New comp ideas

**Geezer57** · 09-16-2006, 04:16

Originally Posted by Leftenant Moley

Point of View GeForce 7900GT 256MB,

MSI P965 NEO-F, P965, Socket-775, ATX,

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz Socket

Leftenant, all your choices look acceptable and should make a very good system. If it were for me, I'd try (while staying within budget) to make a couple of small changes.
Like the Duke said, you can get better image quality if you opt for a Radeon x1900 series GPU. I disagree with him on the x1900GT (especially it's being faster than the 7900GT - in most game tests in that Tech Report review I linked in my last post, just the opposite was true). I'm waiting for the price to drop a little bit more to jump on an x1950GT, but if I couldn't find that extra money, I'd choose a quality x1900XT with a non-reference cooling solution (like the HIS Hightech H190XTQ512DVN Radeon X1900XT) instead.

If you want to stick with NVidia, you're better served picking a 7900GS (256Mb) at the lower price point, or a 7950GT (512Mb) if more funds are available. The 7900GS just about matches the 7900GT, for a good bit less money - the 7950GT definitely outperforms the 7900GT, for little or no extra cash.

Switching subjects now - let's look at motherboards. Your MSI choice has one dominating factor - low price. Other than that, it doesn't offer much else. It's not a particularly good overclocker, and will never support any form of dual-slot GPU capability (SLI or CrossFire). If you want to stick with budget boards, but want a good overclocer, I'd strongly recommend the GIGABYTE GA-965P-S3. It's got a better layout than the MSI, and reports are that it screams happily at very high frequencies.
In my next board purchase, I'm insisting on the ability to support SLI or CrossFire, even if I don't start out with two graphics cards. That way, I can start out with one GPU when new, then upgrade later to a 2nd GPU (after prices have dropped) for a mid-life refresh.
If you'd like that option also, and were going NVidia SLI at some time, you might consider the ASUS P5NSLI as a budget board - it's only a little higher in price than the MSI. It uses the nForce 570 SLI northbridge chip, which gives you SLI with two PCIe graphics cards in x8 mode. Not as great as x16 mode, but very little difference in the real world.
If you want CrossFire (as I do), the least expensive (after rebate) mobo with a decent reputation appears to be the Foxconn 975X7AA-8EKRS2H. Many features with good performance from a manufacturer not previously known for enthusist type boards, so the latest "tweaks" from the maker may not come quite as quickly. The best CrossFire gamer's option right now seems to be the ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP, but you'll pay a premium for it (if you can find one). All the mobo manufacturers are working on new products, so there'll be better choices in the near future.

If the budget can't be bent to include better graphics and a mobo with later dual-slot GPU capability, you might seriously consider downgrading from the E6600 processor to a E6400 or E6300. Giving up the extra cache for enough money to upgrade the graphics and mobo is a trade well worth doing, as game performance is much more often limited by the GPU rather than the CPU. And with overclocking, your cheaper processor might just end up outrunning the more expensive one.

Originally Posted by Leftenant Moley

one last Question. Will this run Medieval 2?

Well, your current machine will probably "run" Medieval 2, just maybe not quite like you'd want. So something like what's been proposed will definitely do it better.

EDIT: P.S. There's a review of the new ASUS ASUS P5W64 WS Professional motherboard over at Hexus (a very nice UK website) that's just gotten me drooling like an idiot - four PCIe graphics cards running simultaneously! And it overclocks like crazy! How about a nice 8-panel display setup, anyone? See here: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6635&page=1

**DukeofSerbia** · 09-16-2006, 17:35

More more news:
Graphics card: If you can find Radeon X1900XT with 256 MB GDDR3 for around 150 pounds buy it. Sapphire model of Radeon X1900XT with 256 MB GDDR3 has the lowest price from all ATI vendors/manufacturers. ATI cut off prices two days ago and now Radeon X1900GT is not any more worth for buying. Not to mention how much more powerful is X1900XT. X1900XT with 256 easily beat new GeForce 7950GT model, not to mention 7900GT.

If you want to read tests of the latest graphics cards go here:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2827&p=1 (Fall '06 NVIDIA GPU Refresh - Part I: GeForce 7900 GS)
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2833&p=1 (Fall '06 NVIDIA GPU Refresh - Part II: GeForce 7950 GT and SLI)

From test:

The single 7950 GT card from NVIDIA does not seem to offer a greater immediate return on your investment than its major competitors in the X1900 XT family. First, the X1900 XT 256MB is cheaper than the 7950 GT. Both flavors out perform the 7950 GT in multiple games. Where the 7950 GT does lead the X1900 XT 256MB in a couple cases, it never leads the 512MB version. Obviously, the usual exceptions apply and those shopping with only one particular game in mind may form different conclusions, but in our eyes, the X1900 XT series are still better deals than stock speed 7950 GT parts.

As I plan to buy new computer to the end of november, it will be definitely Sapphire Radeon X1900XT 256 MB GDDR3 as graphics card (if I don’t buy desktop replacement notebook).

256 or 512 MB video memory?
512 MB video memory is only important if you plan to play games in 1600x1200 resolutions or higher (like 1920x1440). As the most 19” LCD monitors have native resolution 1280x1024 so, there is no need to buy card with 512 MB. For higher resolutions you will need 20” or greater model of monitor which is the waste of money except if you are rich.

Motherboard: Also good model for Core 2 Duo in rank of ASUS P5B is Gigabyte GA-965-DS3. In rank of ASUS P5B Deluxe is Gigabyte GA-965-DQ6. The craziest thing about those models is that their owners in various forums have unofficial “war” in claiming which model is better: P5B vs. DS3 and P5B Deluxe vs. DQ6. In fact you can’t be wrong whatever model you buy. Just avoid MSI P965 models.

Hope it helped.

**Ice** · 09-16-2006, 18:37

DOS, excellent review man. I'm going to try to convince my parents to "Lend" me a few bucks to help finance a new desktop. I'll probably go for the x1900xt 256 mb after reading your helpful review.

**DukeofSerbia** · 09-17-2006, 18:31

Originally Posted by Ice

DOS, excellent review man. I'm going to try to convince my parents to "Lend" me a few bucks to help finance a new desktop. I'll probably go for the x1900xt 256 mb after reading your helpful review.

Thanks Ice (man). I found something for you in newegg (as you are from USA according to your location): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102051 Sapphire Radeon X1900XT 256 MB GDDR3 for ONLY $240! And from the same vendor, model with 512 MB GDDR3 has price in newegg for ONLY $298! Model with 256 MB (and why not with 512 MB if you had money and good PSU) is absolutely best buy model in market! This card is powerful “monster”. Most games you will play in 1280x1024 with full AA+HDR and AF. And also many games you will play in resolution 1600x1200. The new Catalyst 6.8 pretty much improved performances of new X1K Radeon series, especially models with 256 MB. For the $240 you can buy only nVidia GeForce 7900GS 256 MB and if you looked those tests you see that X1900XT 256 MB is average 50% faster than GeForce 7900GS in most games. Not to mention that any GeForce 7xxx can’t AA+HDR. Plus when AA is enabled ATI is even more better.

**DukeofSerbia** · 09-17-2006, 18:33

@Leftenat Moley

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 (1.86 GHz)
Motherboard: ASUS P5B or Gigabyte GA-965-DS3
Memory: Corsair 2 GB (2*1 GB kit) DDR2 XMS2-5400-C4 TwinX (667 MHz)
Hard disk: Samsung SpinPoint P SP 2504C SATA II (or Western Digital 2500KS Caviar SE16 SATA II)
DVD-writer: NEC ND-4570A
Combo drive: LG Combo Drive IDE GCC-4522 OEM
Graphics card: Sapphire or Connect3D Radeon X1900XT 256MB GDDR3
Monitor: BenQ FP93G X
Case: Antec SLK3000B Midi Tower
Power Supply: Seasonic S12 500W Silent SLi ATX 2.0
Sound card: integrated Intel HD Audio
Speakers: ?
Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
Mouse: Included with keyboard (Microsoft IntelliMouse)
OS: Windows XP Pro with SP2

This configuration price is ~ £1100 (roughly with VAT included).

**DukeofSerbia** · 09-17-2006, 18:36

Originally Posted by Geezer57

Like the Duke said, you can get better image quality if you opt for a Radeon x1900 series GPU. I disagree with him on the x1900GT (especially it's being faster than the 7900GT - in most game tests in that Tech Report review I linked in my last post, just the opposite was true).

With new Catalyst 6.8 X1900GT is faster or has similar performances as 7900GT. I posted links to Anandtech. And those tests are fresh. Not to mention that GeForce 7 series can’t HDR+AA.

Originally Posted by Geezer57

I'm waiting for the price to drop a little bit more to jump on an x1950GT, but if I couldn't find that extra money, I'd choose a quality x1900XT with a non-reference cooling solution (like the HIS Hightech H190XTQ512DVN Radeon X1900XT) instead.

There is no card X1950GT. Only X1950XTX. Best buy now is Radeon X1900XT with 256 MB.

Originally Posted by Geezer57

If you want to stick with NVidia, you're better served picking a 7900GS (256Mb) at the lower price point, or a 7950GT (512Mb) if more funds are available. The 7900GS just about matches the 7900GT, for a good bit less money - the 7950GT definitely outperforms the 7900GT, for little or no extra cash.

Those cards are not worth for that money. Radeon X1900GT has price as GeForce 7900GS and is a far away faster.

Originally Posted by Geezer57

Switching subjects now - let's look at motherboards. Your MSI choice has one dominating factor - low price. Other than that, it doesn't offer much else. It's not a particularly good overclocker, and will never support any form of dual-slot GPU capability (SLI or CrossFire).

I agree 100% about MSI motherboards.

Originally Posted by Geezer57

If you want to stick with budget boards, but want a good overclocer, I'd strongly recommend the GIGABYTE GA-965P-S3. It's got a better layout than the MSI, and reports are that it screams happily at very high frequencies.

DS3 cost little more and is better.

Originally Posted by Geezer57

In my next board purchase, I'm insisting on the ability to support SLI or CrossFire, even if I don't start out with two graphics cards. That way, I can start out with one GPU when new, then upgrade later to a 2nd GPU (after prices have dropped) for a mid-life refresh.

SLi and CrossFire based systems are waste of money. Why?

1. You need powerful processor.
2. Need very good motherboard with support and they have high price.
3. It only worth for playing games above 1600x1200 resolutions.
4. For playing in those resolutions you need large (over 20”) and quality monitor which cost pretty.
5. SLi and CrossFire are marketing of nVidia and ATI.
6. Need more arguments?

Conclusion: waste of money.

Originally Posted by Geezer57

In my next board purchase, I'm insisting on the ability to support SLI or CrossFire, even if I don't start out with two graphics cards. That way, I can start out with one GPU when new, then upgrade later to a 2nd GPU (after prices have dropped) for a mid-life refresh.

Ah, typical marketing of nVidia (ATI lesser use that in promotion) – next year I will sell my old graphics card and buy the new DX10 which will wipe out your SLi or CrossFire based system and your solution will cost you more than mine.
Arguments:
1. SLi/CrossFire motherboards cost more than non SLi/CrossFire models.
2. You need high quality power supply (SLi/CrossFire certified).
3. You need very good case for cooling because of high heat.
4. Plus 5 previous arguments…

Conclusion: it’s not worth except if you can find two GeForce 7900GS cards for $200 and put in SLi. This combination is faster than single Radeon X1950XTX or GeForce 7900GTX and cost less than those two cards but GeForce 7xxx can’t HDR+AA.

**Geezer57** · 09-19-2006, 03:25