MTW Campaign Question

[GodWillsIt]

Are the Germans doomed in MTW? I have played 1,000 campaigns and not once seen the Germans dominate. I have seen the Turks in Finland, Hungarians in Egypt, French in Bohemia, Almohads in Idle De France, Italians in Tunisia, Spanish in Arabia, the Byzantines in Normandy, The English in Cordoba, Danes in Volga-Bulgaria, but never the Germans any further than Rome?

Have you seen different?

[macsen rufus]

Yup - in one Turkish campaign I met the Germans in Khazar and Volga-Bulgaria

[Ludens]

They do expand occasionally, when their neighbours have left them (mostly) in peace for some time. But yeah, usually they collapse sooner or later.

[Martok]

Yeah, the HRE seems to be more prone to civil war than any other faction in the game. All they have to do is either lose a couple provinces or be ex-commed, and suddenly half their territory goes rebel. (It's proved quite useful in my Bohemian campaign. )

But to echo Ludens, yes they do get big now and then. Generally, however, they need a few lucky breaks (like being left alone AND not being ex-commed) to do so.

[King Kurt]

In my current sicilian campaign they are still around and are a resonable size - but not mega.
GodWills It - how have you played 1,000 campaigns!! - I manage about 4 or 5 a year. You must spend a lot of time in front of a PC - I am deeply envious.

[GodWillsIt]

In my current sicilian campaign they are still around and are a resonable size - but not mega.
GodWills It - how have you played 1,000 campaigns!! - I manage about 4 or 5 a year. You must spend a lot of time in front of a PC - I am deeply envious.

i never said i finished 1,000 campaigns in my recent campaign w/the English, the Germans have wiped out the French and are about to finish off the Poles.

[Celtic_Guardian]

Whenever i play they always appear to be sort of stagnant, and the Danes send super stacks everywhere.

[Martok]

Hey King Kurt, good to see you again! I don't suppose we could hear about your Sicilian campaign, could we? (I'm currently giving the Bohemians a try in XL.)

Whenever i play they always appear to be sort of stagnant, and the Danes send super stacks everywhere.

The Danes? Really? Wow, that's pretty contrary to my experience. In my games, they usually don't do much aside from taking a Baltic province or two, and maybe nibbling a bit on HRE territory. Not that they don't get big now and then, but it doesn't happen any more often than the HRE becoming powerful.

[Archayon]

Yup - in one Turkish campaign I met the Germans in Khazar and Volga-Bulgaria

In my campaigns, they sometimes crush the French, and in some cases (i think when the Italiens are excom. or face civil wars), they use the decreasing pressure to send crusades, and lots of them.
the HRR never really dominates in my campaigns, but they often own provinces in the weirdest parts of the map (like north of the Black Sea, or northern Africa).


Just wondering, in that Turkish campaign of yours, did their empire really stretch from the French to Khazar? (i never saw them crushing both the Huns and Poland, without losing their starting provinces)

[macsen rufus]

I'm not sure how far west they went, as I don't usually matteosartori the map (not that I never do it, just rarely ).

Regarding factions in wierd places: playing GH in XL - the Nasrids hang on in WALES, the French in Ireland and the Fatimids in Rome! (Last surviving province for each faction....)

[posty]

Most of the AI-controlled factions (minus Italy & the Byz) build few boats or trading posts, limiting their economy & expansion flexibility.

My experience has been that most of the Catholic factions' expansion comes about from Crusades; then after they get conquered, they'll re-emerge in one of their previously-held crusade provinces - leading to the Bizarro world of HRE respawning in Edessa, Poland springing up in Egypt, etc.

All that said, I agree with GodWillsIt: tho' they're huge in the beginning, I've never seen HRE expand beyond Venice.

[King Noob the Stupid]

In XL the HRE always gets pwn3d, most of times because every country bordering them attacks them at the same time, they soon are limited to tyrolia and/or switzerland and 10-15 turns later they're completely gone (Danes often conquer most of HRE territory using their apparently very cost-effective uberVikings (I always play on early)), re-emergencies happen sometimes, in some cases they can establish in 4-5 provs and stagnate but often they are killed off for a second time.

About the danish world rule thing: In my current Irish XL campaign (hard, about 1250AD now), Danes apparently have conquered all of Spain+Portugal, half of modern-day France and all of northern Africa and the near east, all the islamic nations except the Volga Bulgars were crushed (well about 1220 the Danes had a little civil war and the Almoravids returned, as well as the Fatimids, the seljuks (don't know who originally conquered them, think it had been byz, which now have been destroyed by an alliance of the danes and GH) reappear all the time but they usually get crushed 1-2 yrs later. On the other hand, the Danes have lost all their northern european realms to Kiev and /me (Irish) and as I play GA, I got more points than them anyway ;)

[SCRIBE]

Ah the so called 'Holy Roman Empire', yea well they always fragment sooner or later. During my Byzantine campaign, in 1346AD, they are left with Austria and the province right above it, forgot the name tho. While the Spanish was owning throughout half the 1200 reaching into Normandy to Arabia, with the French Crusader states as a Byzantine protectorate. It all changed was I knew that the Spanish wont stop expanding. So I had to own them. I now have beautiful lands stretching from Novgorod to Hungary to Tunisia to the whole Iberian Peninsula. Bringing back to the HRE, there neutral guys, but a future thorn on my side if I want to bring back Roman glory.

[King Kurt]

Hey King Kurt, good to see you again! I don't suppose we could hear about your Sicilian campaign, could we? (I'm currently giving the Bohemians a try in XL.)

Martok

Yes, I have been following your Bohemian efforts - seems they are better suited for drinking coffee, wearing long jumpers and discussing poetry than conquering Europe!!!

Sicily is on the back burner at the moment, too many holidays, kids off school, work etc for a few hours in front of the screen. The current situation is that the Spanish are annoying me, so I am about to remove them from Asia Minor - which could be interesting as all provinces were gained by crusades so that should be a massive blow against Spanish influence. Also I have just been excommed - for no apparent reason as far as I can see!! - so my forces in Italy are about to raise the Papal states to the ground - remove the Pope, destroy the infrastructure and then leave - do not want to be there for the re-emergance. When i have a bit more story to tell, I will post in see Naples and die.

[Martok]

Martok

Yes, I have been following your Bohemian efforts - seems they are better suited for drinking coffee, wearing long jumpers and discussing poetry than conquering Europe!!!

LOL. Yes, it would seem that way. Maloncanth is going to give them a crack, so hopefully he'll have more luck than I will!

In the meantime, I've started another campaign as the Norwegians. Things are going *much* better this time around.

Sicily is on the back burner at the moment, too many holidays, kids off school, work etc for a few hours in front of the screen. The current situation is that the Spanish are annoying me, so I am about to remove them from Asia Minor - which could be interesting as all provinces were gained by crusades so that should be a massive blow against Spanish influence. Also I have just been excommed - for no apparent reason as far as I can see!! - so my forces in Italy are about to raise the Papal states to the ground - remove the Pope, destroy the infrastructure and then leave - do not want to be there for the re-emergance. When i have a bit more story to tell, I will post in see Naples and die.

Cool man. Looking forward to hearing more when you have time!

[Arciel]

Do the HRE really collapse sooner or later?? In most of my campaigns, especially the English one, it's always me, the Byz, Almohads(or Spanish, whoever wins) and the HRE completely dominating the map... Of course, there's also this weird campaign I had, the initial rebels(the rebels at the start of the game) conquered half of europe!! Not just because of civil warr or anything like that, they just moved from province to province, eliminating the Hungarians, Polish, Novgorods, and the Italians.. That was one crazy campaign all right...

[naut]

Yes they do seem very prone to rebellion.

[Martok]

Do the HRE really collapse sooner or later?? In most of my campaigns, especially the English one, it's always me, the Byz, Almohads(or Spanish, whoever wins) and the HRE completely dominating the map... Of course, there's also this weird campaign I had, the initial rebels(the rebels at the start of the game) conquered half of europe!! Not just because of civil warr or anything like that, they just moved from province to province, eliminating the Hungarians, Polish, Novgorods, and the Italians.. That was one crazy campaign all right...

Yes, that is pretty unusual, Seedexodus. In most games, the HRE is very prone to falling into civil war--mostly from either losing a couple provinces, and/or from being excommunicated. So despite their size, the Germans are usually fairly easy pickings. This is particularly true if you get a coalition of factions to gang up on them.