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Thread: Jesus was black
Originally Posted by :
Hannibal was African so it is possible he was black. What about the Numidians? there even deeper in africa yet are depicted as white
He was Phoenican, and thereby, Semitic.Hannibal was African so it is possible he was black. What about the Numidians? there even deeper in africa yet are depicted as white
I couldn't care less. I'm sure he was darker skinned for sure though, from the region he was partial to.
He probably looked like a common Jew. Not European Jews, but Israel Jews. More of an Olive skin tone, definitely not white.
Actually he could have been quite fair, Not all Semetic people are that dark. The idea that he could have been black is bull, because that would require his Phonecian-ruler ancestors to intermarry with their Numidian Subjects. Not going to happen.
Black...and irrelevant. Okay.
Actually its very relevant. For exactly the same reasons as Black Athena is relevant.
It's not irrelevant to some. Christianity has been used for thousands of years as a mechanism of social control, one of which, was an attitude towards 'untermenche' if you like. (non-believers)The Jews being a very good example, and latterly the Negroes. (Despite what the bible said)
That JC may have been a man of colour (not one drop, for my yank friends) is potentially explosive.
That JC may have been a man of colour (not one drop, for my yank friends) is potentially explosive.
Well he wasn't an Irish-American or an Italian.
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit:
But guess what? People traveled -*gasp!*- to different places! And Egypt had been ruled by Greeks and the common folk were probably mediterranean in Appearence, like, I would think, Jesus.
Crazed Rabbit
and there was a long established Jewish community in Egypt at the time But guess what? People traveled -*gasp!*- to different places! And Egypt had been ruled by Greeks and the common folk were probably mediterranean in Appearence, like, I would think, Jesus.
Crazed Rabbit
"Alexandria was not only a centre of Hellenism but was also the largest city with a Jewish population in the world. The Septuagint, a text of the Hebrew Bible, was produced there. The early Ptolemies kept it in order and fostered the development of its museum into the leading Greek university (Library of Alexandria) but were careful to maintain the distinction of its population into three nations: "Greek", Jewish and Egyptian. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria%2C_Egypt
and for that matter, who says he didn't stand out?
Egypt also became an area where there were many Christians, despite later Moslem rule.
Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall:
Actually its very relevant. For exactly the same reasons as Black Athena is relevant.
What reasons, exactly? Actually its very relevant. For exactly the same reasons as Black Athena is relevant.
What colour are leprachauns, fairys, dragons and sounds again?
Originally Posted by Papewaio:
What colour are leprachauns, fairys, dragons and sounds again?
My point.What colour are leprachauns, fairys, dragons and sounds again?
Originally Posted by Papewaio:
What colour are leprachauns, fairys, dragons and sounds again?
What color are trolls?What colour are leprachauns, fairys, dragons and sounds again?
Jesus black? If you mean that in terms of modern usage, then no he almost definitely was not. But, nor was he the likely the blonde haired, blue eyed man that has often been depicted either.
Note that it is a mix of fantasy and real elements, none of which attributes rely on colour. I assume that what Jesus had to say is irrelvent to his skin colour regardless if he did or did not exist.
Really, race is not that important to me. But Pape, Jesus actually did exist, ask anyone no matter what their beleefs are. I think you meen if he actually was the son of God, correct?
Not white or black. But white people like to picture him as white, black people as black, Asians probably as Asian, etc. For it is at least as true that Man created God in his own image as vice versa.
Ajax
Ajax
Originally Posted by IrishArmenian:
Really, race is not that important to me. But Pape, Jesus actually did exist, ask anyone no matter what their beleefs are. I think you meen if he actually was the son of God, correct?
Well I'm a person and I doubt that the historical version that is often referenced existed. His value was in the ideas which are probably distilled from many sources.Really, race is not that important to me. But Pape, Jesus actually did exist, ask anyone no matter what their beleefs are. I think you meen if he actually was the son of God, correct?
A person named Jesus probably existed.
Was he a hippie preacher, possibly.
Was he the son of God, doubt it.
Was he a useful fulcrum for future generations powerplays, undoubtably.
I have argued in other threads that race is an allusion. It is arbitrary and vague. I think the discussion here supports what I have said. Watching everyone try to assign racial labels to people is kinda funny.
"African" should not be not synonomous with "black". There are people with all sorts of skin tones and other physical features on the continent. The Carthaginians were Phoenicians, who may have been from Asia Minor, the Mediterranean islands, or the Black Sea area. They could have mixed with locals in North Africa. They are not normally considered Semites.
Jesus was probably a Semite. He is rarely depicted that way in European art. He had to have been quite dark through exposure to the sun and probable melanin content of his skin. His hair could have been dark brown to black, and straight, wavy, or curly. Eye color could possibly--though not probably--have been green, gray, or hazel. Blue is highly unlikely.
Mohammed was probably also a Semite. He and Jesus very likely had a lot of features in common.
"African" should not be not synonomous with "black". There are people with all sorts of skin tones and other physical features on the continent. The Carthaginians were Phoenicians, who may have been from Asia Minor, the Mediterranean islands, or the Black Sea area. They could have mixed with locals in North Africa. They are not normally considered Semites.
Jesus was probably a Semite. He is rarely depicted that way in European art. He had to have been quite dark through exposure to the sun and probable melanin content of his skin. His hair could have been dark brown to black, and straight, wavy, or curly. Eye color could possibly--though not probably--have been green, gray, or hazel. Blue is highly unlikely.
Mohammed was probably also a Semite. He and Jesus very likely had a lot of features in common.
Well considering almost all racial groups from Morocco to India are Semitic and there haven't been too many major migrations into the area (save the Turks and a few Mongols) since the fall of the Roman Empire. I think that it is more likely than not he was Fair-Olive-Dark Skinned Semite. The Darker the Skin usually means more time spent under the sun (melanoma) , hence that Berbers in the Sahara and Arabian Deserts appear darker than their Cosmopolitan counterparts along the North African Coast and the Fertile Crescent, yet they are virtual cousins and share very few genetic disimilarities.
If Joseph and Mary came from Nazareth (or possibly Bethlehem) statistically speaking it would be more likely that Jesus was born fairer skinned because these areas were fertile (not in the middle of the Desert) It would be more likely that Jesus wouldn't have had to spend endless hours in the sun and could quite easily find a place to shade himself or hide during the hotter hours of the day. I believe, Jesus wasn't of extreme poverty, as his parents could move him far distances with few impedements, and would've had the money to afford water, food, shelter, and pack animals to move from place to place. As Jesus did find himself in Nineveh, Alexandria, and perhaps as far south as Ethiopia.
The likelihood of Jesus being fair skinned is almost right out, as the only fair skinned people in the region would've been Merchants, Slaves, and Auxilia from mainland Europe, not including Italy, who are by majority olive skinned.
The Chances of Jesus being black is a bit likelier, however, statistically far from likely, as the only very dark skinned people in the region were more than likely Berbers crossing over from the Sahara into the Arab Desert and do not generally enjoy the cosmopolitan lifestyle like Jesus had. The only other possible equation into Jesus being black is that Joseph was a freed slave or Merchant, which if you can believe anything in the bible, was not true as Joseph was a Shepherd and had a family before meeting Mary. Also, the chances of a wealthy Roman freeing slaves in the region is also unlikely, as Jerusalem wasn't as wealthy as Alexandria, Baghdad, or Tyr.
From an anthropologist's view point, it would seem more likely than not Jesus was...ta da'...ummm Semitic of several possible, if not totally irrelevent shades varying from very dark, to almost fair depending on the lifestyle he lived.
It's not totally out of the question, because I'm of German Irish descent and if you look at pictures of me from when I lived in Colorado I'm as white as a sheet, but since I've lived in South California, I've often times been mistaken as being Mexican, since... I do...uh...tan.
If Joseph and Mary came from Nazareth (or possibly Bethlehem) statistically speaking it would be more likely that Jesus was born fairer skinned because these areas were fertile (not in the middle of the Desert) It would be more likely that Jesus wouldn't have had to spend endless hours in the sun and could quite easily find a place to shade himself or hide during the hotter hours of the day. I believe, Jesus wasn't of extreme poverty, as his parents could move him far distances with few impedements, and would've had the money to afford water, food, shelter, and pack animals to move from place to place. As Jesus did find himself in Nineveh, Alexandria, and perhaps as far south as Ethiopia.
The likelihood of Jesus being fair skinned is almost right out, as the only fair skinned people in the region would've been Merchants, Slaves, and Auxilia from mainland Europe, not including Italy, who are by majority olive skinned.
The Chances of Jesus being black is a bit likelier, however, statistically far from likely, as the only very dark skinned people in the region were more than likely Berbers crossing over from the Sahara into the Arab Desert and do not generally enjoy the cosmopolitan lifestyle like Jesus had. The only other possible equation into Jesus being black is that Joseph was a freed slave or Merchant, which if you can believe anything in the bible, was not true as Joseph was a Shepherd and had a family before meeting Mary. Also, the chances of a wealthy Roman freeing slaves in the region is also unlikely, as Jerusalem wasn't as wealthy as Alexandria, Baghdad, or Tyr.
From an anthropologist's view point, it would seem more likely than not Jesus was...ta da'...ummm Semitic of several possible, if not totally irrelevent shades varying from very dark, to almost fair depending on the lifestyle he lived.
It's not totally out of the question, because I'm of German Irish descent and if you look at pictures of me from when I lived in Colorado I'm as white as a sheet, but since I've lived in South California, I've often times been mistaken as being Mexican, since... I do...uh...tan.
Jesus was human.
Originally Posted by :
Jesus was obviously black. He called everybody his brother and he couldn't get a fair trial
Best org joke of 2006!Jesus was obviously black. He called everybody his brother and he couldn't get a fair trial
The important question is not whether he was black or not, but why it matters to some people when the clear Christian message is that things like race don't matter.
Some interesting points have come out on this thread:
Originally Posted by Papewaio:
Note that it is a mix of fantasy and real elements, none of which attributes rely on colour. I assume that what Jesus had to say is irrelvent to his skin colour regardless if he did or did not exist.
Logically, what he said can't be regardless of whether he existed or not.Note that it is a mix of fantasy and real elements, none of which attributes rely on colour. I assume that what Jesus had to say is irrelvent to his skin colour regardless if he did or did not exist.
[QUOTE=IA] As the article says believers show him in their own image, which seems about right as far as human nature is concerned. [/QUOTE
Theologically this is about right. I think it is good if people depict Jesus as simillar to themselves, because it emphasises that he came as their saviour (so long as they remember that he is came as everyone else's saviour too - which is a problem).
Originally Posted by :
If it could be proven that JC was a man of colour, where would this leave the racists and bigots?
Sadly, refusing to accepth the evidence. After all, it is explicit in the Gospel accounts that Jesus was Jewish and practiced his faith as a Jew, but Christianity has a terrible reccord of anti-semitism.If it could be proven that JC was a man of colour, where would this leave the racists and bigots?
Originally Posted by Xiahou:
. But, nor was he the likely the blonde haired, blue eyed man that has often been depicted either.
I have seen the blue eyes depiction (Robert Powell), but never the blond. Do you have a reference?. But, nor was he the likely the blonde haired, blue eyed man that has often been depicted either.
Ahh yes Robert Powell.
Mrs Apache MK I was very enthusiastic about him. Although I eventually forgave him (how Christian of me ) when .....
[i] We divorced (Mrs Apache MK I that is) and
[ii] He did the detectives with Jasper Carrot.
Mrs Apache MK I was very enthusiastic about him. Although I eventually forgave him (how Christian of me
) when .....[i] We divorced (Mrs Apache MK I that is) and
[ii] He did the detectives with Jasper Carrot.
Originally Posted by Xiahou:
What color are trolls?
Jesus black? If you mean that in terms of modern usage, then no he almost definitely was not. But, nor was he the likely the blonde haired, blue eyed man that has often been depicted either.
ive never seen a blond blue haired jezus before... only a brown eyed brown haired light skinned oneWhat color are trolls?
Jesus black? If you mean that in terms of modern usage, then no he almost definitely was not. But, nor was he the likely the blonde haired, blue eyed man that has often been depicted either.
Thank You Andres, i was about to say that ;)
Long hair, long beard, always talking about peace and love.
Don't know about his color, but he certainly was a hippie.
Don't know about his color, but he certainly was a hippie.
Jesus was a Roman.
I wonder what would have happened if Jesus lived in the time of the KKK clan(in the 60's in America). Jesus Christ, a black person.
They would be confronted: We hate black people, but we hate Jesus too. And they were religious people.
I wonder what would have happened if Jesus lived in the time of the KKK clan(in the 60's in America). Jesus Christ, a black person.
They would be confronted: We hate black people, but we hate Jesus too. And they were religious people.
Well, unless all those people constantly hid their faces from the sun, I guess they were somewhat darker than white...
Jesus was Black, Ronald Regan was the Devil, and the government is lying about 9/11. All the proof is here.
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro:
What reasons, exactly?
For exactly this reason. I'm an Anglo-Sweed, if I claim Jesus was white with blue eyes and blond hair I am claiming ownership of him and perhaps using him to put foward a claim of racial supperiorety.What reasons, exactly?
By the same token claiming the Athenians and the Carthaginians were Black, as well as Jesus, is an attempt to strip the white people of their herratige, leaving us with just the unwashed barbarians up North and the Romans.
The fact that the latter attack is badly misaimed is beside the point. The reality is that Jesus was an ethnic Jew with what must have been at least and believable claim to the throne. David certainly wasn't Black so Jesus wasn't either.
Jesus was Batman.
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