Hetairoi in Greek

**L'Impresario** · 09-16-2006, 18:19

The hellenistic koine period dates from 323BC, with the dead of Alexander, and you already have importants works in the language that early, in the 3rd cent. BC for example, one can find the Old Testament translation by hellenised Jews, which shows various interesting influences that had become prominent by then. Even from the late 4th cent. BC there are countless letters and documents among the Egyptian scrolls found written in Koine.

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 09-16-2006, 19:03

Actually read up on when those changes start taking place instead of trying to pretend like since Alexander dies, that means the Hellenistic period beings, and thus koine (which becomes more common in that period) would start in 323. To put it even more simply: in 272 kings and generals aren't speaking New Testament koine.

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edit: One of the big changes in koine is in the pronunciation of phi, theta, and chi. Here is a clear description of when that change occurs:

From Vox Graeca: A Guide to the Pronunciation of Classical Greek by W. Sidney Allen 1974 Cambridge.
The evidence thus seems conclusive that in 5 c. Attic φ, θ, χ represented plosives (as π, τ, κ) and NOT fricatives (as ς, or as φ, θ, χ in modern Greek). The continuation of the plosive pronunciation into a later period is shown by the fact that Latin renders Greek φ at first as a simple p, later as ph (e.g. Pilipus, Philippus), but never in classical Latin times as f, which would have been appropriate for a fricative pronunciation… However, there is no doubt that, as modern Greek shows, the aspirated plosives did eventually change to fricatives. Evidence is sometimes quoted which would suggest that the beginnings of such a change could be traced to the 2 c. B.C…. With one problematic exception the first clear evidence for a fricative pronunciation comes from the 1 c. A.D. in Pompeian spellings such as Dafne (= Δάφνη)… From the 2 c. A.D. the representation of φ by Latin f becomes common, and Latin grammarians have to give rules when to spell with f and when with ph… It may be that a scholarly pronunciation of φ, θ, χ as plosives continued for some time in the schools… There is even possibly some evidence that the plosive pronunciation continued in the schools up to the time when the Glagolitic alphabet was formed in the 9 c. for the writing of Old Church Slavonic.

Hardly appropriate for this mod.

**L'Impresario** · 09-16-2006, 19:25

Actually read up on when those changes start taking place instead of trying to pretend like since Alexander dies, that means the Hellenistic period beings, and thus koine (which becomes more common in that period) would start in 323. To put it even more simply: in 272 kings and generals aren't speaking New Testament koine.

I don't think I'm referring to such an interpretation...It's an easy thing to say though - I'm merely stating facts, not mentioned even fleetingly the New Testament heh
Ofcourse not all changes happened spontaneously, languages aren't made by decree. I don't know why you should have φ, θ, χ instead of τh, πh, κh. But sticking to the Attic dialect can't be characterised accurate as well.

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 09-16-2006, 20:03

If someone has any specific changes that had occurred by 272, please let us know.

Also, none of it probably matters anyway, as no one with the patience and equipment to record all of them and the ability to act the voice out well for the files has volunteered as far as I know.

**O'ETAIPOS** · 09-17-2006, 17:14

And BDW wasnt Attic dialect official one on Macedon court(during Philip and Alexander regin)?

**Laundreu** · 09-17-2006, 23:10

Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

If someone has any specific changes that had occurred by 272, please let us know.

Also, none of it probably matters anyway, as no one with the patience and equipment to record all of them and the ability to act the voice out well for the files has volunteered as far as I know.

What equipment is needed? I'm starting up learning Attic Greek in college, perhaps I can give a go or summat.

My accent would be terrible, mind.

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 09-17-2006, 23:39

Shigawire would be very happy if you happened to be a non-English native speaker then. It would be much more difficult if you are, but not impossible. It would probably be best to mention what your native language is first.

**Laundreu** · 09-18-2006, 05:32

Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

Shigawire would be very happy if you happened to be a non-English native speaker then. It would be much more difficult if you are, but not impossible. It would probably be best to mention what your native language is first.

Ah; I'm a native English speaker. Well, native American English speaker.

**abou** · 10-30-2006, 05:53

Originally Posted by paullus

...especially since there are reliefs of hetairoi from alexander's time! say, on the alexander sarcophagus, you get rather nice-looking, detailed, and contemporary shots of Alexander and his cavalry.

Not to bring this thread back from the dead, but is this the specific relief you mentioned? Are there others that are better and if so how do I get access to them? Finally, what about representations of Hetairoi in later times (such as the EB ones and the illustration in John Warry's book)?