New Unit: Scots Guard

[Templar Knight]

www.totalwar.com

Looks nice

[Mr. Longbowman]

Looks good!

[ShadesWolf]

What the #### is a scots guard ?

[professorspatula]

Well at least they're not wearing a kilt I suppose.

[Templar Knight]

lol, I fear that the highlander units will be wearing kilts

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

What the #### is a scots guard ?

Many scots fought for the French armies during the Hundred years War such as at Poitiers and Verneuil. The first members of the Guard were around 450 men, around 300 being archers around the year 1419. Over the years more than 15,000 men would depart scotland and serve in the French armies. I think they are good. As long as they are small in number and can't challenge the englsih in the field. A ceremonial guard unit i can live with. This armour is fine also as for a bodygurard unit you would expect some armour

[ShadesWolf]

Many scots fought for the French armies during the Hundred years War such as at Poitiers and Verneuil. The first members of the Guard were around 450 men, around 300 being archers around the year 1419. Over the years more than 15,000 men would depart scotland and serve in the French armies. I think they are good. As long as they are small in number and can't challenge the englsih in the field. A ceremonial guard unit i can live with. This armour is fine also as for a bodygurard unit you would expect some armour

Yes around the year 1419, roughly the same period as Franc archers
But what effect could they have on the outcome of any battle. They would be using up one of the 20 units.

[Templar Knight]

Yea, I hope they don't equal/outmatch the English longbow. They will probably be highly expensive so there wont be many taking the field.

[Spino]

What the #### is a scots guard ?

Isn't it a chemical that helps keep stains off of clothing?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

If they are small in unit and bows are significantly reduced i'm ok by it. The Franc archer will probably not make it now but i suppose i can live with that. One Guard unit is enough for me. I just hope with the diverse units CA are obviously looking at they get a few for the english. A simple infantry man armed with a falchion, a mounted infantry maybe a Gascon, a welsh and/or Cornish auxillary from the early campaigns such as at Crecy i would like to see. No knights of the Garter or anything like that, we don't need another Grail style unit. I know a few of the english lords were part of it but didn't band together as uber knights.

What was the French equivalent Shades? Wsa the Golden Fleece? Or it was it something else?

[ShadesWolf]

Yea, I hope they don't equal/outmatch the English longbow. They will probably be highly expensive so there wont be many taking the field.

I do hope if we have scots guards, then we will also have franc archers.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I do hope if we have scots guards, then we will also have franc archers.

I think we will. I have high hopes for this game. The units really do look quality. The billmen and bowmen i saw in Burebista's pics really look great. I nice scummy, hard looking border reiver with short crossbow, lance and steel bonnet would really impress me mind.

[ShadesWolf]

We might be actually able to re-create a few battles from the period if you are upto it

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I would love to do an Age of Warlords style mod for Medieval 2. That would be a dream. I remember us planning a war of the roses multi player with Duke John and a few fellas a year or so back. When the time comes closer i would love to rmake a few historical battles, just depends if my computer can stand the game because at the moment i doubt it mate

[GFX707]

If they are small in unit and bows are significantly reduced i'm ok by it.

Why does everyone want them to be gimped? We are talking about 1419 here. Unless this game turns out like MTW these units will be competing against superior firepower by that period anyway. A longbow is a longbow.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

All i'm saying is that they shouldn't be taking on english/welsh bowmen with the same sort of numbers and accuracy. The scots were never famed for their bowmen neither were the French, save the Franc Archers and the hiring of Genoese Bowmen

No nation used the mass numbers if warbowmen like the Englsih did. It took from infancy to train a great bowman. The scots and French simply didn't use them in significant numbers

[Darsh]

All i'm saying is that they shouldn't be taking on english/welsh bowmen with the same sort of numbers and accuracy. The scots were never famed for their bowmen neither were the French, save the Franc Archers and the hiring of Genoese Bowmen

No nation used the mass numbers if warbowmen like the Englsih did. It took from infancy to train a great bowman. The scots and French simply didn't use them in significant numbers

I don't agree "la garde Ecossaise" is one of the best French archers and could kill any longbowmen 1vs1 but they are only a royal guard and should be a small groupe and cost a lot of Florins.

thw CA for this wonderful French unique unit .

[r johnson]

I thought the Scots guards was a eighteeth century add on to the army. Anyway looks good

[B-Wing]

Being nearly illiterate in military history, I find this unit very interesting. I like the look, and the bow seems like an interesting weapon for a Scottish unit. From reading this thread, it seems that most everyone expects the bow to be a longbow, is that correct? I didn't realize anyone other than the Welsh and English ever used the longbow. And what are these "French archers" that several people have mentioned? French longbowmen?

[highlanddave]

what is wrong with having highlanders wear kilts? jeesh.. would you rather them wear pants like in the last medieval total war?

[Tamur]

I happen to like my great kilt, and so do my co-workers! *stares down co-worker protests*

Anyway, as usual it looks very nice. This one, plus the cannon threads etc make me more and more curious about recruitment limits and the pools and all. I wonder if the recruitment pools will be easily moddable? That would be positively brilliant to have all that info in the settlements file.

[Spino]

All i'm saying is that they shouldn't be taking on english/welsh bowmen with the same sort of numbers and accuracy. The scots were never famed for their bowmen neither were the French, save the Franc Archers and the hiring of Genoese Bowmen

No nation used the mass numbers if warbowmen like the Englsih did. It took from infancy to train a great bowman. The scots and French simply didn't use them in significant numbers

I wouldn't worry too much about it, the recruitment pools for this unit should be pretty small.

[Orb]

Looks like an excuse to give the French a generic elite archer unit...

I don't have much of a problem with it, I just hope they keep all the factions fairly unique.

[Masy]

Huzzah, a thorn in the bum for those Sassenachs! Seriously though, units keep looking better and better, and I can't wait to start a brand spanking new scots campaign. Lets just hope gameplay is as lovely as the graphics!

[Templar Knight]

what is wrong with having highlanders wear kilts? jeesh.. would you rather them wear pants like in the last medieval total war?

The Braveheart style kilt was not around until the mid 1500's, possibly later, so I hope the highlanders are similar to Gallowglasses of the period as they were essentially highland mercenaries.

[B-Wing]

Looks like an excuse to give the French a generic elite archer unit...

Wait, are these units (Scotch guards) available to the French? That only makes sense if the French are allied with the Scots at the time. Come to think of it, it doesn't make sense to be able to "recruit" Scottish units from your own populace when you're not Scottish. If these units can only be produced by the French, they're going to be pretty unrealistic all around.

[econ21]

And what are these "French archers" that several people have mentioned? French longbowmen?

Yup. A case of if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Or something like that. They did not really take off in great numbers, perhaps because the French discovered cannon could beat the longbow.

Wait, are these units (Scotch guards) available to the French? That only makes sense if the French are allied with the Scots at the time. Come to think of it, it doesn't make sense to be able to "recruit" Scottish units from your own populace when you're not Scottish. If these units can only be produced by the French, they're going to be pretty unrealistic all around.

I am not seeing why it's unrealistic. There are many examples in history of nationals of one country forming an elite unit in another, without either an alliance or a counterpart in their home country. Think of the Varangian guard or the Swiss guards in pre-revolutionary France (or the Vatican) or even the French foreign legion.

[IrishArmenian]

I thought the kilt, early on did not have the clan pattern on. The Highlanders could also wear loose trosers, as some Scots did.

[B-Wing]

Thanks for the French longbow info, econ21.

I am not seeing why it's unrealistic. There are many examples in history of nationals of one country forming an elite unit in another, without either an alliance or a counterpart in their home country. Think of the Varangian guard or the Swiss guards in pre-revolutionary France (or the Vatican) or even the French foreign legion.

Well, what I was refering to was the way that recruiting units depletes a province's population. You can't make Scotts from Frenchmen (that is, recruit Scottish soldiers from a French city's population). I assume that Scottish immigrants were not a regular minority among the continental French population, so any Scottish troops in the French army should be mercenaries, the way I see it. Maybe I'm getting too technical with things. I know in RTW, Carthage could produce Iberian infantry anywhere, but that always kind of bothered me. I prefered RTR's more realistic recruitment system.

So it just seems to me that if the French faction can "produce" Scottish units, they should come from some other source than their own population. If they are only available as mercenaries, then that would be a good way to keep their numbers in check, which is a concern a couple others have expressed.

[poo_for_brains]

the recruitment pool concept will keep their numbers in check.

As for your suggestion that they are not part of the population, it's a fair one, but one could argue that the population increases of the settlements also reflects immigration, as well as the birth rate, and so immigrants count as part of your population.

Also, if they were mercenaries, is there any way to stop them fighting for the English, if they advance into France, because they never would have done that.