The Will of the Senate PBM - out of character thread IV

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

That's a pretty good description of Servius's rule

[econ21]

That's a pretty good description of Servius's rule.

Yes, I think if people want this PBM to go out with a literal bang - a civil war - now is the time to do it. I was planning to concoct something along those lines in 10-20 turns but now I fear anything we could come up with would just look forced and feeble compared to the opportunity for conflict that Servius has provided.

If things get sorted out peacefully, we may end this PBM after the next Consul in a more sedate fashion. Leave the Republic in good shape and sign off on a job well done.

I suggest we collectively play this crisis out in character and see what happens without worrying about the out of character ramifications. If it explodes, fine; if it passes over, fine.

[Death the destroyer of worlds]

I agree. If Manius sticks with Servius we will not be able to impeach him and our only recourse would necessarily be civil war. Let's do it now, Lucjan has created a perfect moment.

[TinCow]

I agree about playing it out and seeing what happens. Role-playing has really developed this situation in a very interesting manner. Many thanks to Lucjan for keeping it interesting.

I'm still in favor of using a multiplayer battle to determine the results of a civil war, if one begins. Victors always write the history books in reality, so they should here too.

[Braden]

Manius voted FOR impeachment last time! It didn't pass.

He'll vote for it again....redemption for his friend.....but don't let this steer the way you "think" Manius will fall when the crunch comes.

Even if the Consul refuses to resign, even if he ignores the Impeachment....would Manius desert his friend to death against the rest of the Senate?

- not telling -

What I will say is that this extra "push" by the Consul could mean a better civil war as before he still had too much support.

Oh and I certainly like the idea of a Multiplayer battle to decide the outcome.

[econ21]

On the mechanics of a Civil War, if it comes to that, I propose this: I will takeover the savegame (yes, I confess, I've been dying to my paws on that baby again).

Generals (Upper and Lower House) will declare for one side or the other (or play an ambiguous role like the Stanley brothers at Bosworth Field ) And I will move the Lower House general's armies (with suitable local reinforcements), towards each other or Rome as directed.

When armies meet, we will either fight out multiplayer battles or, if that is a problem for some participants, I will find some way of representing the outcomes in custom battles against the AI. (e.g. higher command general gets to fight against the AI; or I set up an AI vs AI battle like I did with Publius and the ford).

All the while, the real enemies of Rome - the Iberians, successors, Carthies etc will not be dormant.

The Civil War will end when all enemies are dead or have surrendered. But whoever controls Italy will have a big edge, as it is pretty much the only place where troops can be built. I will treat it as a demilitarised zone initially, in accordance with FLYdude's motion. Until they occupy the troop building settlements, the only troops generals will be able to get will be mercenaries and men from neighbouring garrisons (I will test their allegiance based on the proximity and relative influence of Senators).

The more I think about this, the more I think this is the way to end the PBM.

Anyone seen Kingdom of Heaven?

Guy de Lusignan: - - Give me a war.
Reynald: - - - - - - - That is what I do.

[Tamur]

I don't have much to add, just thought I would say that econ's suggestions sound good, and I agree that Servius has done a remarkable job keeping things unstable! It would seem a bit odd to have the issue come up again in some other form when the moment is ripe now.

[Braden]

Civil War mechanics – generally agree with your idea’s there Econ21. I assume you’ll be taking instruction about who want’s their forces moved where from either the avatars’ owner or a designated leader of the “faction”.

Personally I’m thinking that the Senate (loyalists) would elect a new Consul who would direct the Senate forces, whilst there would be Servius’s (new Republicans) being directed by Lucjan.

I would think that we should steer away from any battles that are not fully player controlled.

That leads me to the next point – Multiplayer. As I’ve stated before I’ve never played a multiplayer game with the Total War series but I’m happy to go through whatever needs to be done to enable this BUT…..

………..is our RTR version Multiplayer combatable and stable as that?

As for Italy – perhaps realism will have to take a back place in this as you suggest, would be good to have Lucjan’s forces perhaps up against it with limited Roman armies and relying on local forces more than the Republican forces but I can see that the Republican forces could swiftly overwhelm Lucjan’s forces.

However, the Republican forces would be still charged with the general security of Italy so would have to keep pumping forces out against Thrace and Iberia whilst Nu-Republican forces wouldn’t have to worry about that so it’s possible that, that factor could even up the opposing sides naturally.

Of course, not only this but IF Servius does not release his status he gets a few turns to re-enforce before it all blows up in his face anyway.

Considering that the casualty figures will be very high indeed for the battles (we’re not talking AI here), the whole thing could be swung pretty soon.

Edit – Oh, just a shame this isn’t Medieval and you can send out assassins against your own Avatars……I can see Manius, army broken, his few remaining men traipsing through North Africa and one night the assassin comes….. (would be the perfect “Roman” tool to use against individuals who survive once their armies have died)

[Lucjan]

You guys wanted a bang, so there you have it. An accidental civil war. Now where will all the chips really fall?

This is going to get really interesting.

[Braden]

Gonna stir things up more myself now!

[Braden]

Edit - wrong thread!