Mexican Flag raised over US Post Office

[Productivity]

Pardon me if my "technique" is not up to your standards. If you feel so strongly that my methods are flawed, feel free to challenge me to greater heights.



Now quit derailing the topic with this so-called "Technical Critique," unless you care to actually make a point about the issue at hand instead of my choice of words.

I am not derailing the topic, I am directly critiquing one of your arguments. Until such time as that argument is withdrawn, the "Technical Critique" is valid as it is part of the process of refutation of a live point.

I will summarise. Your comparison of this action, to a foreign flag being flown over Buckingham Palace implies that this post office, has the same value to the average American, as Buckingham Palace does to the average Englishman. While I have no proof (and I suspect you have no counter-proof) of this, it intuitively makes more sense that there is not parity in value placed upon these structures, than your implication, as such I claim that your argument ("Seeing the Mexican Flag over an extension of the US Government is just as significant."), which is contingent upon the above point is invalid.

[JFC]

"My mother always told me that violence doesn't solve anything. "

"Really? I wonder what the city founders of Hiroshima would have to say about that. "

"They wouldn't say anything. Hiroshima was destroyed. "

"Correct. Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst."

STARSHIP TROOPERS

[Ser Clegane]

Now quit derailing the topic with this so-called "Technical Critique," unless you care to actually make a point about the issue at hand instead of my choice of words.

Criticism about the choice of words seems absolutely valid here when an overdramatization of the situation (i.e. by comparing a post office to the Buckingham Palace) is used as justification for violent actions.

A lot of people would probably agree that raising a foreign flag on the Buckingham Palace or the White House would justify a harsher reaction than raising such a flag on a post office.

[macsen rufus]

Cube-dude: Comparing a lowly post office to Buck House is an egregious exaggeration, thereby implying your advocacy of a violent "solution" is equally likely to be an over-reaction. The medium is the message. You do your case no good by flying into hyperbole.

Now a French flag over my local post office would probably make me chuckle quietly. Seeing Colonel Blimp huffing and puffing about it and waving his shotgun around the high street would have me pissing my pants laughing.

[Ser Clegane]

Now we have moderators derailing the topic, too? Fine, I guess I'll play ball and defend my choice of words. Nevermind that that sentance was quite possibly one of the least signficant points i've made in this thread. Might the fact that most of my other points remain unanswered have something to do with this niggling sentance being an easy mark? Who knows?

What points? You claim that violence is inevitable without providing any argument to back up this hypothesis.

By overdramatizing you try to create the impression that the South of your country is at the brink of a war and claim that nothing is being done - yet the very short article all this ruckus here is based on clearly states that the police has been intervening.

The police handling such an act of vandalism is the appropriate reaction. You seem to call for tanks and violence to avoid "inevitable" violence. Inevitable indeed, when people with a mindset as your's (i.e. regularly calling for violence and unrestricted war as a solution to problems) would have to handle the situation.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It would seem to me that the solution would be to take down the flag, then work out who put it up and fine them. If they can't pay up they go to gaol for a period of time.

Iwould suggest a $1-2,000 fine or 2-4 weeks in gaol.

If every incident was treated like this that would probably restore order.

[Xiahou]

Cube-dude: Comparing a lowly post office to Buck House is an egregious exaggeration, thereby implying your advocacy of a violent "solution" is equally likely to be an over-reaction. The medium is the message. You do your case no good by flying into hyperbole.

Good point, the two are different. For one, a post office actually serves a useful government function.

[yesdachi]

Good point, the two are different. For one, a post office actually serves a useful government function.

Zing!

[Gregoshi]

Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor Mexican flags stays these
couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.

[Dutch_guy]

Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor Mexican flags stays these
couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.

[edyzmedieval]

You won't do that ... the Chinese can bomb back.

As a second solution, try bombing the armament deposits too so you won't have any fight back stuff.

@Xiahou

Yeap, at least it does it's rightful duty.

[whyidie]

They were unable to bring the flag down ? How difficult is it to bring a flag down ? Maybe they weren't trying hard enough.

Bring the flag down.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Gelcube:


I've enjoyed your argument thus far. I can tell that neither you nor Pat Buchannan want this issue to slip to the 6th or 7th spot of importance in the minds of the voters (which, sadly, it has).

Your point, setting aside all of the specifics and turning to the theme, is:

A political entity that does not or cannot enforce its sovereignty over its territory is doomed to be supplanted.

Thus, this whole incident for you is symptomatic of a larger problem.


This "sanctuary" town -- choosing not to enforce its own state's laws -- should be brought back into the fold. To allow it to continue to flout the laws of the state while still claiming to be a part of that entity is inherently dangerous for the state. It should either toe the line or secede.

[yesdachi]

How close to treason is this Mayor?
It sounds like he is turning his back on the law and giving up his city to illegals

[Xiahou]

Anyone have any additional news about this besides the original post?

Speaking of which, if you want to see how truly unhinged some of these people are- read the comment on that page where the police are accused of being Nazis/Aryan supremacists for trying to take down the flag.

[Tribesman]

Anyone have any additional news about this besides the original post?
What , you mean about the story of the protest by two anti-immigrant groups in a town with lots of immigrants leading to a counter protest by the towns residents .
Nah , havn't heard anything about it .
What a bunch of pussies , if I was hispanic and living in Maywood I would have made sure there was a mexican flag on every lampost and every building for the duration of the minuteman protest .

BTW Save our State was the other protesting group , and post#1 was pretty much bollox if you mean that by "original post" . Or do you mean the brief snippet from the indymedia link ?

[Divinus Arma]

The leftist liberals will win. There are too many of them. Natural selection has been unable to take place and waves upon waves of lazy stupid ingrates swell their ranks. The illegals will win. The socialists will win. America is being destroyed from within. Our external enemies need only to wait and they will have everything they desire.

[Papewaio]

Just go through the normal course of action.

Escalate to the next level of authourity as needed/required by law. I'm sure there are some rules for mayors flouting state/federal law such as having state funds axed. And I'm pretty sure if a large state & federal immigration office was setup in Maywood they would have easy pickings... if there are a lot of ducks at a pond one doesn't complain, one sets up a blind and goes hunting.

If someone adovates using military force on women and children because of their ethnic group...

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Oh yay, the UK is having no trouble with immigrants.

I think its easier to cross a border than the atlantic ocean

[Samurai Waki]

... meh. I Live in South California. I see mexicans every single day of my life... do I care that they have national pride? no... not really. I just think it's more intuitive to raise a flag on your porch that says "**** Mexico, the Arapaho spirit will live in this land forever."

[Duke of Gloucester]

I think its easier to cross a border than the atlantic ocean

Of course the UK does have a land border. It is so easy to cross that unless you are alert you might not realise you have passed from one country to another.

[Tribesman]

Natural selection has been unable to take place and waves upon waves of lazy stupid ingrates swell their ranks.
You really shouldn't talk about the Minutemen like that Divinus .

[Don Corleone]

In my mind, this just proves the point one more time that Mexicans have no desire to integrate and join with America. They are here to take as much money out of the system as they can and send it home and they don't have much loyalty or affection for their hosts. Anybody who hires illegal immigrants ought to seriously consider what else somebody who broke the law to get into the country... who's to say they won't rob or assault you when you don't want to pay them anymore? Even if they don't have the stones for it themselves, they can still make money by selling your info to La Eme, Nuestra Familia or the ominpresent MS13.

That being said, I don't know that an armed response is the answer in this case. Take note everyone... in this fall's elections, find out how your congressional delegation voted. If they voted against tightening border security, be they Republican or Democrat, vote against them and for whomever WILL actually enforce the laws of the land and defend ourselves against a wave of parasites.

[Redleg]

That being said, I don't know that an armed response is the answer in this case. Take note everyone... in this fall's elections, find out how your congressional delegation voted. If they voted against tightening border security, be they Republican or Democrat, vote against them and for whomever WILL actually enforce the laws of the land and defend ourselves against a wave of parasites.

This is the correct method in dealing with the issue in a democratic society. Find out how your representives are voting and what measures they have introduced to address such issues. Be it State or Federal.

Many states have for years failed to address the enforcement of the labor laws and we are currently paying the price for that. Yes folks the enforcement of laws is not just the relm of the Federal Government but states to enforce the law. For instance for many years (to include today) there was an INS form that the new employee was to sign stating that they were authorized to work in the United States. Many Employer's would not have their employee's sign that document.

Then their is the failure of local law enforcement to follow thru on routine law enforcement. One of the Governors of the state of Oregon once announced that all state law enforcement officials would not enforce any immigrantion laws.

One wonders why such issues happen - all one has to do is look at the long history of immigrantion law non-enforcement. Cheap labor from illegal immigrants has lead to non-enforcement of the law. Which leads to non-assimalition into the new nation.

[Don Corleone]

You're absolutely right. Given the current political equation, I am not surprised at all that nobody in government is willing to step up on this issue, at any level.

When you do political Calculus, it's not simply the number of potential voters impacted... it's the number of potential voters that will recognize your contribution one way or the other.... since Middle America (blue and white collar) refuse to speak on this issue, politicians rightly assume they cannot get any benefit from playing to them. What's left? For leftys, more voters and for rightys, happier corporate sponsors.

[yesdachi]

since Middle America (blue and white collar) refuse to speak on this issue,

It has been my observation that Middle America is the voice that is speaking out loudest on the issue, and they are saying they don’t like it. That is why I am so surprised that we are not doing more. It seems that most don’t like the illegals here and think that the laws should be enforced more strictly and that the boarders need to be better protected. For some reason the politicians don’t seem to be able to read this or don’t see it as smart move to oppose the Latino population and loose their vote.

It seems like if you are illegal or a supporter of illegals in the US that you are bulletproof from any prosecution for breaking the laws right in front of everyone.

[Don Corleone]

Well, have YOU contacted your congressional delegation telling them that you're thinking of voting straight anti-incumbent, strictly because of his/her lack of action on this issue? To be perfectly honest, I haven't. But even if you and I do, that's 2 people. Middle America is busy going about their 50 hour workweeks, taking the kids to soccer and it would appear all they have the time to do is whine about it. I'd say collecting inputs with groups like the Minutemen certainly helps... when the Minutemen call up Arlen Specter and say that 30% of his base is in their membership rolls, he might actually start realizing there are consequences for going the wrong way.

As it stands, everybody just pisses in the wind, whining that nobody's doing anything. When you compare that to the organized movement afoot in the illegal immigrant community with groups like La Rasa, you start to understand why pols don't seem to hear the majority.

[yesdachi]

Well, have YOU contacted your congressional delegation...

Funny you should mention it, I spoke with Scott Harvey one of my districts candidates for the senate just the other day about the very subject. He stopped by while campaigning, nice guy and aside from his opposition to apportion and his side stepping of the immigration question I like him, personable fella. But the incumbent is pro-choice and also sidesteps the immigration issue. We’ll see but at least I know the choices.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Of course the UK does have a land border. It is so easy to cross that unless you are alert you might not realise you have passed from one country to another.

i think we're talking about mexican immigrants then UK immigrants

[Duke of Gloucester]

I think Crazed Rabbit was talking about immigration in general, but he can speak for himself.