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  1. #1

    Default Re: MTW bugs/problems/strangeness

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I myself just usually go with the old "scorched-earth" policy when it comes to the Papacy. I invade Rome, execute the Pope, and then scrap all the infrastructure there--leaving the Pope to re-emerge with an army that he can't afford or support.
    That's extremely useful advice for when I play a Catholic game, but as the Byz I think I prefer keeping him down. How can I be Rhomaioi without possessing Rhoma?
    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    All that said, your high taxes should eventually drive down the province's loyalty to where they might rebel, but that can take time.
    The French solved that problem by seizing my unwanted province. I then assassinated all their royals. Life is good in the Empire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    If you managed to avoid a field battle with them and forced them to attack the Fortress (which itself is somewhat rare), then you've given yourself a pretty significant advantage over them.
    When the GH first appeared, my armies in Khazar didn't stand a chance against them. I retreated to the Fortress to buy some time to get reinforcements there. I had no idea they'd assault. If they'd laid siege, they could've had Khazar in 2 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    LOL! Hardly.
    Well, you must be the official N00b-Wrangler then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Medieval Total War is simply so *big* and covers so much ground, that one is always discovering new things when playing it. It's one of the joys of playing this game.
    Yeah, I just discovered my new favourite strategy game. I can play this for years. Previous favourite was SSI's Panzer General.

    It's question time! I really should ask all my questions at once, but they come to me in batches as I play.

    1. What does the Royal Court do for Byzantine provinces?

    2. I read a post on this very forum suggesting a Spy in every province of my own. I've done that, but I can't discern any benefits.

    3. I read another post that said the AI doesn't know how to set up trade routes. Tell that to the Danes. Danish longboats and traders have reached Egypt and Khazar, and Sweden is now the third richest province on the map, beaten out by Antioch and Constantinople. Is this supposed to happen?

    4. How many Assassins should I have? I've only got one, but he's V7. He's wiped out the French royal line three times, the Mongol line once and killed countless French, German and Mongol generals.

    5. What do the Banking Houses and Mastery of Time events do? Their descriptions say they increase trade and work, but I compared a pre-Banking save with a post-Clock save, and there's no change in income or construction times.

    6. Do the Byzantines ever get a deep-water ship?

    7. Who can train Khazar Royal Cavalry? I got 2 units through bribery waaay back at about 1104 (it's 1286 now) and I want to re-equip them with the wonderful products of Imperial forges.

    8. Is there any province more useful for military purposes than Switzerland? I just love Swiss Halberdiers.

    9. How do I use Arquebusiers properly? In a battle in Rome, they didn't kill much of anything at range, then while the VG's, Spearmen and Byz Cav were off chasing Papal troops they got charged by Chivalric MAA. The single 60-man Arq unit lost 3 men and reduced the CMAA to 15 men, at which point the CMAA routed off the battlefield. Impressive, but not their intended use.

    10. In the Viking campaign, you can convert the Vikings to Catholicism. Can you convert factions in the Medieval campaign?

    11. Which faction do you recommend for my second game? This GA Byzantine campaign is the first real campaign I've played. I made a couple of attempts at a Byz Conquest campaign, as well as an abortive attempt at an Irish Viking-era campaign. I was thinking maybe a GA French or Egyptian game.

    12. Do I add too many useless personal anectodes to my questions?
    Last edited by EightDeer; 09-11-2006 at 21:27.

  2. #2
    Member Member Geezer57's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW bugs/problems/strangeness

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    It's question time! I really should ask all my questions at once, but they come to me in batches as I play.

    1. What does the Royal Court do for Byzantine provinces?

    2. I read a post on this very forum suggesting a Spy in every province of my own. I've done that, but I can't discern any benefits.

    3. I read another post that said the AI doesn't know how to set up trade routes. Tell that to the Danes. Danish longboats and traders have reached Egypt and Khazar, and Sweden is now the third richest province on the map, beaten out by Antioch and Constantinople. Is this supposed to happen?

    4. How many Assassins should I have? I've only got one, but he's V7. He's wiped out the French royal line three times, the Mongol line once and killed countless French, German and Mongol generals.

    <STUFF DELETED>

    8. Is there any province more useful for military purposes than Switzerland? I just love Swiss Halberdiers.

    9. How do I use Arquebusiers properly? In a battle in Rome, they didn't kill much of anything at range, then while the VG's, Spearmen and Byz Cav were off chasing Papal troops they got charged by Chivalric MAA. The single 60-man Arq unit lost 3 men and reduced the CMAA to 15 men, at which point the CMAA routed off the battlefield. Impressive, but not their intended use.

    10. In the Viking campaign, you can convert the Vikings to Catholicism. Can you convert factions in the Medieval campaign?

    11. Which faction do you recommend for my second game? This GA Byzantine campaign is the first real campaign I've played. I made a couple of attempts at a Byz Conquest campaign, as well as an abortive attempt at an Irish Viking-era campaign. I was thinking maybe a GA French or Egyptian game.

    12. Do I add too many useless personal anectodes to my questions?
    1) That's one I don't know - someone will pop by and answer it soon.

    2) If your province loyalty is already high, you won't notice any increase with a spy. But when it's marginal, or when enemy spies try to lower your province loyalty, your own spy will prove his worth. He gets a chance at eliminating enemy "invisible" agents before they can act, if you don't have a Border Fort. Once my economy is up and rolling, I like to keep one in every province I own, with batches available in port provinces for foreign or special missions.

    3) The AI doesn't really know how to set up a proper trade network, but some factions tend to get lucky more than others. It's more accidental than deliberate.

    4) One really good Assassin is nearly essential, but I like to have spares - sooner or later the odds will catch up with your "uber" Assassin, and he'll get caught. I feel you can't go wrong with the "one per province" guideline - that's what I try to set up in my campaigns.

    5) thru 7) No comment.

    8) I too love Swiss Halberdiers, especially when gold-armored (except in the desert). There's just a certain "panache" to mountain fighters, isn't there?

    9) Arquebusiers generate the most damage (and are far more accurate) when firiing at point-blank range - the farther away the target, the more projectiles miss (to no effect). It's generally best to use them like javelin units, where you pin the target with another (sometimes sacrificial) unit, and then maneuver the Arq to the flank/rear before opening fire. That way your target is fixed and immobile - if, for example, that charging CMAA had better morale and had actually come to grips with your Arq, the results might have been disastrous. Admittedly, Handgunners are worse at range than Arquebusiers, but they (at least) have some melee capability. Also keep in mind that gunpowder weapons have an exaggerated morale impact, if any target men die. So firing your Arq's at range against an already morale-shocked group of reinforcements can be a valid tactic - a few hits could send them all running in a chain-rout.

    10) In the Medieval campaigns you can convert the dominant religion in enemy provinces to your religion, which makes them easier for you to control when captured and causes increased likelyhood of religious uprisings against the AI,but you can't convert the factions themselves.

    11) There's something to like in playing any/all of the MTW-VI factions. Take your pick, just don't stick too long with any one faction or time period. Play them all!

    12) There can't be too many useless personal anectodes - that's part of the great flavor of this forum!
    Last edited by Geezer57; 09-12-2006 at 00:06.
    My father's sole piece of political advice: "Son, politicians are like underwear - to keep them clean, you've got to change them often."

  3. #3

    Default Re: MTW bugs/problems/strangeness

    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer57
    3) The AI doesn't really know how to set up a proper trade network, but some factions tend to get lucky more than others. It's more accidental than deliberate.
    Pity. The import income from the Danes is a nice little bonus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer57
    4) One really good Assassin is nearly essential, but I like to have spares - sooner or later the odds will catch up with your "uber" Assassin, and he'll get caught. I feel you can't go wrong with the "one per province" guideline - that's what I try to set up in my campaigns.
    I guess I'll get some more; it's going to be a definite PITA to train additional Assassins up to being really useful, even with fresh V5's from Syria.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer57
    8) I too love Swiss Halberdiers, especially when gold-armored (except in the desert). There's just a certain "panache" to mountain fighters, isn't there?
    Panache is right. They're absolutely impossible to rout, and it's almost scary to watch them battle Knights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer57
    9)If that charging CMAA had better morale and had actually come to grips with your Arq, the results might have been disastrous.
    They did come to grips, and there was a right proper punch-up but there were several factors in the Arq's favour:
    1. The CMAA were charging uphill.
    2. The Pope had just died of Varangian causes.
    3. The Arq's were deployed in a long, thin 2-rank formation. When the CMAA charged directly into the center of the Arq's, they lapped round the CMAA in a rough U-shape to get at the front and both flanks simultaneously.
    4. The Arq's were V5 and the CMAA were V1.
    5. The Arq's were trained in a province that had a Master Armourer/Gunsmith/Metalsmith, all religious buildings including a Cathedral as well as the College of Surgeons and Military Academy. They were not the standard Arq unit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer57
    12) There can't be too many useless personal anectodes - that's part of the great flavor of this forum!
    Well then, I'll continue to be my long-winded self.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I'm a little surprised at that as well. Usually the AI will choose to wait out a siege rather than storming the castle, particularly if a large garrison (like yours in Khazar) will succumb quickly to starvation. The exception is if your defending garrison is so small that the AI would have to wait forever before the castle fell. I believe the Golden Horde may be programmed to be more aggressive, however; so that may be why they chose to assult the castle instead.
    Ah well, the Emperor isn't overly concerned. However, Silk Road traders report that large numbers of highly disrespectful things are being said about him in Mongolia. Some of them are downright factually inaccurate! Everyone knows donkeys aren't that flexible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Shogun Total War (the original Total War game, and Medieval's predecessor)
    I actually got a copy of that (without MI) before I got MTW. I discovered that STW doesn't run under XP SP2, so I threw it in with the rest of my games and forgot about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I want to say War Galleys can travel in deep water.
    Sadly, they don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Since the Emperor's navy's activity centered around the Black Sea and eastern Med, they didn't really have much need of a true deep-water vessel.
    The Black Sea is more-or-less the Emperor's private lake here, and Byzantine warships can be found anywhere from the Egyptian to the Irish coasts. I will admit that the lack of a deep-water vessel is a minor irritation rather than a true handicap, but it still bugs me.

    I often wonder what Byzantine society is like in this strange alternate history I've created with CA's tools. MTW is decent at simulating economic and military aspects of a vast empire, but it says nothing about the culture of said empire. Byzantine art, literature and social customs would surely be radically different to what they were in our history. I wonder what daily life is like in Anatolia, Greece or Wallachia, which have known 2 centuries of prolonged peace. Then I remember that this is not alternatehistory.com, and I shut up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Oh, and congratulations on your promotion to full membership!
    What? When did this happen? Should I thank the Academy?
    Last edited by EightDeer; 09-12-2006 at 06:00.

  4. #4
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW bugs/problems/strangeness

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    Ah well, the Emperor isn't overly concerned. However, Silk Road traders report that large numbers of highly disrespectful things are being said about him in Mongolia. Some of them are downright factually inaccurate! Everyone knows donkeys aren't that flexible.
    They just don't like losing, do they?

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    I actually got a copy of that (without MI) before I got MTW. I discovered that STW doesn't run under XP SP2, so I threw it in with the rest of my games and forgot about it.
    Have you tried going into properties and changing the settings so that the game "pretends" it's running on Win '98? I don't know if that will work, but it might be worth a try if you haven't already done so. (I don't have SP2, so I haven't had major problems getting to Shogun to run--yet!)

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    Sadly, they don't.

    The Black Sea is more-or-less the Emperor's private lake here, and Byzantine warships can be found anywhere from the Egyptian to the Irish coasts. I will admit that the lack of a deep-water vessel is a minor irritation rather than a true handicap, but it still bugs me.
    It's understably annoying, but fortunately it is pretty minor as you've already said. Since there's only two sea regions considered to be deep-water (Central Med & North Atlantic), shallow-water vessels can still go almost anywhere deep-water ships can. It's only a pain if your fleet of shallow-water ships is attacked by a deep-water vessel, and the enemy flees to 1 of those 2 sea regions (where you can't get at them). In my experience, this is (happily) quite rare.

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    Then I remember that this is not alternatehistory.com, and I shut up.
    LOL. Probably a wise choice, at least here in the Entrance Hall. (Threads like that tend to go severely off-topic here, and/or devolve into flame wars.) You can probably find similar conversations in the Monastary, however--and more specifically in the Chapter House. It's a great place to discuss that kind of stuff!

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    What? When did this happen? Should I thank the Academy?
    Sure, go nuts. Also, now you can post in the Main Hall at your leisure. That way, if you have any questions or problems, you might be able to obtain answers from someone who's actually qualified .
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  5. #5
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW bugs/problems/strangeness

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    That's extremely useful advice for when I play a Catholic game, but as the Byz I think I prefer keeping him down. How can I be Rhomaioi without possessing Rhoma?
    [chuckle] True enough. I just find that generally speaking, holding Rome isn't worth the hassle of dealing with persistent Papal reemergences. I'm speaking for myself, however; your mileage obviously may vary.

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    The French solved that problem by seizing my unwanted province. I then assassinated all their royals. Life is good in the Empire.
    When the GH first appeared, my armies in Khazar didn't stand a chance against them. I retreated to the Fortress to buy some time to get reinforcements there. I had no idea they'd assault. If they'd laid siege, they could've had Khazar in 2 years.
    I'm a little surprised at that as well. Usually the AI will choose to wait out a siege rather than storming the castle, particularly if a large garrison (like yours in Khazar) will succumb quickly to starvation. The exception is if your defending garrison is so small that the AI would have to wait forever before the castle fell. I believe the Golden Horde may be programmed to be more aggressive, however; so that may be why they chose to assult the castle instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    Well, you must be the official N00b-Wrangler then.
    Well I certainly won't dissuade you from thinking that. The simple fact is, I'm just one of a number of members who do our best to check out the Entrance Hall periodically. We want to make sure you guys get the same level of welcome and assistance we did when we ourselves were newbies. It's all about paying it forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    Yeah, I just discovered my new favourite strategy game. I can play this for years. Previous favourite was SSI's Panzer General.
    My previous favorites were Birth of the Federation and Shogun Total War (the original Total War game, and Medieval's predecessor). I got MTW as a late Christmas gift (2002), and it's stayed on my computer ever since!

    And now to your questions--although Geezer57 already answered most of them for you. (He knows his stuff!) There's not a whole lot I can add to what he's already said, but I'll see if I can fill in any additional blanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    1. What does the Royal Court do for Byzantine provinces?
    As far as I can tell, nothing. Why the Byz can even build Royal Courts in the first place remains a mystery to me. It's possible that RC's unlock another building/unit in the Late period that I don't know about (which is possible, since I rarely play Late period). As of yet, however, I've never heard of the Royal Court providing any particular benefit for the Byz.

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    5. What do the Banking Houses and Mastery of Time events do? Their descriptions say they increase trade and work, but I compared a pre-Banking save with a post-Clock save, and there's no change in income or construction times.
    I haven't noticed said events affect contruction times either, so I'm not sure why it says they do. As for income, it should increase your trade income, although I admittedly don't know by how much. If you check the income for each individual province (with trade goods), you *should* be able to tell the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    6. Do the Byzantines ever get a deep-water ship?
    I'm not sure they do, to be honest. Since the Emperor's navy's activity centered around the Black Sea and eastern Med, they didn't really have much need of a true deep-water vessel. I want to say War Galleys can travel in deep water, but it's been so long since I last played the Byz (at least several months) that I could very easily be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    7. Who can train Khazar Royal Cavalry? I got 2 units through bribery waaay back at about 1104 (it's 1286 now) and I want to re-equip them with the wonderful products of Imperial forges.
    If you find out, let me know. Again, this another question where I'm forced to confess my ignorance. I think the Novgorods/Russians *might* be able to train them, but I've barely ever played that faction. (A lot of the eastern factions simply don't interest me that much, the Byz and Eggies being the exceptions.)

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    11. Which faction do you recommend for my second game? This GA Byzantine campaign is the first real campaign I've played. I made a couple of attempts at a Byz Conquest campaign, as well as an abortive attempt at an Irish Viking-era campaign. I was thinking maybe a GA French or Egyptian game.
    Well if you feel confident in your abilities and/or are masochistic, then by all means try out a French GA campaign. (It's hard!)

    Personally, my favorite faction is the Spanish, with the Egyptians being a very close second. Check out this thread, where we're currently discussing that very subject. You'll get some good ideas there.

    Quote Originally Posted by EightDeer
    12. Do I add too many useless personal anectodes to my questions?
    No more than the rest of us, my friend. It's practically a tradition here at the Org!

    Oh, and congratulations on your promotion to full membership!
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

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