Horse Archer Armies...(long text)

**Empirate** · 09-21-2006, 15:04

With the Turks in early, you're sitting between a gold bar and a hard place. There's absolutely no question the Egyptians have to go first. What those six turns or however long it takes you provide you with is much too good not to have against the Byzzies: A one province border in the south (Egypt), tons of money from plunder and sultan ransoms (around 20.000 fl usually, sometimes more), and a lot of provinces that help you in the war effort. Meanwhile, what do the Byzzies get? Some steppe provinces and relocation of some good fighting troops to a far land, from where it'll take them some turns to get back to the action in Asia Minor.
Besides, I'd not wanna take on Katanks and Byz Inf and Trebs with vanilla HA. Give me Turcomans, preferably with Mosque and Ribat to counter their low morale, and I'm set!

**bamff** · 09-25-2006, 02:23

Originally Posted by rvg

3) The presence of Archers will *not* counter this strategy. The presence of Heavy Cavalry will *not* counter this strategy. In Early, the only units that will reliably counter Massed HAs are the massed top speed light cav (i.e. Saharans, Steppes, Alans) or the Massed *Heavy* Horse Archers (like Steppe Heavies). Once Pavise units make an appearance in High, the viability of HAs takes a nosedive, but nonetheless, in Early they are VERY hard to beat.

Sorry to go all the way back to the first post, but one point worth noting here - if your HA's can manage to get close enough to charge the pavise units (and assuming that tougher help is not close enough to hand) you should be able to cut them to ribbons. I have had some success with both Turcopoles and Mounted Xbows. True you can't get involved in a shootout unless you want to see your guys get shot up, but the charge works wonders. Worth remembering that when you have a "softer" target in sight, your HA's can be used as light cavalry (giving them a second string to their bows if you like....sorry that was bad....).

**rvg** · 09-25-2006, 21:04

Originally Posted by bamff

Sorry to go all the way back to the first post, but one point worth noting here - if your HA's can manage to get close enough to charge the pavise units (and assuming that tougher help is not close enough to hand) you should be able to cut them to ribbons. I have had some success with both Turcopoles and Mounted Xbows. True you can't get involved in a shootout unless you want to see your guys get shot up, but the charge works wonders. Worth remembering that when you have a "softer" target in sight, your HA's can be used as light cavalry (giving them a second string to their bows if you like....sorry that was bad....).

Of course, if charging is an option, that is a great way of getting rid of the Pavise units, but the A.I. is usually smart enough to keep its pavise units well protected.

**gaijinalways** · 09-26-2006, 05:14

The pavise units have a problem as the shields that keep them from being killed by missile fire; the same slow them down when they attempt to retreat. I have beeen surprised by regular ab unts that ripped cav units to shreds and routed them (while my own ab troops barely hang on until reinforcements come, maybe secret AI training camps?).

**bamff** · 09-26-2006, 06:54

Originally Posted by rvg

Of course, if charging is an option, that is a great way of getting rid of the Pavise units, but the A.I. is usually smart enough to keep its pavise units well protected.

Once on the field, yes....BUT the AI hits a problem when these units come on as reinforcements. If you can get a unit or two of HA's positioned in cover near the AI's supply route, you will have no end of targets presented on a platter. Even if several AI reinforcements enter the field together, the pavise units move quite slowly, and so will soon be left a ways behind any companion units. Time to charge boys! By the time the AI reacts, your HA's should be scooting either back to cover or away to safety.

Charges are also great against AI artillery units, once you have lured all of the other units well away.

**Deus ret.** · 09-29-2006, 11:52

Originally Posted by bamff

Charges are also great against AI artillery units, once you have lured all of the other units well away.

yes, but especially in defense battles I prefer to let them live as long as possible - their range won't threaten my position most of the times and since the AI tends to deploy quite a number of them in their starting line-up, they facilitate many battles considerably simply because the enemy won't have as much to throw at you as if he left the artillery out. the same counts for incoming reinforcements where again their number is restricted by remaining artillery units. the only downside to this is that battles last somewhat longer, but hey, if it helps to overcome that 1:5 disadvantage

....

**gaijinalways** · 09-29-2006, 15:55

I agree if I am on the defensive, I leave the siege engines sucking up air, but on the offensive, it depends on where the AI siege engines are. If they are set up for a killing filed, I have to bring my cav up and risk them gettting attacked if they can take the siege engines down

**Deus ret.** · 10-02-2006, 01:36

Originally Posted by gaijinalways

If they are set up for a killing filed, I have to bring my cav up and risk them gettting attacked if they can take the siege engines down

yep, even more so since AI artillery units display a terrible proneness to hit your general. I don't know how it's done but if I deploy siege equipment, most of the times I'm happy if they manage to inflict at least some damage, whereas my general seems to magically attract enemy missiles. Probably I don't employ him correctly, but openly attacking siege equipment often remains a risky task for me.

**Peasant Phill** · 10-02-2006, 09:36

It's a known that generals have a higher chance of being hit by siege engines than other units. It works on both sides. It is however considered a cheesy tactic to use in combat.

**Empirate** · 10-02-2006, 11:38

AI controlled siege engines have been a pain in my behind whenever I've happened to deploy my forces in range of them. Almost every shot hits at least something, whereas my own siege equipment can be said to follow the reverse statement...
But I never lost a general to siege engine fire, not once in playing M:TW extensively for years. I managed to kill the odd AI general with a large rock from time to time, though. Just yesterday, it happened again in my Aragonese campaign, killed a five-star Italian prince defending against my two-star captain with a zero-valor Catapult.