visiting historic battlefields

[highlanddave]

thought i would make my first posted thread on one of my vacation past times, visiting historic battlefields. i have been to alot and will list a couple favorites. please tell me of your own visits and maybe what you thought about while there.

1- gettysburg, pennsylvania - a well preserved battlefield and the best as far as monuments, markers and tourist information center.

2- waterloo, belgium - fairly well preserved although i despise the way the sunken road dirt on the british left flank was destroyed to build the lion mound. i did not have much time and really would like to visit again.

3- normandy, france - the american cemetary on the cliff top is a moving experience.

4- shiloh, tennessee - a huge battlefield and a complicated battle

5- atlanta, geogia - the battle sites are hard to find, one needs to do research to find markers. the cemetary for the confederate dead is moving as it is a mass grave with over 5000 unknowns and is slightly sunken due to bodies deteriorating over the years. several confederate generals are buried there as well.

please do not make this a political thread and be respectful.

[Afonso I of Portugal]

Aljubarrota, Portugal - Well preserved medieval battlefield, museum and archeological excavations with a complex series of interlocking trenches, ditches, pitches, caltrops and graves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aljubarrota

[rotorgun]

That was a very interesting and informative article about the Battle of Aljubarrota King_Of_Portugal_2. I would say that the Portugese kept thier heads rather well during he fight. It is a pity about the French knights being killed. It is understandable, but regrettable. It sheds much light on the actions of King Henry V at Agincourt in 1415. I'll have to remember the tactics of this battle for future reference.

My favorite battlefield so far is Shilo, Tennessee. I like the way that one can follow the route of the individual regiments because of all the signs at the various stages of the battle. One really gets an idea of the ebb and flow of that desperate encounter. Standing in the Hornets Nest is a moving experience and one can imagine the stand of General Prentiss's division against thirteen Confederate charges.....dreadful ground to attack through, all tangled with undergrowth and woods that broke up the cohesion of the attackers.

Fort Donelson, also in Tennesse, is also an interesting place to visit. I live not 40 minutes from there and I try to make an annual excursion there each year. My favorite spots are the river batteries and the Confederate rear guard trenches. The river guns overlook the bend in the Cumberland that the Union gunboats had to negotiate to attack the battery. One can easily see how the Confederate gunners were able to completely drive them off. The trenches, really nothing more than a series of rifle pits, which lie along a steep hill on the western flank of the position are rather shallow and only about big enough to hold maybe twenty men each. The Ravine that the Union infantry had to tackle, while steep, is also cut with numerous ruts that gave the attackers just enough cover to enable them to work close to the Confederate lines. Once massed, it didn't take long for the defenders to be overwhelmed, a great factor in causing General Pillow to call of the almost successful breakout in the eastern periphery. He had to almost denude his western defenses to mass enough of his own troops for the breakout you see. It was a very near run thing, but in the end a Union victory, the first of General Ullyses S. (Unconditional Surrender) Grant.

I would love to visit European battlefields someday. Perhaps when I am retired and have more time I can. Waterloo and Austerlitz are two that I can only imagine at present.

Regards,

[IrishArmenian]

An even more moving experience and very tuff to do is to visit a place where you personally fought. I visited a woman's house that I was hiding in and I got to the spot where I took my first life. I wanted to cry. I got in the exact position I was in years erlier at the same old window and it called on some very strong memories. I relived that event right then and there. I forgot, It was much smaller than I thought. It was tough to fit my 1.97 Metre frame into an alcove that I was comfortable when I was about 1.49. I hit my head a couple of times.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

My favorite battlefield so far is Shilo, Tennessee. I like the way that one can follow the route of the individual regiments because of all the signs at the various stages of the battle. One really gets an idea of the ebb and flow of that desperate encounter. Standing in the Hornets Nest is a moving experience and one can imagine the stand of General Prentiss's division against thirteen Confederate charges.....dreadful ground to attack through, all tangled with undergrowth and woods that broke up the cohesion of the attackers.

Fort Donelson, also in Tennesse, is also an interesting place to visit. I live not 40 minutes from there and I try to make an annual excursion there each year. My favorite spots are the river batteries and the Confederate rear guard trenches. The river guns overlook the bend in the Cumberland that the Union gunboats had to negotiate to attack the battery. One can easily see how the Confederate gunners were able to completely drive them off. The trenches, really nothing more than a series of rifle pits, which lie along a steep hill on the western flank of the position are rather shallow and only about big enough to hold maybe twenty men each. The Ravine that the Union infantry had to tackle, while steep, is also cut with numerous ruts that gave the attackers just enough cover to enable them to work close to the Confederate lines. Once massed, it didn't take long for the defenders to be overwhelmed, a great factor in causing General Pillow to call of the almost successful breakout in the eastern periphery. He had to almost denude his western defenses to mass enough of his own troops for the breakout you see. It was a very near run thing, but in the end a Union victory, the first of General Ullyses S. (Unconditional Surrender) Grant.

Do the East Coast Civil War too, my friend. Looking down the hill from where Josh Chamberlain held, or the field that Armistead's boys crossed and still almost broke the line; look up Marye's heights and think to yourself about heading up there in formation and in step towards that sunken road, or sit in Jeff Davis' cell at Monroe...

Though I'd love to do the Civil War in Tennessee too. I only visited once, and was with a father in lawy who just had to see Graceland and a wife and mother in law who couldn't wait to get to Pigeon Forge.... . At least I got to see the Memphis Belle.

[Alexios]

Monte Casino - WWII. I have an uncle that died there while fighting the German Army. He's buried in a war cemetery in eastern Italy. Went to the cemetery with my dad (who also fought in WWII in Italy and Belgium) during the 50th anniversary in 1995. My dad had never seen my uncle's grave before. Talk about a moving moment. Gives my generation an appreciation for what our forefathers did, and to thank the Almighty that we didn’t have to go through it ourselves.

War games may be a whole lotta fun, but the real deal is sheer hell, I'm sure.

[Monarch]

Culloden - Scotland, last battle on British soil :) Quite well preserved, theres a mini cinema that shows a documentary, then the standard museum info boards, you can then walk around the battlefield, a cottage that acted as a mini field hospital is well setup to show what it was like in there o the day of the battle.

[rotorgun]

Do the East Coast Civil War too, my friend. Looking down the hill from where Josh Chamberlain held, or the field that Armistead's boys crossed and still almost broke the line; look up Marye's heights and think to yourself about heading up there in formation and in step towards that sunken road, or sit in Jeff Davis' cell at Monroe...

Though I'd love to do the Civil War in Tennessee too. I only visited once, and was with a father in lawy who just had to see Graceland and a wife and mother in law who couldn't wait to get to Pigeon Forge.... . At least I got to see the Memphis Belle.

I forgot to mention Gettysburg! I have made one, albiet brief visit there back in 1985. I was able todo a whirlwind tour of the Union lines. I was with my wife, who was pregnant at the time, and our oldest son who was a mere tyke then. I was able to visit the position of the 20th Maine on Littile Round Top and also the point of attack of Picketts's charge. I wasn't able to stay long enough to really get a good feel for the fight. I am sworn to make another attempt in future. If I ever get up to Virginia again, I'll try to visit Fredricksburg.

Please feel free to get in touch with me if you come to Tennessee again. I'll be glad to show you around and visit any battlefield you may care to visit. I can even show you a few minor battlefields off the beaten path.

Regards,

[IrishArmenian]

I did get to Vartan Fields. Very eery to be on a battlefield. It was well preserved and it was a large part of history.

[highlanddave]

IrishArmenian, i did a google of vartan fields and came up with Battle of Vartanantz. is that the same as you meant? i think it would be, as the description is amenia vs the sassanids in 451.

this has been a good thread so far as i have learned 2 battles i never heard of before. King_Of_Portugal_2's Aljubarrota battle was very interesting as well.

[Antagonist]

I pretty frequently pass over the approximate location of Clontarf, although there isn't much in the way of monuments/information as the entire area has long since been urbanised and is now an inner suburb of Dublin. Also when I'm staying with some of my relatives I'm within walking distance of the less well-known Battle of Glenmalure.

Otherwise I can recall visiting the site of the Boyne, Hastings, a couple of Italian/Roman battles, and at least one battle of the American Civil War (can't remember which as I was about 4 years old) I'd like to visit more though, I'd love to see some of the sites of the Napoleonic Wars for example. Certainly sounds like an interesting niche of the travel market.

Antagonist

[Gregoshi]

I've been to just a few of the many battlefields I'd love to visit. Here's my list:

Gettysburg I've been here a couple of times in the past 5 years. As a family we did an evening "ghost walk" through the town. Quite eerie. My son and I did a bicycle ride through most of the battlefield. That was a very cool way to see the battlefield though the ride up Little Round Top (and Culp's Hill) was a struggle for someone in my shape.

Antietam is a much more concentrated battlefield than Gettysburg. After seeing Burnside's Bridge in person it is easy to see how so few Confederates could hold off so many Union troops. But then you look at the creek and it doesn't seem that deep. It makes you wonder what Burnside and his subordinates were thinking. The first Saturday in December, the battlefield holds The Memorial Illumination after sunset. The park's roads are lined wtih 23000 candles - one for each casualty in the battle. About 10 years ago, my brother and I were there the day they were going to have it but we had to leave before it started. It has always been my wish to go back and see the Illumination ever since that day.

The Battle of Brandywine, the largest battle of the American Revolutionary War, was fought about 10-12 miles from my house. Unfortunately, other than a small visitors center and some road markers, there is very little left to see. There is a lot of open ground around the battlefield, but it hasn't been developed as a park.

Valley Forge, while not a battle, was an important event in the American Revolution. This is another place local to me. There is quite a bit to see here. Probably the most interesting part is the soldiers huts and how short people were back then. For the locals, the park has more interest as a recreational area than a historical one.

As for "gotta see" battlefields, I'd love to spend a week or two in Virginia to see Mannassas, Fredricksburg and several other battlefields. Tennessee would be another to visit Shilo, Chickamaugua/Chattanoga, etc. Over in Europe I think I'd go nuts trying to decide what to visit, though I think Normandy would definitely be at the top of the list. Other than that, I think I'd need the help of my fellow European Orgahs to put together such a battlefield tour.

[IrishArmenian]

IrishArmenian, i did a google of vartan fields and came up with Battle of Vartanantz. is that the same as you meant? i think it would be, as the description is amenia vs the sassanids in 451.

Exactly. He's a full on Sante (Vartan) but I do not know if Catholics reconize him. Also he is the root of my mother's family tree.

[Pretorian]

Aljubarrota, Portugal - Well preserved medieval battlefield, museum and archeological excavations with a complex series of interlocking trenches, ditches, pitches, caltrops and graves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aljubarrota

I have to go see this one, afterall I'm Portuguese :D

[highlanddave]

thanks for all the great replys.

not quite battlefields, but some places i have yet to visit are military in nature.

the ships hms victory and hms warrior in southern england i think portsmouth i have visited their website and the ships look very interesting. the military tatoo in edinburgh, scotland. the military academies of west point in new york and sandhurst in england. i want to see their libraries and museums and just watch the cadets marching around campus.

one place i went in france was quite good, the military museum in paris. it is next to and i think associated with invalides. the object i found most appealling was a full armor suit with horse suit of armor that napoleons forces captured from a mamluke warrior in egypt. the entry room of the museum has battle flags the french forces captured way back in antiquity.

[r johnson]

Bosworth battle field - The last battle of the wars of the roses it's only 5miles away from me. It was nice to walk around the battle field, there also a museum full of armor etc they fount with a short movie about the battle and there's a nice cafe there too.

[rotorgun]

Has anyone ever visited the battlefield of the Battle of Austerlitz? I would appreciate a brief description if possible, as it is one of the most fascinating battles of the Napoleonic era.

Thanks,

[Lurker on the Threshold]

Johnstown NY. Battle of Johnstown. Last battle of the American Revolution, fought six days after the war ended.

Saratoga battle field. Turning point of the American revolution. You get a great feel for B. Arnold and what a great general he was prior to his unfortunate choices later on. Had he not become a traitor he would be one of our nations greatest heros'. He thwarted the british on numerous occations.

Cherry Valley: British and indian massacre during the revolution. Small and very personal battles. Captured americans forced to treck to Canada.


Any of the numerous small, largely forgotten, battlefields in the mohawk valley (NY). Many are still farm fields and probably look much the same as they did at the time of the battles.

Gettysburg for its sheer magnatude.

Battle at Kings Mountain (South Carolina) Am. revolution.
Very unique battle. (google it)

[C-F]

Some of the 'grounds' I've been to in last two years include

El Alamo, San Antonio,TX
Gibraltar,
Fort Frederica, St.Simons Island, GA - very 'strange' to get an almost identical feeling as in Gibraltar...

The bridge of Remagen, Rhine/Germany - one of the remaining bridgeheads (westside) has been transformed into a museum, very interesting!

In all its just very hard to imagine the actual living conditions much less the battle hardships these people must have gone through...and all these are relative 'recent' history just rewind another 2k years and try to imagine...

[highlanddave]

rotorgun i never got to eastern europe so i do not have first hand knowledge. i did some internet searching and found this:

http://www.austerlitz.org/en/obce/slavkov/

the current name of austerlitz is slavkov u brno

the website says there are walking trails, but it sounds like you got to do alot of your own pre-trip research to know what you are looking at. there are several town/cities that cover the battlefield now.

any czechs on this forum? how about some info?

[highlanddave]

sorry, any slovaks on this forum *my bad*

[highlanddave]

jeez, had it right the first time. czech republic. my atlas is out of date. i wish i could edit my posts. maybe they will make me a member soon.

[rotorgun]

Thanks a bunch highlanddave for the great Austerlitz site! I really appreciate the excelent maps provided as well. I hope one day to go there myself, but at the current cost, I just can't swing it right now. I'll have to remember this tactic when playing the TW games. Luring the enemy as Napoleon was able to do is an outstanding ploy if one can pull it off.

Appreciate it,

[Samurai Waki]

Little Big Horn is kind of an interesting place to go. When your there it's pretty obvious why Custer's force was slaughtered.

Wounded Knee Where Big Foot and Tribe was massacred by the American Army. You wouldn't know it when your there that so many innocents were killed in the name of Manifest Destiny.

Monte Cassino Makes you appreciate what Allied Soldiers did there, also gives you appreciation for Albert Kesselring's Tactical Genius.

Baclava Very Interesting place to go. Theres a small historical building there, but I think the Soviets really propagandised it during the Communist Era, because there was no mention of the Light Brigade.

Although the place that gave me the most eerie feeling was walking through downtown Sarajevo at night...by myself... I will never do that again.

[matteus the inbred]

I like to visit battlefields too...all English so far though.

Marston Moor, 1644, has a nice monument and guide to the largest pitched battle of the ECW. Close to it is the biggest battle in the Wars of the Roses... Towton, 1461, nicely accessible and topographically rewarding, the local church is also worth a visit, as it has the grave of Lord Dacres, allegedly buried on his horse.
Hastings, 1066, I've done re-enactment stuff here, it's quite good but a bit touristy, lots to see though the actual field is a bit over grown as I recall.
Flodden, 1513, panoramic but the weather was awful.

Many of England's battlefields are now covered with housing estates sadly, I'd like to visit the ACW ones, and perhaps also some of the major Peninsular war fields, many of which seem to be in good condition.

[highlanddave]

wakizashi those were interesting battles quite all over the world. you must get to travel quite a bit to get so diverse areas to go to.

i saw a special on the balaclava battle as they were doing some archeology. they had quite a hard time since almost the whole of the crimea is strewn with world war 2 stuff. they showed a close up of the ground and it was chock full of bullet casings from machine guns. that makes using metal detection equipment a little useless.

off topic: yeah, i made member today!

[Samurai Waki]

@ Highlanddave

Yes. Sorry. Balaclava.

I really got on a travelling kick about 2 years ago. I think I was home for a total of about a week within those 2 years, so there was plenty of going about the world, and having the odd chance of visiting someplace historical, even though thats not really why I was travelling.

[highlanddave]

matteus the inbred did you get a chance to get a pic of yourself or the battle groups while doing the hastings reinactment? that would be cool to see the battle groups doing their thing.

that is okay if you only see local battlefields, they are interesting too. around me they are all american civil war sites. the only really old one is actually interesting is called blood mountain in north georgia. a battle occured there before white men ever landed in america and the indians living there knew nothing about it either. all they know is a ton of arrowpoints are everywhere. so, sometime in pre-history there was a big battle there between indian tribes.

[rotorgun]

Hey highlanddave, how close are you to Chicamagua battlefield? I would really like to try and make it there this fall? Maybe we could meet and see it together. It was a brilliant victory for the South, despite the incompetence of General Bragg during the battle.

Regards,

[highlanddave]

hi rotorgun, i have sent you a pm.