec images having more african features, big lips, flat broad nose). And that Atlantis was south america. That Egypt traded with south america. Oh and that the Aztecs had met white europeans before Cortez, and had a conical germanic helemt with a naisal and everything. That it was presented to Cortez as a token to see if he reacted the way the legend about a white skined man in armour was supposed to.

The whole white men in early america comes from the fact that they have found skeletons in the US that are far older than Columbus that have caucasian features. And are genetically unrelated to the Native groups that live in the area. Now I forget where/when this happend mind you.

[Samurai Waki]

I Believe the theory of a white tribe being in America is related to a small archealogical find on the Pacific Coast of British Columbia. The skeletons uncovered were dissimilar(sp) from other Natives, and some had facial hair. However, further investigations may have proven that this was a tribe related to the Japanese or Koreans around 20,000 BC, as the First Caucasian movement into the region didn't happen to our knowledge until about 14,000 years later.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well aside from the obvious Leaf Erikson, who was after the Native Americans anyway, this particular theory dates to the last Ice Age and is based on European-style stone tools being found which pre-date the first Asian immigrants.

Its fairly well documented and understood in Archaeology but, as you can see, it has political ramifications. Which is why it doesn't get out much. These particular Europeans would have come from modern-day France but I don't know who they are related to today, as they were pre-Celtic.

I haven't heard any actual claims of genicide, not in an organised sense. I believe that they were partly forced out and partly bread out.

All that Aside there's plenty of good evidence for Viking activity on the North Eastern coast.

[lars573]

Well aside from the obvious Leaf Erikson, who was after the Native Americans anyway, this particular theory dates to the last Ice Age and is based on European-style stone tools being found which pre-date the first Asian immigrants.

Well you could theorize that the sub-arctic native groups are a mix of asians and caucasians. They have the straigh hair and dark eyes of Asians, as well as a similar skin tone. But they have cheek bones and noses like europeans.

Its fairly well documented and understood in Archaeology but, as you can see, it has political ramifications. Which is why it doesn't get out much. These particular Europeans would have come from modern-day France but I don't know who they are related to today, as they were pre-Celtic.

The Basques are about as close as you can get. They're residence in northern Spain predates indo-european migration into europe. Most theorize they've been there since neolithic times.

[Lemur]

I seem to remember something from the Book of Mormon about this. Two tribes, one lighter, one darker, the dark ones won in a nasty war ... can someone fill in the blanks, or correct me if I'm utterly wrong?

[thrashaholic]

The first people in North America were seemingly Europeans (French in fact), pre-dating the 'native' Americans by several thousand years:

http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news168.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...columbus.shtml

I saw the programme they did on this. It was very interesting. The tribe could well have crossed the Atlantic by hugging the ice-sheet and hunting as they went along. The archaelogical and genetic evidence is pretty irrefutable too: there being stone tools that predate the Asiatic migration. Also the diffuclty of crossing the Atlantic in those times would've been greatly reduced by the lower sea levels, so the actual sailing distance would have been significantly shorter.

Anyway, I'd imagine there has been a pretty constant stream of Europeans to America though (prior to Columbus), just not many came back. Evidence has been found of Monoliths (European style) and pre-Roman Celtic settlement on the East coast of America, as well as the well-known Viking settlement. It has also been suggested that the Carthagians, Bran (or welsh mythology fame), St. Brendan, and Prince Madog ab Owain Gwynedd all travelled to the Americas.

[IrishArmenian]

It was not before the American Indians, but white Vikings I beleive had colonies in North America.

[The Stranger]

I have heard yes that the aztecs (king atleast) was so fond of Cortez because they though he was some kind of prophet. There is a tale that says that their first godking was a white blond bearded man from the east. he came by big white sheets (sails i think).

Dutch Guy
Why were you doing that ?

I was looking for a discussion

Trashaholic
so you believe in the theory right? But if so, they only colonized the east of the US and probably most parts are now in the ocean.

But what if change it. that they came from asia and sailed to europe?

and would they count as caucasian (white). those peoplewho are said to have come from spain (later immigrated to france and ireland) as which race do they count. Not anglo-saxon... so why are they counted as white/caucasian...

[thrashaholic]

Trashaholic
so you believe in the theory right? But if so, they only colonized the east of the US and probably most parts are now in the ocean.

But what if change it. that they came from asia and sailed to europe?

and would they count as caucasian (white). those peoplewho are said to have come from spain (later immigrated to france and ireland) as which race do they count. Not anglo-saxon... so why are they counted as white/caucasian...

I must say I do believe it. I find it very hard to believe that no-one sailed west from Europe and made it until the Vikings, and an ice age would have been the perfect time to do it. Not many people would've been needed to start a settlement in a completely uninhabited land, especially with the survival skills stone-age man would've had. Their settlements could well be under the sea now, or just confused with Amerindian sites, or just have been so few in number that they haven't been discovered.

As to their 'whiteness', well they certainly weren't indo-European, but that wouldn't mean they weren't white. There are plenty of people in Europe who aren't indo-European, but are white, the Basques for example, and as I understand the Finns and Lapps and other Urgic people are too, plus I'd imagine there's plenty of pre-Indo-European descent in Britain too (apparently, most British and Irish people are descended from a few original stone age settlers apart from the odd influx of continental genetic stock).

[Divinus Arma]

I once heard about a theory that claims that a caucasian race emigrated from europe to america. they were the first inhabitants of america (so they say). they were later brutally murdered by the indians who emigrated from asia. they claim this was one of the first ethnic cleanings in the world. does anyone ever heard of this theory (or sumthing like it).

maybe someone could tell me the entire story?

Looks like somebody watched the South Park episode about Mormons.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Some nice Mormons who came to my house said that there was a tribe of Israel that came over 400BC or so, I think. After Christ's accension over in Israel, he came to preach among them or something, and they wrote some books and they died out somehow.

So not exactly a Indian precursor, though the evidence of pre-clovis people in the BBC link sounds interesting.

Crazed Rabbit

[Vladimir]

Why not? If a white, shipwrecked norseman can become the feathered serpent god than anything is possible.

[BDC]

Isn't there a somewhat mysterious tribe in some mountains in South America who are 'white', rather than whatever it is the rest of the locals are?