Peoples of God - total war

[Orb]

I'm off for 10 days in Italy.

Poor me.

Hopefully, the Damascene preview will be posted on the day I get back.

[Kolkhi-2]

your forgot Kingdom of Georgia (and Kingdom of Armenia in Caucasus region dosn't was, becouse armenian land included Georgian kingdom since 1124 till 1466 )
http://www.nplg.gov.ge/ic/library_e/gabeskiria/
http://www.iaphs.org/articles/urushadze.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maps_of_Georgia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_%28country%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._%28country%29
:

[Kavhan Isbul]

Hi there,

I have a few questions. As a Bulgarian, I would love to see a mod that has Bulgaria in it, and I would be glad to be of any help, especially where research is involved. However, there was no independent Bulgarian country between roughly 1014 and 1187, and if the game starts in the 1060-s that presents a slight problem, does not it? My question is, what solution do you have in mind to make Bulgaria a playable faction, without a huge historical inaccuracy? Well, I know, part of the game is to actually change the course of history, but I believe this should be done by playing the game, and factions' starting positions should be left historically accurate. I was wondering, as there were a few major rebellions, in one of which even a new Bulgarian tzar was proclaimed, would it be possible to include the Bulgarians as a playable faction from the very start and give the player basicly control over the rebellion? Will it be possible for this Bulgarian faction to be in war with the Eastern Roman Empire from the very start? If this is indeed possible, I promise to do my best to gather information on a relevant rebellion, its leaders and the troops involved.
That being said, I think that the inclusion of a Bulgarian faction is well justified not only because more factions equals more fun, and as pressure for the Byzantines, but also as in realituy Bulgaria did play an important role during the Crusades, changed its religion to Catholic for a short period of time around the Fourth Crusade, then defeated the Latin Empire at Adrianopol almost immediately after its establishment (which did not destroy the fledgling Empire, but ultimately decided its fate), and went on to establish a short lived Empire on the Balkans in the first half ot the 13th century. I am writing all this to show that Bulgaria can be an interesting faction to play even for non-Bulgarians.
Of course, I would be more than happy to help with research on the Bulgarian faction, if such help is needed.

[Muad'Dib]

Have i mentioned that i live in Damascus? :)

[Orb]

My question is, what solution do you have in mind to make Bulgaria a playable faction, without a huge historical inaccuracy? I was wondering, as there were a few major rebellions, in one of which even a new Bulgarian tzar was proclaimed, would it be possible to include the Bulgarians as a playable faction from the very start and give the player basicly control over the rebellion? Will it be possible for this Bulgarian faction to be in war with the Eastern Roman Empire from the very start?

That being said, I think that the inclusion of a Bulgarian faction is well justified not only because more factions equals more fun, and as pressure for the Byzantines, but also as in realituy Bulgaria did play an important role during the Crusades, changed its religion to Catholic for a short period of time around the Fourth Crusade, then defeated the Latin Empire at Adrianopol almost immediately after its establishment (which did not destroy the fledgling Empire, but ultimately decided its fate), and went on to establish a short lived Empire on the Balkans in the first half ot the 13th century. I am writing all this to show that Bulgaria can be an interesting faction to play even for non-Bulgarians.
Of course, I would be more than happy to help with research on the Bulgarian faction, if such help is needed.

The mod will start in 1099, and also have 3 starting positions: 1099, 1220 and 1377.

Well, Bulgaria was constantly a problem for the Byzantines and only very recently crushed by Basil II, the faction will begin as a Byzantine protectorate, but may rebel frequently (it will have a bad relations modifier with the Byzantines). I would hate for those Greeks to suffer pressure and concerns only in the east, although a few events will help stir the west up.

Any research help would be great

your forgot Kingdom of Georgia (and Kingdom of Armenia in Caucasus region dosn't was, becouse armenian land included Georgian kingdom since 1124 till 1466 )

I know, I should update the faction list more frequently
Thanks for the research

[Kavhan Isbul]

The mod will start in 1099, and also have 3 starting positions: 1099, 1220 and 1377.

Well, Bulgaria was constantly a problem for the Byzantines and only very recently crushed by Basil II, the faction will begin as a Byzantine protectorate, but may rebel frequently (it will have a bad relations modifier with the Byzantines). I would hate for those Greeks to suffer pressure and concerns only in the east, although a few events will help stir the west up.

Any research help would be great

I have not played RTW, so here is a dumb question - are protectorates playable?
No 1099 was a year, in which no major rebeliion took part. However, earlier, around the 1080s there was a major rebellion lead by a certain Konstantin Bodin, a heir to the Serbian throne and a grandchild of Samuil, one of the last Bulgarian tzars. It was unsuccessful due to treachery, but Konstantin Bodin (who in the meantime was proclaiemd Tzar of Bulgaria under the name of Peter III) managed to excape after being captured by the Byzantines and later even ruled as king of Serbia. Whether, and how, this can be incorporated into the mod, I do not know.

If there is a 1220 starting position, it will coincide with the greatest period of the Second Bulgarian Empire, when the ruler was Ivan Assen II. He ascended to the throne in 1018 after a successful coup against his cousin Boril (Ivan Assen was the legitimate heir, but after Boril killed Kaloyan shortly after the great Bulgarian victory against the Latins at Adrianople, he usurped the throne). The title Ivan Assen II uses is Tzar of Bulgarians and Wallachians, meaning that if the map has Wallachia, it needs to be in Bulgaria at this point. The Bulgarian roster needs to include plenty of Cuman cavalry, especially horse archers, since there was still an alliance between the Bulgarian Tzars and the Western Cumans - the latter fleeing from the Mongols after the Khalka River battle.
The first 12 years of Ivan Assen's rule were quite peaceful - he married a Hungarian princess (thus receiving back the Belgrade provicne from the Hungarians) and allied himself with Theodoros Komnenus, the Despot of Epirus. Theodoros Komnenus was in the meantime successful in retaking Thessalonika from the Latins and in defeating Ian II Duca Vatazzi - the Emperor of Nicea and then capturing Adrianople. Ivan Assen allied himself also with the Serbs and the Latins. Fearing that the Bulgarians may take Constantinople through a dynastic marriage, and feeling over confident from his victories against the Latins and the Nicean Empire, Theodoros Komnenus breached the alliance and was soundly defeated in the battle of Klokotnitza in 1230, after which Bulgaria became the main power on the Balks for a few decades, with Epirus and Serbia vassal to Ivan Assen II. Not much is clear about the battle, apart from the fact that Theodors's army greatly outnumbered the surprised Bulgarians, who did not expect an invasion by an ally. His army included mercenaries from Italy, while the Bulgarian forces were supported by at least a 1000 Cumans. At the end of the battle almost the entire army of the Epirus Despot was captured, which probably means that the Bulgarians were able to somehow encircle their enemy.
This does not have much relevance to the mod, however, but for the purpose of starting positions, in 1220 Bulgaria needs to control also Wallachia and the area around Belgrade, its troops need to include a good amount of Cuman horse archers, and maybe even some Rus troops from Galicia (Ivan Assen II used them in overthrowing Boril), and Bulgaria needs to be allied to Hunagry and the Cumans (if these are on the map in some form, if not then disregard) and the Despoty of Epirus (although the latter should be coded to do a sneak attack if this is possible) and in peace with the Latins (even allied to them at one point, although not in 1220). Actually, in 1220 Bulgaria was officially Catholic - later Ivan Assen II restored the Orthodox Church and the Turnovo Patriarch (which did not stop him from executing the Patriarch when he did not agree to marry him for a fifth time), but in 1220 Bulgaria was Catholic and considered such by the Pope, Hungary and the Latins. The population was still Orthodox though, and Ivan Assen II was never a fanatic, allowing even the Bogomils to preach freely. No religious unrest is reported during his rule and generally throughout the history of the Second Bulgarian Empire. I guess this should mean that Bulgarian rulers do not get rebellions due to heresy, or at least have some bonus in this regard.
And finally, in 1337 Bulgaria was ruled by Ivan Alexander. Much of Walalchia was lost, except for the fortresses alone the Danube on the northern bank of the river - those remained under Bulagrian control until the Ottoman conquest. He ruled until 1371, and in 1332 he managed to defeat the Byzantines in the battle of Russocastro, and then took Eastern Thrace, including almost all fortresses along the Black Sea coast. After that the situation became quite complicated, with Bulgaria having to wage wars on almostt all fronts - against Hungary, the Byzantines, helped by Amadei of Savoy who radied the Black Sea coast as their ally (long and complicated story), the Ottomans and inner separatists. He was able to hold out and Bulagria survived, but this efat was impossible for his heirs. Playing with Bulgaria starting at 1337 should be extremely tough.
Let me know what further research do you need, and I will be glad to help.

[beauchamp]

Thanks God that someone focuses on the East! Finally, a good mod about something OTHER than Europe.
Shokran Jizilan and Good Luck on your mod!
(Ps. If u need anything translated into Arabic, just PM me).

[Orb]

I am, although it is a little late to say so, enormously sorry for bailing on this, and even more so for not even providing an apology to those who joined.



If I get a computer that can handle Medieval II, I plan to resurrect this in the autumn or winter of this year.

Oh, and because it never went public, because I ran out of energy and didn't write up the preview, this is the very nice faction icon AliAS did for Damascus

[phoenix[illusion]]

I don't understand this title of mod. Peoples of God??? You mean People of God. People is already in plural.

[Orb]

People is the plural of person.
Peoples is the plural of people.

E.G.

An Englishman is a person
The English are a people

Englishmen are people
The English and the French are peoples

Yeah, it's a bit odd, but it is correct.

[nnnm]

is thier any map yet guys???