Scots

[Azog 150]

Does anyone have any info on the scots? Such as units, what the skins will be like and if they will be playable in campaign? If they all wear kilts ill scream.

[TB666]

Yes they will be playable.
Other then that we don't know that much about them, we have seen some screens of them.
And you can be sure that they will probably wear kilts.

[econ21]

And you can be sure that they will probably wear kilts.

TB66, I think you just want to hear Azog scream.

[Guillaume le Batard]

Azog,

One of the 3D units at totalwar.com is a Scottish unit, the "Scots Guard" I believe they're called (a.k.a. les "Compagnie des Gendarmes Ecossois”).

Without seeing all the units, however, no-one can say whether any units will be seen wearing kilts. Despite the reported historical inaccuracy of such dress in a medieval setting, I wouldn't be shocked to see them on a highlander unit or two .

Here's hoping they leave the kilts at home!

Guillaume

[Guillaume le Batard]

Oh wait, Azog, I'm very tired and completely wrong. The unit described above is a French unit comprised of Scots.

Sorry for the double post, I still haven't earned the right to edit my posts.

Guillaume

[Azog 150]

Bum, well it was to be expected i suppose. My media 9 thing needs to be installed again, so no unit profiles for me

Oh well, im off to bed, night all

[TB666]

TB66, I think you just want to hear Azog scream.

No, just prepared him for the worst.

[anders]

The scots will certainly have access to feudal knights, as the feudal knight in the .coms unit prewiev is scottish.

Moreover it can be expected that they will have some sort of pikemen to represent the "long wooden pole" wielding infantry of the battle of bannockburn.

Its also very probable that they wil be set up with some kind of two-handed sword wielding infantry to depict claymores. that may not be too historicaly correct, as the claymore as far as I understand was a 1500-1700 weapon.

Apart from this it will probably be general catholic units, spearmen, archers etc.

[Guillaume le Batard]

I suspect that the Scots will have access to some sort of slightly upgraded unit at the game's start to help offset what will assumably be a challenging situation economically and militarily.

IIRC, in MTW1 (as rebels) they had "highlanders" in the early era, which actually made a bit of difference for them in battles against other early infantry types.

Just guessing they'll make an early re-appearance. What do you guys think?

Guillaume

P.S. I am not typically your "Total War Small Faction Fanatic" -- my handling of economics is way too poor, and I always grind it into the dust -- but I am strangely looking forward to playing as Scotland!

[anders]

agreed, the scots need some sort of equalizer if they are to hang tough with those imperialistic english bastards. the highlanders with "excellent attack" and fast movement would be good for that. however i think some sort of pike will be just as important in the equalizing role, as they will offset any english cavalry superiority. they are also, historically, the unit that secured scottish independence at the time.

I love playing small nations, nothing like making denmark an economical and military superpower through trading and small, elite housecarl armies.

speaking of denmark and england, i recently read that the english/welsh longbow originally stemmed from scandinavia. armored, axe-carrying viking longbowmen anyone?

[IrishArmenian]

I thot Kilt is a branch of some sort of Tunic-like clothing came over to Britain with the Romano-British. The Scots developed their own type, made of wool. Of course, the tartan is much more recent, dating I think to the early 17th century. So they could wear a wool tunic of some sort.

[Guillaume le Batard]

...however i think some sort of pike will be just as important in the equalizing role, as they will offset any english cavalry superiority. they are also, historically, the unit that secured scottish independence at the time.

Agreed on the equalizing role of pikes for the Scots (or anyone else for that matter!). I'm guessing that pikes won't be trainable until late in the game though, just as in MTW1.

speaking of denmark and england, i recently read that the english/welsh longbow originally stemmed from scandinavia. armored, axe-carrying viking longbowmen anyone?

A terrible sight, indeed!

Your post got me curious, so I did a little looking into the origins of what came to be known as the English Longbow. It seems (although I am *no* historian) long bows have been used in the British Isles for a very long time --they have found remains of neolithic long bows: http://webapp1.somerset.gov.uk/her/d....asp?prn=23805 in England. Of course that doesn't mean that there wasn't a Nordic tradition of their use, as well. They were reportedly used throughout history in Japan, Africa, and North America, as well.

Guillaume

[Randarkmaan]

Long bows were normal bows almost everywhere, the English just used it better, and had a special kind of arrow (bodkin).

[Furious Mental]

Supposedly, as far as Viking archery went, Norway is where it was at. Apparently Norwegians used longbows of composite construction (iron and wood). Most of the Vikings active in England were of course Danes but there were significant numbers of Norwegians too. Whether or not they catalysed the widespread use of the longbow amongst English I don't know. As far as I know it was after contact with the Welsh that the English took to archery.

[Gealai]

The Viking longbow didn't use a iron-wood composite construction, it just made use out of natural difference between the core and the mantlewood of the yew employing each were it's strenghts are
, as all european bowmakers since thousends of years...

However iron might have been use sometimes, IIRC to strenghen the sinew-wood connection. A clear sign of a Viking's bow were also the strongly backcurved tips.

[Spino]

Agreed on the equalizing role of pikes for the Scots (or anyone else for that matter!). I'm guessing that pikes won't be trainable until late in the game though, just as in MTW1.

A terrible sight, indeed!

Your post got me curious, so I did a little looking into the origins of what came to be known as the English Longbow. It seems (although I am *no* historian) long bows have been used in the British Isles for a very long time --they have found remains of neolithic long bows: http://webapp1.somerset.gov.uk/her/d....asp?prn=23805 in England. Of course that doesn't mean that there wasn't a Nordic tradition of their use, as well. They were reportedly used throughout history in Japan, Africa, and North America, as well.

Guillaume

As far as the Scots are concerned pikes should not come too late in the game. The Scots were using the schiltron formation in the late 13th century, more than 200 years before the period represented in MTW2 ends (mid 1500s). Flemish militia also used pikes versus the French at the battle of Courtrai (aka the Battle of Golden Spurs) which took place in 1302.

[hoetje]

As far as the Scots are concerned pikes should not come too late in the game. The Scots were using the schiltron formation in the late 13th century, more than 200 years before the period represented in MTW2 ends (mid 1500s). Flemish militia also used pikes versus the French at the battle of Courtrai (aka the Battle of Golden Spurs) which took place in 1302.

VLAANDEREN DEN LEEUW!!!!!

a.k.a Flanders,the lion !!!!! :P
(=the flemish'warcry)

[Spino]

VLAANDEREN DEN LEEUW!!!!!

Uh... gesundheit?


LMAO! Just kidding...

[hoetje]

Uh... gesundheit?


LMAO! Just kidding...

DON'T confuse the Flemish with the Germans! Looks like all Americans have trouble with it,so here,to point it out again :

FLANDERS IS NOT DEUTSCHLAND

(not that I have anything against germans)

[Maizel]

Aye It's The Netherlands, Isn't it? ;)

[hoetje]

Aye It's The Netherlands, Isn't it? ;)

hehe don't mock me :( :P
Flanders=belgium

[Maizel]

K pest je maar wat =P


All good, all good

[hoetje]

K pest je maar wat =P


All good, all good

Doesn't matter,at least I have the admins on whose shoulders I can cry ^^ =P

[Spino]

DON'T confuse the Flemish with the Germans! Looks like all Americans have trouble with it,so here,to point it out again :

FLANDERS IS NOT DEUTSCHLAND

(not that I have anything against germans)

C'mon now... I KNOW Flanders is not Germany. I KNOW gesundheit is German for bless you! Had I simply written 'bless you' or maybe even 'yassou' (a word heard and used frequently throughout my life) I think the intended effect to illicit a laugh might have been lost. I also happen to LIKE the word gesundheit!

Now that this thread is threatening to careen off the tracks and smash into oncoming traffic I wonder how strongly your average Scot would object to being confused with a person of the Flemish persuasion?!?

[caravel]

I hear that "Highland Caber Throwers" (fabulously kilted and be-sporraned of course) are on the menu this time round, with a special 'eat haggis' ability that enables them to throw a super large caber once per battle. Very useful when dealing with those cannon elephants...

[anders]

someone made the point that the difference was all in the english/welsh use of massed "shower" fire from longbows, and that the longbow as such wasnt unique to the british isles: good point.

regarding my previous claim of the longbows scandinavian roots, you should google longbow, scandinavian and vikings, its interesting reading.

[Sun of Chersonesos]

apparently the scots guard will be the best archers in the game

[Azog 150]

They are a french unit

[AussieGiant]

apparently the scots guard will be the best archers in the game

Where did you hear that?

[Peasant Phill]

Look at the unit description on the .com. The Scots guard is French, although, naturally Scotland should have access to.