Poland 1939

[KrooK]

- The part of Poland, that the SU occupied, was originally part of Belarus, which was occupied by the Poland illegally. The SU occupied it to protect the Russian population.

Tell me who teached you history - Uncle Molotov?
First of all - these territories can't be described as one big eastern part of Poland - rather as 2 of them - Grodzienszczyzna (north) and Lwowszczyzna (south).
It has never been part of Belarus because at the beginning of XX centrury there simply were not nation that could be called Belarussians - it's probably youngest nation of the Europe. They formed themselves as a nation in the middle of XX century and even now they are forming it. That territory has not been occupied illegaly - IT WAS PART OF POLISH COUNTRY SINCE 1385. PEOPLE LIVING THERE WERE MOSTLY POLES and they want be citizens of Poland, not Soviet Union. I can only tell that if we would look from your point of view then Schleswig-Holstein or Lorraine were always part of Germany and France and Denmark illegally occupied that territories.

People who were living there were mostly Poles (even now there is about 300.000 Poles into Belarus), Jews or people who didn't feel that they are any nation - they were called tutejsi. There were hardly any Russians - i don't think more than 10%. Furthermore these territories were parts of Great Princedom of Lithuania which was part of polish-lithuanian country - Republic of Both Nations, shortly Kingdom of Poland. In 1772 and 1793 Russians conquered these territories.
Poles reconquered these territory into 1920 after battles od Warsaw and of Niemen. Before Treaty of Riga SU proposed Poland rest of something you call Belarus. Poles refused because into todays Eastern Belarus Poles were minority. So don't tell that they cared about people living there.

Situation at southern territory - Lwowszczyzna was more complicated. There were very big Ukrainian minority. Poles had to fight with Ukrainians to gain this territory but Lwow was polish city that time. Furthermore there was clean that only war can decide who will gain that territory - there were simply absolutely no etnical border. But one is absolutely sure - there were hardly any Russians too. In the end I would like to ask about that "protection" - maybe similar to hunger at eastern Ukraine?

- The occupation of the Baltic States was similar to Churchill's plans to occupy Norway; a justify mean to contain German agression

Germans did not want occupy these territories. Lithuania was quiet ally of Germany into 30ties. Soviet Union simply wanted gain as much territory as he could.



At the end I have some questions to you.
Who teached you history and from which books?
Have you read any SERIOUS book (not tabloid history courses) about Polish - Russians relation - not only 1918-1920 but maybe 1700 - 1939?
Have you ever read anything about Belarussian nation?


Something you call Belarus was part of polish-lithuanian country. People living there were citizens of that country and they did not like Russia and did not want be Russians.

[Franconicus]

Tell me who teached you history - Uncle Molotov?

As I wrote I have these statements from a book of Valentin Falin. He was security advisor of Gorbadschow, so I think his view is the official Soviet view. I learned some history in school, but to be honest, the time at the end of WW1 until let's say 1930 was fucused on internal history. It is very hard to get information about what was going on in Poland then.

What Falin wrote was in most points different to what I had learned at school. Therefore, I was wondering if everything I have learned is right. I guess every nation has his own interpretation of history. That is the reason why I placed these statements in this discussion.

Thanks for your information!

Germans did not want occupy these territories. Lithuania was quiet ally of Germany into 30ties. Soviet Union simply wanted gain as much territory as he could.

That is exactly what I learned at school. Falin, however, says that Hitler intented to occupy the Baltic States in case the SU would enter the war.
By the way, Churchill did not want to occupy Norway because the Germans wanted. He wrote that the violation of the Norway neutrality was justified by the fight against the evil Nazis. Falin says that the Russians claimed the same for the Baltics.

At the end I have some questions to you.
Who teached you history and from which books?
Have you read any SERIOUS book (not tabloid history courses) about Polish - Russians relation - not only 1918-1920 but maybe 1700 - 1939?
Have you ever read anything about Belarussian nation?

No, in our history courses Poland plays a minor role and Belarus none. There are not many books about this topic and most of those are, let's say, a bit revanchist. I did not read them.
I'd like to learn more about that part of history and so I decided to contact my friends in the org.