XL/Tyberius Halberdiers are king

[Roark]

OK, so maybe this is a slightly negative aspect of the mod(s), but there is no reason that one NEEDS to use any other type of footslogger infantry in XL/Tyberius...

Halberdiers
- they are no longer slow
- they have a mindbuggering amount of armour (and therefore don't need a shield)
- they have the best defence in the game ('cept maybe for Swiss Armoured Pikes, which pretty much can't be trained until late LATE era, and that's if you're parked somewhere near Switzerland)
- they get a bonus vs cavalry
- they get a bonus vs armour

Spear are now truly redundant in High and Late. The only thing Halbs still lack is morale, but I think they can now safely be elevated to beyond peasant status Anyway, just thought I'd share...

Captain Obvious signing off.

[bondovic]

Haven't they always had exaggerated armour and defence? I don't remember TAOs stats, but they ought to be slow and have no other purposes, other than strictly auxiliary ones, than to watch the flanks of your spear wall against HC.

[Fagar]

Indeed the halbs are very powerful, and the morale problem is redundant if they are commanded by an excellent general.
In a lot of ways you are right you simply do not need any other infantry.
A few bows, your heavy horse and then fill the stack with Halbs.
Problem here is it gets boring so I employ a bit of a house rule and only have a max of 2-3 units per army.
Then again I do the same for all elite troops from all factions just in the name of honour and fair play and to add just an extra touch of reality and balance to the campaign.

[caravel]

I can't really comment having never played the mod and I haven't played XL for years, but those do sound very overpowered. It can be surprisingly difficult to balance unit stats though.

[Fagar]

Absolutely.

I have no criticism of of the mod or of people that do these mods at all.
I think they are brilliant and add a whole new dimension to an already superb game.
I imagine the balance would be very difficult and is certainly beyond me.

In history Halbs/polearms were a deadly unit and evolved out of the need to combat the effectivness of heavy horse.
They certainly decimated more than one Cav heavy army and changed the tide of battles, changed the way battles were fought in many respects.

So I agree that in game terms they need to be reasonably powerful the rest is up to the player.

If they want, stack an army full of them or be a little more historically accurate and have only a few in the army and as bondovic said have them on the flanks of the spear to deter Heavy Cav like they were designed and employed.

[caravel]

I never really rated halbs in vanilla MTW anyway. They would have been better in smaller units with a bit more morale. This would make then only useful as flankers. Though not like Chivalric Foot Knights as I found those just a little overpowered, even in 20 man units.

[seireikhaan]

Quite right, Roark. One reason to always try to make sure to have gnome editor on hand. I personally "re-slow" them back to their old speed, as well as taking off a single point of defense, so as to make them slightly less studly in melee. This tends to make them still powerful, but a slight hindrance in skirmishes, as well as now much more vulnerable to being shot to pieces by crossbows/arbalesters/recurved bows, where they had previously been more productive, due to taking longer to traverse.

[Roark]

I never really rated halbs in vanilla MTW anyway.

Ditto, man. My preference for Turkish-style fast and furious combat just didn't allow them a place in my armies. Same with Pavises, to be honest.

Quite right, Roark. One reason to always try to make sure to have gnome editor on hand. I personally "re-slow" them back to their old speed, as well as taking off a single point of defense, so as to make them slightly less studly in melee. This tends to make them still powerful, but a slight hindrance in skirmishes, as well as now much more vulnerable to being shot to pieces by crossbows/arbalesters/recurved bows, where they had previously been more productive, due to taking longer to traverse.

Sounds like a plan. I think I'll do the same. They really need to perform like peasant-stream troops (even if they are at the very top of that particular evolutionary ladder).

[Roark]

I have no criticism of of the mod or of people that do these mods at all.
I think they are brilliant and add a whole new dimension to an already superb game.
I imagine the balance would be very difficult and is certainly beyond me.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still in awe of the quality of the finished product.

Tyberius and VikingHorde have collectively delivered the overall best mod for MTW, in my humble experience. Mind you, there's plenty of mods that I haven't played yet.

My all-time greatest hope is for a Viking era mod which contains the best possible balance of being historically accurate AND having good mechanics in terms of respective faction strengths.