call of duty

[Warluster]

A few days ago i saw a topic about call of duty 4! what do you reckon's going to happen in this time?

[Hepcat]

That is insane, they have only recently announced call of duty 3 and now they are already discussing call of duty 4.

Hopefully it will be for PC as CoD3 is meant to be just for console. Who knows what they will do, they may include a German campaign in 4. They would have to have something new because they have already gone through a lot of the major battles of the war. I don't know about everyone else but I would like to see the battles through the eyes of the other side.

[Fragony]

Won't be long untill they run out out of famous battles. Never been that hot on COD, it's all cosmetics.

[Kraxis]

That is insane, they have only recently announced call of duty 3 and now they are already discussing call of duty 4.

Hopefully it will be for PC as CoD3 is meant to be just for console. Who knows what they will do, they may include a German campaign in 4. They would have to have something new because they have already gone through a lot of the major battles of the war. I don't know about everyone else but I would like to see the battles through the eyes of the other side.

Been hoping for that ever since I saw the first review of CoD.
I would love to fight desperate defensive operations, with fallbacks and small counterattacks ect ect. And it would be fun to play the Ardennes Offensive as a German.

But the developers are scared of portraying the 'evil' side in any positive light. For some reason it is believed to offend people that they should go about killing their heroes.
However it is perfectly ok to do that in strategy games, simulators (which to me are pretty similar to FPS games) and in MP. It is wierd to be honest. Why not try it as a bonus campaign or soemthing like that?
Well, I'm still pretty certain it won't be done for any of the mainstream games.

[Samurai Waki]

Yes I find this strange as well. Considering also that there are more collectors of German Memorabilia than Allied Memorabilia, and you can't tell me it's because the German stuff is worth more. Yeah, the Nazi did some very terrible things, but this should not discredit the German soldiers who did fight valiantly.
The rest of the world has moved on, most of the wounds have been healed, and I think it's past its time in the FPS world that the German's get their share of the cake, plus the allied stuff is getting very repetitious and boring.

Perhaps Finland during the Winter War would be a good alternative?

[Hepcat]

I did actually start work on a SP German campaign for CoD2 though stopped because I didn't have enough reference pictures to redesign Fornebu Airfield (in Norway). I got the German soldiers to work as friendly ones and Allied as the enemy but I am just too fussy when it comes to buildings, if someone helped me make the buildings then it could really take off.
Here is an example of my shocking construction skills:


I was going to do the campaign from the invasion of Norway to fighting in Holland then North Africa. If anyone volunteers to help me recreate a Norwegian Airfield then I would gladly do it.

What surprised me was that in CoD2 they already have the random name and rank generator for the German troops, and when you make the Germans friendly troops they respond like the Allied soldiers BUT IN GERMAN! It looks as though they expected someone to make a German campaign because they have made it easy to do so.


So yeah, if anyone is interested in helping me, let me know, I am perfectly happy to help anyone who is new to the editor learn (though in a week I am going to Europe for 21 days so I may be slow to reply).

[Warluster]

that is horrible to think of a german campaign! I do not think it is very nice killing YOUR grandfathers! And yes they were going to make a german campaign if you wanted to know. They were talking about for ages. The buildings look fine to me. I mean, buildings are buildings!

[Hepcat]

I don't believe it is a horrible thought. We aren't advocating the Nazi regime any more than you are advocating the Soviet Union when you play the Soviet campaign on Red Alert, or play as the Viet Cong on Battlefield.

I am not doing this because I have some fanatical obsession with the Nazi party or because I believe they should have won. I have a grandmother who was in London during the blitz and a grandfather who grew up in occupied Holland so I hardly think that is fair!

It is meerly for the interest factor, the Wehrmacht troops were just as human as the Allied troops and they are someone elses Grandfather too. They aren't all in the German army because they are hard core party members, most were just doing their duty to their country, they didn't have a choice in the matter. I had also contemplated making a level about being in the German resistance but I didn't have enough info on it so abandoned the idea.

I am NOT a neo-nazi!

Is there anything wrong with playing the French under Napoleon when they tried to take over Europe too, no, so why is this so much different?

[The_Mark]

-- We aren't advocating the Nazi regime -- I am not doing this because I have some fanatical obsession with the Nazi party or because I believe they should have won -- I am NOT a neo-nazi!

Well, that didn't look as funny as it did after I read the previous post.

I do not think it is very nice killing YOUR grandfathers!

There hasn't yet been a war where one of the sides hasn't been any less human than you. Think about it. There are currently some 80 million Germans living in Germany who had their grandfathers and fathers in the 2nd World War. Is the enemy just a faceless figure or a man with a loving wife and four kids waiting for their daddy to come back home?

Thinking of the former certainly helps in a war where you have to defend yourself or get killed. Thinking of the latter gives you perspective needed to avoid the damned business known as war.

Perhaps Finland during the Winter War would be a good alternative?

Hear hear!

[Fragony]

that is horrible to think of a german campaign! I do not think it is very nice killing YOUR grandfathers!

Why? The germans had the coolest uniforms and weapons and the wehrmacht was just an army like any other, now an SS campaign is something different but in WW2 most german soldiers were ordinary decent people.

[Hepcat]

There hasn't yet been a war where one of the sides hasn't been any less human than you. Think about it. There are currently some 80 million Germans living in Germany who had their grandfathers and fathers in the 2nd World War. Is the enemy just a faceless figure or a man with a loving wife and four kids waiting for their daddy to come back home?

Exactly my point. I am sorry, I sort of over-reacted when I thought I was being called a neo-nazi, after the rant I realised that he wasn't actually implying that so I am sorry.

My Dutch grandfather told me never to fall into the trap of prejudice against one side just because they lost, and I have always thought that his opinion on such things is worth listening to since he watched the war play out and told me not only of the bad things the Germans did but also that the American grenades killed more civilians than Germans during the liberation.

So that is why I hold my view that it is ok to recreate the military and proffesional side of the war, though doing something like making a level about killing Jews with you in the execution squad would be in very poor taste and I would never do such a thing.

The way I look at it, my great great great great (etc) grandparents were killing each other in the Dutch-English wars, yet by playing a game as one of those sides I am not doing injustice to my family heritage, it is just a game afterall.

sorry for going off topic.

[Fragony]

Surely you mean that your dutch great great grandtfather was spanking your english great great grandfather with little effort whatsoever

[Hepcat]

Ha yes, and then the Dutch ended up ruling England (YAY FOR KING WILLIAM!).

[Fragony]

How dare you go off-topic, we were discussing call of duty

[Hepcat]

Damn you! Look what you made me do.

Right back on topic:

All I can find about Call of Duty 4 is just rumours on forums, nothing official.
This is one post I found:

Since Infinity Ward isn't making Call of Duty 3(I think the guys that did The Big Red One are), Infinity Ward is supposedly working on Call of Duty 4. And I've heard from several sources that Call of Duty 4 is not going to take place in WWII.

So Warluster would you be able to post your sources of information then maybe this can get back on topic (Fragony started it!)?

[Kraxis]

It is interesting to note that the Germans don't seem to have a problem blasting THEIR grandfathers to dust. Call of Duty, Medal of Honor and all the other "shoot Nazis/Germans" games have sold pretty well in Germany.
Either they are more resilent in Germany or they have been better at moving on... Or perhaps neither, and it is just baseless fear that keeps a German FPS from making it's debut.

I remember I hoped for a German Commandos, but for the same reason as FPS games, I guess, it never came to be.

It is nice to hear that they at least planned on making a German capaign in CoD2. But at the same time it is discouraging as I'm certain the producer made them can it. And if they did it once, they will likely do it again.

[Warluster]

I can not post the sources because i can not remeber where i saw it!

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

that is horrible to think of a german campaign! I do not think it is very nice killing YOUR grandfathers! And yes they were going to make a german campaign if you wanted to know. They were talking about for ages. The buildings look fine to me. I mean, buildings are buildings!

By your theory, I "kill" my grandfathers/great uncles every time I play one of those games. Two of my great uncles died on the Eastern Front, and another was murdered by Soviets. I'd like to see the war from their point of view in an unmodded FPS for once.

EDIT: Bold added to emphasize that I have no objection to shooting virtual figures.

[Warluster]

sorry mate! But i am proud of my pa and i am not blasting him!

[Kekvit Irae]

Take it to the backroom if you want to discuss morality. It's a game. Made of 1s and 0s. There is nothing living in there. If you seriously believe you are really shooting your grandfather, please put down the controller or the mouse and go read a book.

I, for one, would very much enjoy a German campaign. Except for really crappy portrayals of WWII battles (read: Battlefield 1942), no other game really allows you to play a full German campaign in a FPS. And on that topic, I want to see a Russian campaign that is NOT set in Stalingrad. Or Berlin. Heck, I want to play as the US Marines or the Japanese in the Pacific! Give us the forgotten campaigns!

EDIT: Let's not forget the Aussies, Chinese, and Canadians either

[Samurai Waki]

Or the Finns, Hungarians, Romanians, Italians, French, and the Indians.

Edit: And Greeks, and Serbs, and Macedonians, and Albanians, and Croats, and Bosnians, and Slovaks, and Czechs, and Poles, and Dutch, and Belgians, and Bulgarians, and Slovenians, and Hertzegovinians... and the list goes on.

[Warluster]

Aussie,Aussie,Aussie! oi,oi,oi!

[Warluster]

[QUOTE=kekvitirae]Take it to the backroom if you want to discuss morality. It's a game. Made of 1s and 0s. There is nothing living in there. If you seriously believe you are really shooting your grandfather, please put down the controller or the mouse and go read a book.

Look mate, that is quite offending to me because i hold the diggers in high respect! plus i have freedom of speech! you might say you have freedom of speech but if you look up freedom of speech properly then it will say ' Allowed to say anything but offending or violent' well that's offending to me so i want an apology! other wise, i'll report ya!

[Fragony]

She's the moderator here genius, read the faq about the different forums.

[Kekvit Irae]

Freedom of speech only goes so far on a privately owned and funded server. You are required keep the religious, moral, debate, and political topics in their respective areas. It's the reason why we have moderators in the first place, so the forum does not degenerate into often off-topic topics in clearly defined subforums.

[The_Mark]

Or the Finns, Hungarians, Romanians, Italians, French, and the Indians.

Edit: And Greeks, and Serbs, and Macedonians, and Albanians, and Croats, and Bosnians, and Slovaks, and Czechs, and Poles, and Dutch, and Belgians, and Bulgarians, and Slovenians, and Hertzegovinians... and the list goes on.

But especially the Finns

[frogbeastegg]

:Draws a hairpin and holds it poised, ready to throw to get people's attention:

Morality in general belongs in the backroom; morality in games can belong in the arena, provided that the thread abide by the arena's polite and fluffy rules and doesn't become a backroom style brawl.

I have no objections to a thread being started to discuss the topic. However, this thread isn't the best place for such a debate; it wouldn't be a small subtopic within the larger discussion, but would equal or dominate the original topic.

[Samurai Waki]

But especially the Finns

Agreed, I'm going to go play FDF Now.