Camillian Triarii

**JeffBag** · 08-28-2006, 11:05

Good day,

In your description of the Camillian(early) Triarii, it is said that they are equipped in the 'old hoplite fashion'. Isn't that suggestive of the classical overarm style of fighting with interlocking shields, coupled with a charge into battle? Right now they are given that 'phalanx mode' option which makes them look rather odd especially with that huge aspis of theirs.

Perhaps someone could enlighten me on this?

**Olaf The Great** · 08-28-2006, 12:02

I agree and their shield isn't big its actually the smaller Clipeus/aspis shield not a A Hoplon, which is supported by the Iphri/Late Hoplites, but since they are in the traditional phalanx they should be more like Eki's(ekadromoi) and Hypas/Bak-Agema.

**Zastrow** · 09-02-2006, 04:13

I've also wondered about this, shouldn't the Polybian legions be around by the start of the Game? I don't think the Triarii were fighting at Phalanxes during the Punic Wars.

Maybe I'm just confused but I thought the Roman army progression was.

Camillian ---> Polybian ----> Scipio -----> Marius -----> Augustus
Polybian coming into being during the Phyrric Wars, Scipio's Army during the later half of the 2nd Punic War, and the other two are already probably known.

**Reverend Joe** · 09-02-2006, 04:15

Originally Posted by Olaf_The_Great

I agree and their shield isn't big its actually the smaller Clipeus/aspis shield not a A Hoplon, which is supported by the Iphri/Late Hoplites, but since they are in the traditional phalanx they should be more like Eki's(ekadromoi) and Hypas/Bak-Agema.

I thought the Hoplon was the Aspis...

**JeffBag** · 09-02-2006, 05:03

Originally Posted by Zorba

I thought the Hoplon was the Aspis...

Actually, I thought that "hoplon" is now defined as "arms" rather than the "shield".

**khelvan** · 09-02-2006, 07:17

Our evidence for the Camillan equipment comes from a variety of sources, including Dionysius of Halicarnassus, and Livy. The evolution of the Roman system did not happen overnight, and around 300 BC the first rank of what was not so long ago the Etruscan-Roman army is still fighting in hoplite gear.

**cunctator** · 09-02-2006, 09:39

Originally Posted by Zastrow

I've also wondered about this, shouldn't the Polybian legions be around by the start of the Game? I don't think the Triarii were fighting at Phalanxes during the Punic Wars.

Maybe I'm just confused but I thought the Roman army progression was.

Camillian ---> Polybian ----> Scipio -----> Marius -----> Augustus
Polybian coming into being during the Phyrric Wars, Scipio's Army during the later half of the 2nd Punic War, and the other two are already probably known.

Polybius described the roman army of his present, the first half of the second century BC. So the scipionic army in your list is actually the polybian army.

**JeffBag** · 09-02-2006, 13:56

Originally Posted by khelvan

Our evidence for the Camillan equipment comes from a variety of sources, including Dionysius of Halicarnassus, and Livy. The evolution of the Roman system did not happen overnight, and around 300 BC the first rank of what was not so long ago the Etruscan-Roman army is still fighting in hoplite gear.

Yes, and that is precisely what this thread is about: how those hoplites had used their spears, overarm in the classical manner, or underarm in the more Iphkritean(sp?) manner. In all the osprey pictures I've seen, the Etruscan-Roman hoplites don't seem to be carrying very long spears, but osprey pictures do have a reputation of wrongly depicting certain things.