The Will of the Senate PBM - out of character thread IV

[econ21]

More Pics: got it, will do so. Was under the impression that Econ21 and TinCow were getting concerned with the size of threads but I'm sure there's room for at least one detailed report.

I don't think we were concerned. Mount did raise the issue of a few pages getting rather monstrously full of images. I've now learnt that the number of posts - not their content - is they key thing: 30 posts = new page. I recommend me use many short posts in the Consular and battle report threads, as they are understandably image-heavy. A long battle could have two or posts.

[Braden]

Lucjan,

Your battle was utter SLAUGHTER! You deserved as many pics as you needed to portray that.

BTW – posted my own latest battle report (Symrna) now, more pics though tactically a city assault is a city assault but I did something quite cunning you may be interested in.

I’m now waiting to see what happens next in Carthage!

[Lucjan]

Just doing my duty to Rome. But thank you! Cartago got real messy real quick, but we've finally settled the issues of Corinth and Thessaloniki, maybe Athens next turn we have to wait and see.

Consular report will be up later tonight, can't say exactly when, depends on when I get the time to spare. But it will be up later tonight. Bear in mind I'm on eastern time, so 8pm for me would be, I think 2am for those of you on GMT.

EDIT - Consul Report is up, will be posting 2 battle reports some time tomorrow.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Battle report up. It's on a shiny new page.

Egads, that's the third write-up I've done today.

[flyd]

Something is a little funny if we have indeed entered Winter 253 as the latest report states. The 10th turn should be Autumn 253. Winter 253 would be the 11th turn, and should most certainly belong to the second half-term. If you don't believe me, you can count from Summer 255, or look at the previous motion threads, each end-term voting session has been during Summer xx5, and a mid-term during Autumn xx3.

[Dooz]

Uh oh... could the script not have been turned on for a turn or something? This might have something to do with my character having 2 "military career" counters. One is stuck at 9 years, another at 1. Does anybody here who has knowledge of manually modding that stuff know how we could get rid of the extra one? Kind of like adding or removing traits through the command line?

[econ21]

One is stuck at 9 years, another at 1.

I noticed that. I am a little wary of trying to edit these traits - because both the 9 and 1 may refer to the same trait, there's a danger that we might delete both. I suggest first off that you fast forward a number of turns privately (just hit end turn repeatedly) and see what happens to your experience. Try to become a legate (10 years field experience; must be former tribune). If the 9 experience increments normally, I would not worry about it - you may just have missed one turn. If it does not, we have a problem. Remember you should be in the field to gain experience, so get Cornelius out of the city that Lucjan has put you in.

On the missing turn, it sounds like the scripting may not have been skipped for a turn. Let's have the mid-term after 10 turns - if that means 11 seasons.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

I'd like to congratulate everyone on the quality of their reports.

[Dooz]

I noticed that. I am a little wary of trying to edit these traits - because both the 9 and 1 may refer to the same trait, there's a danger that we might delete both. I suggest first off that you fast forward a number of turns privately (just hit end turn repeatedly) and see what happens to your experience. Try to become a legate (10 years field experience; must be former tribune). If the 9 experience increments normally, I would not worry about it - you may just have missed one turn. If it does not, we have a problem. Remember you should be in the field to gain experience, so get Cornelius out of the city that Lucjan has put you in.

Problem is, I've had this happen to me in my own game I was playing with the same mods. I believe the lower counter moves up until a certain point, but my career will never progress. That's why I figured the only way is to eliminate one of them. If they both disappear, can't we bring it manually back and set at the appropriate amount of years? I really hope someone knows the codes for this.

[econ21]

All I know is:

To give a triumph:
give_trait "CHARACTER NAME" "RomanHero" X

So maybe there is a "remove_trait" command? You could try searching the twcenter and the web for RTW cheat codes and console commands.

Have a look around - if you don't get anywhere, I will do some digging too.

Also try to use the consol to give yourself the legate trait. If the worst comes to the worst, you might be able to keep track of your own experience and we could give you the appropriate Roman leadership traits. Once you get to Legate (+3 command), the rest is just candy, IMO.

[Dutch_guy]

I'd like to congratulate everyone on the quality of their reports.

Yeah, same here !

Great fun reading them all.

[econ21]

I'd like to congratulate everyone on the quality of their reports.

May I be the second to second this! Great stuff.

[Dooz]

econ, unfortunately I can't give the Legate trait without the military counter being in it's appropriate position, tried it before. Pretty sticky situation.

[econ21]

And I guess:

give_trait Cornelius Saturnius MilitaryService 10

does not work? Maybe you should try contacting Marcus Camillus on the RTR forums for help? He created the Roman leadership traits and may be able to help with the syntax of the command. Inspecting the VnV txt file for the trait name might also be informative.

[Lucjan]

Woops! Sorry about panicing everybody, my attention was divided and I guess I missed that in my revising.

It is spring, not winter. I'll go fix it now. So we still have two turns until midterm. Those screenies were taken this season, and there's no snow, so it can't possibly be winter.

EDIT - posted 2 new battle reports.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

It is possible to remove incorrect traits. TinCow has done this repeatedly. I of course lost the correct link, but the commands are listed in on of the OOC-threads.

EDIT : Found it

Removes any "Former _____" trait:
give_trait "CHARACTER NAME" "Former_Military_Service" 0

Removes all Military Service if the starting amount is 9 years or less:
give_trait "CHARACTER NAME" "Military_Service_Years_1to9" 0

Here's the link to Spartan's Trait guide.

p.s. You need to use the original character name for this to work, so not Tiberius the Victor, but Tiberius Coruncanius. To enter these commands, press '~' on the world campaign map screen to bring up the console.
econ21, it might be handy to add this and the give trait commands to the FAQ.

[econ21]

Good work, DDW!

Wonderland - why don't you play around with the above commands on your own save? When you are happy you have cracked it (fast forward a few turns to make sure you can be a legate etc), can you post the exact commands here and Lucjan can use them?

It would be good to have the final commands here, as then I will put them in the FAQ as DDW suggests, in case this comes up again.

If you have problems, DDW or I can play around with it for you.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just a question - when fighting a battle must I exit out of the screen in order to click on a city in order to activate 4TPY? Because I've done that a couple of times now and I don't want Marcellus getting "Hesitant Attacker."

Thanks.

[Glaucus]

I never do. Probably should though... then we could just delete the trait if you get it.

[Lucjan]

No, don't do that. All you need to do is fight the battle, save and send it back. Exiting out of the screen first only complicates things. Especially during an ai turn, exiting out of the screen then causes big headaches.

[Dooz]

If you have problems, DDW or I can play around with it for you.

Teehee, you lil' devils you.

Excellent stuff though, gonna' go try it out right now. Be back with an update.


*edit*
Yahoo, baby! Tried it out a couple of ways and found it. Thanks you so much DDW and econ! Really appreciate the help. Here's how to do it, correct order for it to work properly. Lucjan can take it from here .

give_trait "Cornelius Saturninus" "Former_Military_Service" 0
takes out the erroneous former legate trait which I have without 10 years service

give_trait "Cornelius Saturninus" "Military_Service_Years_1to9" 0
takes out the extra 1 year military service trait, leaves the correct 9

give_trait "Cornelius Saturninus" "Tribune" 1
gives tribune trait, without which the 9 year trait doesn't increase and won't work


So yeah, after that, I believe it took one or two turns to get to the 10 year mark. Then have to be stationed in a city again (argh) for 2 turns I think, and back in the field with Roman troops and boom, I'm promoted baby.

[Glaucus]

I was watching HBO's Rome earlier this week (rented the DVDs and so far they're excellent), and it made me think a bit. A tribune, for those who don't know, is an officer elected by the plebs, to check and balance the power of the seante. A tribune could veto any motion that was proposed in the senate. The Tribune's veto was a powerful thing, and I have thought of a way, if you're at all interested, to replicate a Tribune in our PBeM.

Each 'term' there are two senate sessions, one in which the consul is elected and legislation passed, the other just legislation is passed. I thought it would be fun and realistic to have anyone who wants to stand for "People's Tribune" speak up at the mid term session, so we elect them then. Their term would overlap with the consular one, so that we never have a Tribune and Consul election at the same time. So the Tribune's term would last the same amount of time as the consul's, but not at the same time. Therefore the Tribune would be in office for 2 sessions, the one he is elected during and the one where we elect the consul. I think he should be allowed to veto 1(one) motion at each session. This would add a whole new element, and I understand if we don't want to add in the middle of the campaign, but it would make the PBeM so much deeper, more fun, and more realistic.

[Dutch_guy]

It is a good idea, and one most certainly open for discussion.

But the difficult part is that we don't really have a plebs, so the tribune would be elected by members of the senate, essentially meaning the senate would never elect a potential difficult tribune - which kind of negates the whole effect of a Tribune.

Maybe, however, we could let the consul select a tribune, Maybe from within his own family? To, well, keep the senate in check and veto any consul restricting actions the senate may wish to impose on him.

The Former would also increase the influence of the families and enhance it's importance in this PBM. Something which I think could be ''exploited'' a bit more, would make for some interesting Role playing. And it would spice up the debates.

[Braden]

Pah! - change of subject - I now have no phone OR internet at home

At least I've got this, copy save file to floppy disc and take home from work thing sorted.

Sounds like I've got an "interesting" battle ahead of me too......

[Tamur]

I very much like the idea of having a Tribune with overlapping term of office. And however ahistorical it is, I like the idea of the Senate electing this office in the same way the Consul is currently elected. This would give some great energy to midterm elections, especially if the office of Tribune were loaded up with both legislative and other abilities (like the ability to execute, hahaha!)

edit: also this makes me wonder, if we had more people, could we set up regional governors and the like?

[Tamur]

Question: I'm wondering about recruitment.

There are a few friends of mine who are very much into Roman history & politics and would be thrilled to join in here. However, they would have absolutely no interest in the Total War part of the game.

Is it OK to invite people who have no interest in RTW to join the Senate part of the game here?

[Dutch_guy]

We could also, say, restrict the office of tribune to those who's characters have x points in ...say...management. To make the office somewhat more special than ''just another role''.

PS: Tamur, now I'm not the one to decide on the issue you put forward, but I'd say the more the merrier. However, a certain understanding of the game (ie Rome) might be welcome. But as said, this is not my call.

[Glaucus]

We could also, say, restrict the office of tribune to those who's characters have x points in ...say...management. To make the office somewhat more special than ''just another role''.

I think if we put any restricitions, it should be for influence. Lower house members tend to have more command stars due to their constant battles. Upper house senators tend to have more managment due to their governing all the time. Influence is more 'neutral', and I think more accurate. To veto a motion, you don't need to be good at managing, but influence.

P.S. Does anyone know when to expect the Marian Reforms?

[Lucjan]

The Marian Reforms certainly are taking their jolly good time...

[Dutch_guy]

Don't they simply require an Imperial Palace (highest tier govermental building) and the highest tier Barracks building ?

I remember playing a Roman RTRPE campaign a while back, and me getting the Marian Reforms after a mere seven years or so. I had them quite a while at this stage of our current PBM...