U.S. Senate Does Something Right!!!! I can hardly believe it!!!

[Divinus Arma]

Congress passes Mexico border fence bill
WASHINGTON, Sept. 30 (UPI) -- Congress has ordered construction of 700 miles of fence along the U.S.-Mexican border in a move Mexico says will hurt relations between the two countries.

The Senate voted 80-19, with 26 Democrats joining 54 Republicans in support, Friday night before recessing for the fall political campaigns.

President Bush has said he would sign it.

Critics claim the $1.2 billion fence would do little to address the underlying economic, social and law enforcement problems, or to prevent others from slipping across the border, The Washington Post reported.

A United Press International analysis said the fence's success would be determined by improved economic growth in Mexico and crackdowns on U.S. employment of illegal immigrants.

Mexico's Foreign Relations Department called the fence "a political answer rather than a viable solution."

Mexican President Vicente Fox called it "shameful" and compared it to the Berlin Wall, which divided Germany.

http://upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?St...0-094856-7817r

This is a terrific start. Hopefully this will generate some momentum. U.S. Citizens of the Org: If you support this bill, PLEASE contact your Congressional and Senate Leaders and commend them or chastize them for their role in this first great step...


HR6061

Bill Information: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR6061:

Senate Votes: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00260

House Votes: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll446.xml

[rotorgun]

All behind it DA! I'll get right on it as soon as I am done with my Sunday School Lesson. At last, some action by the do nothing boys and girls in Washington DC.
Praise be!

Congratulations,

[Proletariat]

This seems so silly... Can't believe we're actually doing this crap. We jumped bigger fences in highschool with razor wire to avoid paying 2$ or whatever for a ticket.

The only answer to our immigration problem is back breaking fines for the employers who allow this to go on. Until we get something like that, all this fence stuff is a joke, imo.

[Divinus Arma]

This is a start proletariat. A start. I agree that reducing incentives for illegal immigration is the mainstay of a real immigration solution, but this is a good beginning. We must press our legislative leaders and tell them that we support their action. This was a water test only.

[Lemur]

The only answer to our immigration problem is back breaking fines for the employers who allow this to go on. Until we get something like that, all this fence stuff is a joke, imo.

Amen, and can I get a hallelujah?

All of our attempts to cut of supply are meaningless until we're willing to do something serious about demand. End of story.

[Major Robert Dump]

Wait a minute. I was expecting something akin to the great wall of china, with a deep foundation that can't be dug under. Please don't tell me this is going to be like the fence at a priosn. Thats nothing.

It also needs electricity running through it. And the best yet, would be to use illegal immigrants to build it, then tell them we lost their paychecks right before we deport them. That would be payback for all the taxes they never paid.

[Navaros]

That is not doing something right, that is just a waste of taxpayers' money.

How hard is it to round up illegal aliens and deport them? Not very.

If they really wanted to stop the illegal alien problem then they could deport them all rather than waste $1.2 billion of taxpayers' money.

[Divinus Arma]

Here is my blanket letter to relevant congressional leaders:

Dear *elected official*,

I commend you for your recent action voting in favor of HR 6061. Illegal immigration is a national disgrace: we exploit the impoverished citizens of a neighboring country while turning away the millions more who seek our aid from abroad. The United States must have an immigration policy that is fair to the people of the entire world. After all, America is known for welcoming immigrants and this can only be continued by offering equal opportunity to the citizens of all nations.

Please support legislation that reduces incentives for unlawful entry, residence, and employment. Meanwhile, expand opportunities for immigration and citizenshipo from ALL nations- and not just Mexico. Only then can we have the multicultural melting pot that has made the United States the leader of the free world.

Very Respectfully,

*author*


Feel free to use, modify, etc as you see fit if you plan on aiding this email campaign.

[whyidie]

Way to avoid the issue with a $1.2 billion cosmetic "fix". Lipstick on a pig.

[Scurvy]

This is really funny, they're trying to build a fence to stop people getting in? It'l be like a 50m hurdle race

btw, they're not aliens

[AntiochusIII]

Commend? My arse. That damn wall is a waste of tax money that my family contributes (yes, we legal immigrants do pay taxes, and quite a lot to speak of) while it could be used to do actual stuff to solve problems.

The idea that a physical wall will work against humans is totally ridiculous. Have these Congressmen forgot how the oh-so-magnificent Great Wall of China was a total waste?

Apparently they missed the part about the law of supply and demand. As long as employers continue to hire desperate illegal workers for dirt-cheap slave-labor wages that also happen to be higher than in Mexico, there will be lives willing to risk.

MRD: I don't know how serious you are, but blaming this squarely on the immigrants is, really, not very wise.

Edit: But of course, upon rethinking, I realize how common it is in America to put the bandage on a sword wound and call it a day. Or blame other people. How did I even let this surprise me?

[Samurai Waki]

This isn't going to do jack ****. It's going to waste Tax Payers money. Our problem with illegals is that theres a large incentive to work here, we need to be cracking down on businesses that are hiring illegals, not building a fence that in all reality isn't going to curb the problem.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

A first step, I agree.

An un-patrolled fence is almost useless. Properly supported it will add to national security. It will be far more effective on that level than it will on curtailing illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration must be attacked on two levels:

1. Minimize the incentive for people to head to El Norte for labor (enforcing our existing labor laws would be nice, harsher fines for scammers even better).

2. Work with Mexico to have them alter their social safety net so as to stop making "Go work in El Norte" a primary component. A Mexican government that at least was neutral -- as opposed to actively encouraging -- illegal workers to head to the US would be helpful.


#1 will be difficult because of resistance from the business community. Cheaper labor cuts costs and allows you to compete more effectively -- this is a basic issue for business and they will not want to make the adjustment.

#2 will be difficult because most governments located South of the Rio Grande and North of Magellan's Pass would more happily tell the USA to go piss up a rope than coordinate to solve the problem (and not entirely without justification. Our policies over the years in Latin America haven't always been consistent or friendly).

[Xiahou]

Amen, and can I get a hallelujah?

All of our attempts to cut of supply are meaningless until we're willing to do something serious about demand. End of story.

True- but not the end of the story. Border security is also an important factor. Even without the strong pull from employers of illegals you'd still see criminal gangs, drug runners, ect coming across the border to do business. God forbid that we'd see terrorists coming into the US across an unprotected border...

This bill looks to do more than simply build a fence, it also calls for increased border security via technology and manpower. As DA said, it is a good start, but it's still not addressing the criminals within the US who employ illegals.

[Divinus Arma]

(yes, we legal immigrants do pay taxes, and quite a lot to speak of)

WE WANT LEGAL IMMIGRATION.

We are not xenophobes. I swear to God you people don't even read posts before you reply.

[AntiochusIII]

WE WANT LEGAL IMMIGRATION. capitalization removed

We are not xenophobes. I swear to God you people don't even read posts before you reply.

Eh, I'm not asserting differently. May be you're just misinterpreting my post instead?

[rory_20_uk]

If you want LEGAL migration, hows about sorting the system so no one wants to be an illegal? What an idea!

Oh, but then you can't get kick backs from the companies that get money to make this massive fence, and then repair it when it comes under repeated attack by peoples trying to cross it.

You can't just steal money from the Treasury, so just ask for mates to make something useless and you achieve the same thing.

[Tsavong]

#1 will be difficult because of resistance from the business community. Cheaper labor cuts costs and allows you to compete more effectively -- this is a basic issue for business and they will not want to make the adjustment.

But storey if they cant compete so well they run the risk of going out of business or at least more foreran maid goods will be imported into the US and so more of your hard earned cash levees the US.

by the way from my point of view as an Englishman i find it quite amusing that the US which lets face it is built on emigration is no so paranoid about people coming to the US

[Mithrandir]

Oh goody, I was hoping someone would follow Israels magnificent way of handling things.

[Somebody Else]

Why not put the money into removing the 'il' from people trying to migrate? Set up centres to teach whatever it is you chaps want your immigrants to know. Just because someone is born in a particular place doesn't make them any more or less of a person than someone born somewhere else.

[Proletariat]

Just because someone is born in a particular place doesn't make them any more or less of a person than someone born somewhere else.

Alright, where did you get the idea anyone thinks that? I've lived in quite a few different countries, this one is easily the most welcoming of them all, to anyone.

[Somebody Else]

If a country were truly welcoming, it would throw open it's borders completely.

Calling someone an 'illegal immigrant' is a legal term, yes. Legality is a question of judgement - hence 'judiciary' &c. Therefore calling someone an 'illegal immigrant' is judging them to be different to a 'legal migrant' or 'citizen' - the disparaging tone and/or context that usually goes along with it is enough to make the phrase derogatory in itself.

As for the US being the most welcoming - that may be so. It's not as if there's much competition on that front...

[Lemur]

If a country were truly welcoming, it would throw open it's borders completely.

And yet no country has ever done this, with the exception of failed states (i.e., nations where central governance has collapsed). Does this mean that no country is "truly welcoming"?

[Somebody Else]

And yet no country has ever done this, with the exception of failed states (i.e., nations where central governance has collapsed). Does this mean that no country is "truly welcoming"?

I'm a big fan of globalisation me... and the abolition of nation states. Why accentuate our differences with different passports &c. when we could just, well, get along?

[Lemur]

While I don't think your view is practical, Somebody Else, I'm glad you're on the board expressing it. A true globalizaion fan! Most excellent! It's about time we had someone advocating the abolition of the nation state. In fact, I think you should start a thread where you expound on these views. Should be fun for everyone involved.

P.S.: I'm still holding out for a flat earther to "round" things out.

[rory_20_uk]

My uncle is a fan of all in one massive "country". The fact that all over the globe countries are splintering into smaller units as people want their individual areas separate.

Whilst ideally possibly a good idea, it has about as much realistic chance of success as Communism.

[Major Robert Dump]

I really get tired of this "lets make it where they won't want to migrate" attitude. We gonna fix all of south america now? Mexico can fix itself, sending them loads of money won't do a damn thing to change that country

[Strike For The South]

it should have electrictiy

[rory_20_uk]

it should have electrictiy

Ok... so when the first piece of metal is used to short out the wire, then what? Oh, and chances are that lots of people will have this idea.

Or place something like paint / rubber / a thick sheet over the wire? It won't work.

What would? Set it 100m inside US territory, have landmines, ploughed land, guardposts with machinegun nests set atop a slight slope with range markers every 10 metres to aid zeroing in.

Oh, and be prepared to kill lots of people who'se only real sin is wanting to work. (Oh, they're probably all terrorists, so it's alright...)

Barbed wire / razor wire / electricity will be circumvented in minutes.

[Scurvy]

I really get tired of this "lets make it where they won't want to migrate" attitude. We gonna fix all of south america now? Mexico can fix itself, sending them loads of money won't do a damn thing to change that country

well without sending money mexico has no chance of fixing itself - its just that kind of attitude that makes mexicans want to migrate, "america doesnt want to help us fix our country, so lets migrate to their better country"

fixing mexico is in itslef extremely difficult, crime gangs have most authority, and taking a country from relative poverty, to being more attractive as a living place than the USA is close to impossible, the only way that might work is letting in so many immagrants, that all hte emxicans would rather stay at home