Research: Unit Morale

[Tamur]

Stub

[Tamur]

After reading professorspatula's response to my little formations & morale thread in the Colloseum, I did some reading here and at twcenter and found that most people discount morale as a useful stat to modify. Not everyone does, but the majority.

Since I have only seen and read very anecdotal evidence on this subject, I thought I would run a few tests to prove or disprove the theory that stat_mental has limited effect on battles.

Admittedly, my testing was limited, but what I did find was a linear and powerful effect when stat_mental was changed drastically. It seems to have the effect of lowering the speed with which a unit suffers casualties, but seems to have no effect on unit strength at routing.



Method:

1. I am using a double-hitpoint, 70-90% movement mod, with no other modifications to vanilla 1.5 RTW.

2. Twelve test battles were run: three with 63 morale, five with 31 morale, and four with 0 morale.

3. All tests were run with 121 member Princeps units (122 for general unit). This was consistently the Julii vs Brutii, with three units per army.

4. The units had no chevron, armour or weapon upgrades.

5. I recorded the time from the first pila throw to when the unit routed, and its strength at routing.

I thought at first that there might also be a correlation between morale and strength of the unit at routing. However, there was no correlation. 31-morale units routed with an average of 41 of the unit left, while zero-morale units routed with an average of 40.

This test is of course not conclusive. More testing with different unit types at the same morale settings, or mixed morale settings, would be of interest.

[professorspatula]

Surely you are better off testing units which don't have a chance to inflict random amounts of damage before closing in to attack? Basic spearmen or Iberian infantry for example. Your tests will be more controlled each time. You can also guarantee further accuracy by clicking on the enemy to attack from the very beginning of the test battle. The same set of circumstances should occur each time before the units clash in theory, without being concerned with whether or not the same number of pilums have been thrown before the two sides clash. It's a minor thing, but you might as well be thorough.

By the way, what are these mods that don't mess with the mental stat? Just about every mod I know of mentions increasing this stat, as well other ones. Anyway, have fun with your research. I know from my thousands of custom battles, it can get a bit tedious after a while.

[Severous]

This research suggests thats
- units rout when they have the same number of men irrespective of their 'stat_mental'.
- high 'stat_mental' slows the rate of casualties.

This doesnt seem logical.

I have noticed that rapid casualties cause a unit to break early. Slow rate of casualties allows a unit to hang in there for longer.

Are there other 'morale' variables that can be modded?

When a unit description says it has high morale...is it this 'Stat_mental' that is high?

[Tamur]

hi Severous,

stat_mental consists of three parts: base morale level, discipline (normal, low, disciplined and imperious), and finally training (untrained, trained, and highly trained). The only part of it I modified was base morale level. Perhaps discipline affects at what population a unit routs? I don't know, will have to test that as well.

And with better units. Thanks again professor for the suggestions and blunder-pointers, I'll use non-missile units from now on.

[Puzz3D]

There could be a big morale penalty coming in at that level of decimation. In the old engine, there was a permanent morale penalty for level of decimation compared to the original unit size and a dynamic morale penalty for the ratio of men lost in a combat cycle compared to the unit's size at the end of the previous combat cycle.

I wonder why the unit is fighting for different lengths of time if it's routing at the same level of decimation?

It might be helpful to measure the rout point. You just take one unit and keep lowering the morale until it runs away when you start the battle. Don't use the general's unit because it may be getting a morale boost. Keep the general's unit far away so it doesn't give a morale boost to the test unit. Later you can use the general's unit and measure the size of the morale boost it gets and the morale boost it gives if any. All these tests are much easier to do if you have a LAN and two machines because you have complete control over everything.

[guineawolf]

After reading professorspatula's response to my little formations & morale thread in the Colloseum, I did some reading here and at twcenter and found that most people discount morale as a useful stat to modify. Not everyone does, but the majority.

Since I have only seen and read very anecdotal evidence on this subject, I thought I would run a few tests to prove or disprove the theory that stat_mental has limited effect on battles.

Admittedly, my testing was limited, but what I did find was a linear and powerful effect when stat_mental was changed drastically. It seems to have the effect of lowering the speed with which a unit suffers casualties, but seems to have no effect on unit strength at routing.



Method:

1. I am using a double-hitpoint, 70-90% movement mod, with no other modifications to vanilla 1.5 RTW.

2. Twelve test battles were run: three with 63 morale, five with 31 morale, and four with 0 morale.

3. All tests were run with 121 member Princeps units (122 for general unit). This was consistently the Julii vs Brutii, with three units per army.

4. The units had no chevron, armour or weapon upgrades.

5. I recorded the time from the first pila throw to when the unit routed, and its strength at routing.

I thought at first that there might also be a correlation between morale and strength of the unit at routing. However, there was no correlation. 31-morale units routed with an average of 41 of the unit left, while zero-morale units routed with an average of 40.

This test is of course not conclusive. More testing with different unit types at the same morale settings, or mixed morale settings, would be of interest.

i think Tamur have thoughit a slightly different,he get another side,perhaps it is not rout at the count of dead,but the dead that bring down the units strength(numbers)compare to enemy unit strength do make the friendly unit decide to rout.The numbers/strength(strength=combat ability=attack,i am not sure defense in the count or not?) that post a outnumbered/overwhelming threat to another unit that cause it to rout.

If both side got a general having:
10 star command(+10 morale and +10 attack), *1 command star=+1 attack,+1 morale
famously courageous(+3 morale),
roman hero(+3 morale),national hero(+4 morale)
casual adulterer(+2 morale)
bloody(+1 command,+1 morale),
understanding of logistic(+1 morale),
rational concerns(+1 morale),
obsessioner trainer(+1 morale),
positive(1 influence,+1 morale),
armourer(retinue +1 morale),
comedian(retinue +1 morale),
and a lot of it.....

you will see troops of both side will fight to death!...with no routers...

i am not sure about traits above are completely upgradeded or not.....

[TWConqueror]

Do officers like the Centurion have any effect?

[Ludens]

Do officers like the Centurion have any effect?

I don't think anybody ever investigated that, but I am guessing they don't.