EB and RTR compatability

[Macilrille]

Greetings all.

I am sorry to ask something that must have been answered somewhere else, but I cannot seem to find the actual answer. I thus have to ask it, how is EB compatible with RTR? I like the sound of EB, but I have just started using RTR (being a historian), and quite like it and would prefer to keep it.

Thanks.

Best wishes; Palle

[econ21]

No, they are not compatible. Your best bet is to have separate installs of them. Either use a mod-swapper, or simply make copies of your original RTW folder and install mods on the copies.

[eadingas]

Like with pretty much all full conversion mods, you'll need a separate installation.

We'll have a -mod switch in next build, though.

[Macilrille]

Thanks for the swift reply. Sad though, have you considered making them compatible instead of a -switch?

Best wishes; Palle

www.ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk

[eadingas]

Impossible. Two completely different mods. Just because they're both set in ancient Eurasia doesn't mean they have anything in common :)

[Macilrille]

Well i know little of modding except for BG and BG II, but since they run on the same basic game engine (RTW), is it not "just" a question of a LOT of work?


Best wishes; Palle


www.ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk

[econ21]

Macilrille, what both RTR and EB do is change the map, alter the unit graphics and stats, change the factions, alter the traits and use scripts etc. All the changes are so wide-ranging, they are mutually exclusive[1]. You can get mini-mods for RTR (I really like the 4TPY one, Metro-Naval etc.). But there ain't anything mini about EB, there really isn't.

I dissent slightly from Eadingas, however, in that I think EB and RTR have an enormous amount in common. Not the specific modifications, but rather the general vision and specific aims of the mods. I can switch between them and it does not feel like a "culture-shock"; it's almost like I am playing the same mod. By contrast, when I load up vanilla RTW, I have to put on the sunglasses, keep my hand hovering over the pause button etc.

[1]You'd have to decide - which faction list do you want? EB or RTRs? Which map? Which unit roster and stats? Which unit skins? Which building lists? Which victory conditons? Which traits? etc etc. Plus the modifications are so interdependent, you'd probably spend an eternity fiddling with it.

[eadingas]

Econ: I meant engine-wise :)

[fallen851]

By contrast, when I load up vanilla RTW, I have to put on the sunglasses...

Why the sunglasses? Does EB and RTR edit the sky, like Archer's sky mod?

Though I don't understand why you think that RTW's three families approach to Roman politics is more suitable than RTR's (and also EB's) approach.

My favorite part of vanilla was the civil war, but since it is Roman limited, I only played as the Roman factions, and look forward to playing as others in EB. It is too bad EB couldn't make it so any large empire could splinter between powerful "family" members, though I'm not exactly sure how this would work out completely...

[Obelics]

Greetings all.

I am sorry to ask something that must have been answered somewhere else, but I cannot seem to find the actual answer. I thus have to ask it, how is EB compatible with RTR? I like the sound of EB, but I have just started using RTR (being a historian), and quite like it and would prefer to keep it.

Thanks.

Best wishes; Palle

Well, if you are an historian i think EB is the mod for you, it is still "open" if you pass me the term, and if you are good with english, you can contribute with some description, or with some name buildings, just dont have some prejudice because it dont have the word "Realism" in its title, EB is the most Realistic mod out there, so it is worthy to have its own istallation space in the HD, and believe me im not a fanatic (ive a lot of mods installed on my HD), so i speack for experience, and other mods are ages far away from the EB "realism"... you can even have it installed (without playing) just as an off-line wikipedia of the ancient world...

PS (this is not intended to you Palle, but is a general consideration of mine)
I think that a lot of people dont know EB is "The" realistic mod cause the title doesn't contain the word "realism", i just wonder what people could think if they put a subtitle that refers to "realism" or somthink like that...
I have not a fantasy for titles..."EB - the better approximation to the ancient Era, that is possible in a RTW engine"? naaah it sound too much technical...

[Macilrille]

He he he, well in any search you do you find RTR described as THE realistic mod, perhaps it is older. I quite like it, though it loses the internal struggle between the great men of Rome that RTW sort of tries to touch...

I am a historian indeed, Ma in History and political science (unemployed, Denmark does not need me right now, so should you have a job, let me know;-) ). Speciality is military history, viking-medieval history and Roman history. I am also a viking reenactor, doing martial arts with copies of viking weapons.

In any case, after I tried to install "The First Triumvirate" (which I would dearly like to try), the game crashes, unable to find the skeleton for a spearman. I think you guys have "sold" the EB mod well enough that I will de a reinstall and try that for comparison, I am home from a course ill anyway.


BTW, there should be a leadernamed Gaius Marius for a while before his reforms.


And if EB needs a historian, they can drop me a line on Macilrille@gmail.com (I just love gmail's spamfilter or I would not post it publicly:-)).

Best wishes, Palle, Carpenter, historian and viking line commander.

[Foot]

BTW, there should be a leadernamed Gaius Marius for a while before his reforms.

People are really obsessed with Marius as the be all and end all of Roman reforms. EB will not (regardless that it is impossible) be including a Marius character, our dynamic reforms are based on the economic, military, social reasons for the reforms; coupled with a suitable candidate who has the influence and know-how to institute such reforms.

Other than that, sit back and enjoy EB, Macilrille. You will find it very stimulating. Though I don't understand why you think that RTW's three families approach to Roman politics is more suitable than RTR's (and also EB's) approach.

Foot

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Take a look at the EB website too. www.europabarbarorum.com

You'll probably enjoy some of the faction histories we have, as well as the general faction descriptions and the unit descriptions we have up too (not all are on there).

edit: bah! you're faster on the draw than me you blasted Norwayer!

[Krusader]

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/

Take a look at our website and see around if the pages there can help you decide or cause any impressions.

And btw, the goal of EB is not to recreate history exact. There will be no Gaius Marius, but there will be Marian reforms. There will be no Hannibal suddenly appearing.

[Macilrille]

History is complicated and Marius is a suitable figurehead/catalyst for reforms that had been going on since the Punic Wars and only ended later.

What I miss is not the RTW approach but something simulating the struggles for power in Rome itself between the magnates. Much of Rome's expansion in the late republic was in fact due to these military magnates and Rome was farfrom a unified power internally though to the rest of the world it looked as such. RTW sort of simulates that in a primitive way that RTR at least does not, and I miss something that simulates the cutthroat Roman power politics. Perhaps I roleplay too much;-)


Best wishes; Palle

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Take a look at the traits in EB. They are more complex by far than any other mod for RTW. Everything is more complex If you like to roleplay with your generals, there is no better mod to do it with than EB.

[MSB]

I am sorry to ask something that must have been answered somewhere else, but I cannot seem to find the actual answer. I thus have to ask it, how is EB compatible with RTR? I like the sound of EB, but I have just started using RTR (being a historian), and quite like it and would prefer to keep it.

Nobody, completly nobody who is a historian plays RTR. In someways it more hstorically inaccurate than vanillia RTW. For example RTR has All of the separate Greek Cities in the Eastern Med Unified under one banner (that includes Epirus!). Also the Germanic Tribes and the Gauls are unified like they never were. Also it has a very boring vannila style traits system, no goverments system, no nice new buildings for any factions, no reforms for non-Romans, Carthaginians who control land which they would not have controled and land that they would control is owned by somebody, a smaller and more boring map than EB and finally the Marius reforms happen dynamically at the same time as vannila.

Basically RTR is vannila with a AoR, a few new units and skins, two new factions, Baktria and Illyicra (losing two factions at the SAME TIME, Dacia and Britain), a couple of faction changes and a slightly larger map. Really you might as well play vannila!

[iberus_generalis]

rtr is not all that bad..sure it's not as good as EB, rtr has plenty of mini mods, that improve RTR, adding lots of new features that are not present in EB...

[Antagonist]

I like RTR as well, polished and fun, but EB is the master of historical accuracy IMO. RTR is pretty good for the Mediterranean factions but their portrayal of Northern Europe and the East is distinctly lacking in comparison to EB I feel, though in fairness it looks like they're trying to catch up in the next version.

Still, just because you can't use both with one RTW directory doesn't mean that they're mutually exclusive. The only thing stopping anyone from playing both is hard-drive space.

Antagonist

[CountArach]

Nobody, completly nobody who is a historian plays RTR. In someways it more hstorically inaccurate than vanillia RTW. For example RTR has All of the separate Greek Cities in the Eastern Med Unified under one banner (that includes Epirus!). Also the Germanic Tribes and the Gauls are unified like they never were. Also it has a very boring vannila style traits system, no goverments system, no nice new buildings for any factions, no reforms for non-Romans, Carthaginians who control land which they would not have controled and land that they would control is owned by somebody, a smaller and more boring map than EB and finally the Marius reforms happen dynamically at the same time as vannila.

Basically RTR is vannila with a AoR, a few new units and skins, two new factions, Baktria and Illyicra (losing two factions at the SAME TIME, Dacia and Britain), a couple of faction changes and a slightly larger map. Really you might as well play vannila!

Now that is pretty harsh.

How is it more inaccurate than Vanilla? How could ANYTHING be more inaccurate than Vanilla?

Remember that RTR 6.0 was made before EB. This is in a time before Scripting was the big thing that could make or break a mod.

Unified Greeks/Gauls/Germans. Okay this is fair enough, it is just one of the hang-overs from Vanilla. It will be rectified in 7.0 AFAIK.

They have an AoR... this is pretty mucht eh equivalent of the Government system. Not anywhere near as good or detailed as EBs, but it serves the purpose.

A FEW new units and skins? What? They reskinned everything, and some of the skins are FAR better than EBs (No offence anyone here). For example their Hastati/Principes/Triarii skins are FAR better than EB's IMO.

The map, while being smaller, is actually better in some ways. They have a better Italy, a better Greece, a better Syria and a better Asia Minor. However, this all comes at teh cost of size.

Personally I love both mods, but the Script is what attracts me to EB.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

ome of the skins are FAR better than EBs (No offence anyone here).

Anyone see the winning entry in the TWC RTW skinning contest this last quarter?

[Zastrow]

RTR is about fireworks, eye candy and flashy graphics.

To have an awesomely bad metaphor explain it all, RTR is a crappy beat up car (vanilla) with flames and rims on it. EB is the crappy beat up car without all the flames and rims, but a giant muscle engine in it. It can really go, while RTR is really entertaining. . . for awhile, till it sputters out and dies and you have to call Triple A.

Okay, maybe I took the metaphor too far, but in general I enjoyed RTR alot till I played awhile in campaign, then EB came out and although the skins are less, "omg purty colors" and stuff, its far more appealing to me as a history guy and a strategy gamer.

[Darkarbiter]

RTR is about fireworks, eye candy and flashy graphics.

To have an awesomely bad metaphor explain it all, RTR is a crappy beat up car (vanilla) with flames and rims on it. EB is the crappy beat up car without all the flames and rims, but a giant muscle engine in it. It can really go, while RTR is really entertaining. . . for awhile, till it sputters out and dies and you have to call Triple A.

Okay, maybe I took the metaphor too far, but in general I enjoyed RTR alot till I played awhile in campaign, then EB came out and although the skins are less, "omg purty colors" and stuff, its far more appealing to me as a history guy and a strategy gamer.

EB also has an engine that breaks down all the time... And sorry but RTR isnt all just looks. Try playing EB or RTR in multiplayer and take a guess which one has totally stuffed up unit selection and prices and lots of elite units. While RTR has a multiplayer community that changes tactics every 2 months e.g. everyone thinking cavlry pwned until aliordan and kinghan showed us otherwise so everyone changed tactics again. Also isnt RTW and mods just a game what else is there besides graphics and sounds concidering u just said RTR is better at graphics (and they also have their own music pack ALLREADY relesead) u just proved that RTR is better then EB so concider wording things better next time.
Also earlier in the thread people were talking about lack of conflict between families being unhistorical. In RTR 7.0 it will be fixed. So next time you make judgements of something stop looking through such a narrow veiwing range. EB has better scripts but thats about it. Simple fact is RTR is way more balanced and it dosent have l33t units so id like to see EB ever attract a bigger MP community then RTR. Also i know of one member in particuler who only turned away from RTR because I beat him in MP and decided to bugger of to EB so just because u hate RTR for one reason or another doesnt meen have to troll about it here. As far as I can tell this community is very quick to point out the problems with other mods and is quick to defend their own mod with things such as "were a beta" etc. RTR is just technologically ahead and will remain that way im sure in 7.0 you will find more and more realistic scripts then in 0.8 anyway (eg celts in macedon).
And on a final note lets talk about realism
things unhistorical in RTR
Greek cities unified
Germany unified
Gaul unified
No revolts for romans
Macedon controlled by macedonians
All fixed in 7.0
Eb unhistorical stuff
An AI with only 1 city can build stacks and stacks of armies
No revolts for romans
Macedon controlled by macedonians
Impossible to build elite units early game even though they were present
Trarii as phalanx pikemen (debateable)
Overpowered units that are impossible to kill
From what it looks like none of these are going to be fixed in 0.8 if anyone would like to add to this list go ahead.

[CountArach]

Anyone see the winning entry in the TWC RTW skinning contest this last quarter?

Ture, but like I said... SOME of the skins are better.

To have an awesomely bad metaphor explain it all, RTR is a crappy beat up car (vanilla) with flames and rims on it. EB is the crappy beat up car without all the flames and rims, but a giant muscle engine in it. It can really go, while RTR is really entertaining. . . for awhile, till it sputters out and dies and you have to call Triple A.

Now THAT is brilliant!

[MSB]

Nobody, completly nobody who is a historian plays RTR. In someways it more hstorically inaccurate than vanillia RTW. For example RTR has all of the separate Greek Cities in the Eastern Med Unified under one banner (that includes Epirus!). Also the Germanic Tribes and the Gauls are unified too they never were historically. Also it has a very boring vannila style traits system, no goverments system, no nice new buildings for any factions, no reforms for non-Romans, Carthaginians who control land which they would not have controled and land that they would control is owned by somebody, a smaller and more boring map than EB and finally the Marius reforms happen dynamically at the same time as vannila.

Basically RTR is vannila with a AoR, a few new units and skins, two new factions, Baktria and Illyicra (losing two factions at the SAME TIME, Dacia and Britain), a couple of faction changes and a slightly larger map. Really you might as well play vannila!

Now that is pretty harsh.

How is it more inaccurate than Vanilla? How could ANYTHING be more inaccurate than Vanilla?

Remember that RTR 6.0 was made before EB. This is in a time before Scripting was the big thing that could make or break a mod.

Unified Greeks/Gauls/Germans. Okay this is fair enough, it is just one of the hang-overs from Vanilla. It will be rectified in 7.0 AFAIK.

They have an AoR... this is pretty mucht eh equivalent of the Government system. Not anywhere near as good or detailed as EBs, but it serves the purpose.

A FEW new units and skins? What? They reskinned everything, and some of the skins are FAR better than EBs (No offence anyone here). For example their Hastati/Principes/Triarii skins are FAR better than EB's IMO.

The map, while being smaller, is actually better in some ways. They have a better Italy, a better Greece, a better Syria and a better Asia Minor. However, this all comes at teh cost of size.

Personally I love both mods, but the Script is what attracts me to EB.

Can we get a lock on this? This is the worst possible place to ask the question and Matthius doesn't exactly come out as forum member that seeks good discussion or respects opinions, if you know what I'm saying.

I am very sorry if I came across as slightly erm, one sided and abrupt about EB being way better than RTR and perhaps slightly ignorant and perhaps even stupid, but it is just my opinion. I feel very strong when mods claim to be historically perfect and actually are not and yes maybe I was very harsh. I apologize for that issue if anybody found that offensive.

Oh and responding to Musopticon? who says that I do not "seek good discussion and respect opinions," I do! Just look at the suggestions for EB 0.8 thread. I have said many a time how much I like other people's opinions and ideas and have respected them (and also added a few more good contributions at the same time). I apologize again.
Matthius Julius

[Musopticon?]

Hmm, well. To each his own, to every man his deed.

RTR never claimed to be historically perfect, if someone tells you that, tell them straight out it's a lie. 6.3 is anything but finished, it's more like a skinning job with a new map and AOR. Just wait till 7.0.