New faction Preview - The Byzantine Empire

**Little Legioner** · 09-16-2006, 12:47

Yes Murtaroi archers were exist in Byzantine army but however Varangian guards is not like Nordic or Slavic fashion except battle axe. They look like more typical not extraordinary.

Byzantine Empire gonna be good challange for my Turkish armies. Romanus Diogenes shall go his home without an army but the Sultans escorts

**AliAS** · 09-16-2006, 15:19

Video looks good. but i want longer videos preview.

**edyzmedieval** · 09-16-2006, 17:10

Originally Posted by cutepuppy

the guard archers are also historically correct - to a certain extent. They were called mourtatoi and were elite archers around 1300.

Thank you for the information. I was totally unaware.

(sarcastic)

Call them Mourtatoi for Gods sake not Guard Archers.

**econ21** · 09-16-2006, 18:36

Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

I was totally unaware.

(sarcastic)

No need to get snappy. I for one was totally unaware.

thanks, cutepuppy

**The Spartan (Returns)** · 09-16-2006, 18:43

is it just me or is the enviroment much more realistic and prettier?

**hoetje** · 09-16-2006, 18:49

Originally Posted by The Spartan

is it just me or is the enviroment much more realistic and prettier?

It's not just you,it's true

**Specialist290** · 09-16-2006, 23:44

Incidentally, has anyone pondered the potential for a double meaning in the subtitle of the article, "No More Playing Second Fiddle To Rome"?

**Underdog687** · 09-17-2006, 08:54

they look quite fun to play, i never played MTW. might try them 2nd after the english.

**The Wizard** · 09-17-2006, 13:19

Regarding these faction previews... remember the runup to MTW's release, and the awesome story/fanfic piece they had on IGN back then?

I think the link's still somewhere on the .com (or was before the restyling), but it would be nice to see a revival of that.

**Lord Comnenus** · 09-23-2006, 08:57

you know what the kataphractoi's lances suck! i mean hell they aaare short and the apearance looks like a heavily armed urban militia on horses!

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 09-25-2006, 17:38

What? Those lances are about 12 feet long!

What concerns me here is the total lack of arbalasts. Are you seriously telling me they didn't have any.

Although I suppose it matters less with the new Merc system, as I'll be well into Western Europe by then.

**Kraxis** · 09-25-2006, 21:01

Originally Posted by Nathanael

Well, at least the Byzantine Infantry don't have the Roman-esque shields they did in the last game - they basically look like a bunch of low-grade men-at-arms.

Actually MTW Byzantine Infantry looked very much like these guys, yes they even had the same triangular shields. They didn't lug rectangular scuta around.

But I wonder where the semi-famed Scutatoi are, however at at least there is some spearmen better than the lowest rung.

**Randarkmaan** · 09-25-2006, 21:22

What concerns me here is the total lack of arbalasts. Are you seriously telling me they didn't have any.

I don't think the Byzantines would have arbalests, anyway crossbows never really popular were with the Byzantines before the late middle-ages.

**Tamur** · 09-25-2006, 22:07

Originally Posted by Specialist290

Incidentally, has anyone pondered the potential for a double meaning in the subtitle of the article, "No More Playing Second Fiddle To Rome"?

<obscure joke warning>
Ermm... that toward the end of the game we'll get an early King George III, and he will play the fiddle while the French burn London down?
</warning>

**The Wizard** · 09-25-2006, 22:23

What concerns me here is the total lack of arbalasts. Are you seriously telling me they didn't have any.

That would be realistic, considering the fact that, in the East, the composite, recurved bow was the mainstay of the archery.

A pity we aren't seeing the mounted core that formed the tagmata (singular tagmaton; Byzantine field army), the pillar of the Byzantine military. No frontiersmen either? Surprising, knowing CA's tendency towards Romanticesque units.

Would have liked a sort of special mercenary recruitment system for the Byzantines, but this'll do. It won't really make a difference between unreliable mercenary and regular Byzantine soldier on the battlefield, but... meh.

**econ21** · 09-26-2006, 00:17

Originally Posted by The Wizard

A pity we aren't seeing the mounted core that formed the tagmata (singular tagmaton; Byzantine field army), the pillar of the Byzantine military.

What's the mounted core you think we are missing? I'm just curious because there seems to be a bucket load of types on page 3 of the preview - more than MTW, IIRC. Do none of them fit the bill?

The main omission to me would seem to be armoured spearmen - the scutatoi that Kraxis commented about.

**Lord Comnenus** · 09-26-2006, 10:15

the lances suck because they look western, the mtw kat was better because there lances were like spears

**acesman** · 10-02-2006, 08:00

Just a historical footnote, in the Byzantine Empire, cataphracted cavalry (not infantry) was the main arm of the army; not in numbers, but in that the decision rested with the cavalry, not the infantry. This was analogous to the knights and men at arms relationship in Western Europe. When the Cataphracts were defeated (as at Manzikert) the rest of the army was easily swept away.

**Polemists** · 10-02-2006, 08:47

I'm not historical buff, but I have a friend who is. Anyway my understanding of crossbows is originally no one liked them. The pope even made them illegal at some point. Most considered it a shameful weapon, so I'm pretty sure no one is starting with arbalest, though i could be wrong. I'm sure eventually many factions will have crossbow units tho.

**andrewt** · 10-03-2006, 04:22

Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

Thank you for the information. I was totally unaware.

(sarcastic)

Call them Mourtatoi for Gods sake not Guard Archers.

I agree. CA is very inconsistent about calling units either their real names or inventing some Westernized name for them. I'd rather they call them by their real names. This 50/50 thing is kinda weird.

**SCRIBE** · 10-07-2006, 07:00

Hmm, to your eyes...
Does the Byzantine military units look fare to you than it was in MTW?

They look excellent, but still, it needs some work.
Like aren't the Kataphracts supposed to have a chain mailed helmet covering the eyes?
And wasn't there some heavy cavalry armed with maces that were used by the Eastern Romans?

**BaldwinIV** · 10-07-2006, 10:23

Originally Posted by SCRIBE

They look excellent, but still, it needs some work.
Like aren't the Kataphracts supposed to have a chain mailed helmet covering the eyes?
And wasn't there some heavy cavalry armed with maces that were used by the Eastern Romans?

Yes, great disappointment for me...
The Kataphraktoi in MTW looked far better...

**Peasant Phill** · 10-09-2006, 08:43

their appearance changes when their armour is upgraded. So it isn't impossible that the upgraded Katapractoi will have the chain mail eye protectors.

**BaldwinIV** · 10-09-2006, 14:59

Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

their appearance changes when their armour is upgraded. So it isn't impossible that the upgraded Katapractoi will have the chain mail eye protectors.

Very good news for me!
Thanks

**Basilios II Voulgaroktonos** · 10-16-2006, 20:54

First of all sorry for my english!!!Well lads i am greek and(and an expert in greek history)first of all the byzantine infantry is not correct cause the byzantine troops of the dynasty <<KOMNHNOI>>were pure greek or from other parts of the empire only!!!they were not mercenaries as described here.it is true that the emperor was giving the troops a small part of land near the border to motivate them more to fight the enemies of the empire.Second the byzantines lost in matzikert because the STUPID emperor Romanos Diogenis made one terrible mistake.he disbanded the byzantine troops(who were in that time the most effective force of the mediterranian,very well trained and disiplined mainly by emperor Basilios II Bulgarslayer)and hired mercenaries to defend the empire.and as everybody knows they fight only for gold,not to defend until their death adn fight braively.and he went to counter the Turks with this army.thats why we lost in matzikert.and 3rd the katafraktoi if not disbanded they were enforced of mercenaries thats why they lost also by the turks.and i am not sure if the guard archers realy existed!4th i saw pikemen.and last the byzantine foot soldiers did not have triangular shields,they had shield like the ancient roman leagions because the model of the byzantine army was the roman legion!Thx for listening

**econ21** · 10-16-2006, 22:07

Originally Posted by Basilios II Voulgaroktonos

last the byzantine foot soldiers did not have triangular shields,they had shield like the ancient roman leagions because the model of the byzantine army was the roman legion!Thx for listening

There's a Bulgarian mural at Zemen, dating to 1354-60, which shows Byzantine infantry with a triangular shield. Quite a number show the cavalry with similar. Even the ancient Roman legions changed their shields over time - they tended to be oval, not the rectangular ones we know from Augustus, by the fall of the Western Empire.

**Basilios II Voulgaroktonos** · 10-16-2006, 22:19

i dont know about the mural but i know tha they were not properly triangoled like the western europes shields and the katafraktoi MAYBE hade a triangular shield because it serves good the cavalry but i am sure that they model of the byzantine army was that of the ancient roman.and thats why eventually the byzantine armament was a bit out of age in 1300 and later!!!at least i think you agree with the other parts

**Basilios II Voulgaroktonos** · 10-17-2006, 15:48

Originally Posted by The Wizard

A pity we aren't seeing the mounted core that formed the tagmata (singular tagmaton; Byzantine field army).

hey where did you learn greek.This is a very interesting language but its not greek

the sigular is Tagma and the plural is Tagmata.Tagmaton maybe is in an other language...

**Basilios II Voulgaroktonos** · 10-17-2006, 16:33

If constantinople was a city and not a castle there were not any balance betwen the Byzantines and the Turks but anyone is free to change it from a castle to city.The Varangian Guard really existed.They were sent by the Russ in the late 10th century to help the byzantines.They were the personalguard of the emperor and the palace in Constantinople.The byzantines did not have crossbows or gunpowder except of some cannons so its correct that CA did not put any...For the armour if i am not mistaken you can upgrade it so that you can reach the plate and also in western europe in early age they dont have units with plate armour.After the 14th century yes the byzantine army was consisted exqlusively of mercs but before and in the reign of Alexios I Komnhnos,Ioannhs II Komnhnos and Emanuhl I Komnhnos the army was cosisted of byzantine troops.And end i am not sure if the Mourtatoi ever existed!

**Prince Cobra** · 10-19-2006, 21:24

The preview was really interesting. However I am not very sure whether they had to emphasize on how much Byzantium was a shadow of Roman Empire. After all the idea of superiority was extremely strong ( theoretically alive until thed death of the Empire in 1453) and was very important during the reign of Emp. Manuel I Comnenus ( 1143 -1180). I think they should not have emphisized on the weakness of the Empire so much. It should be discovered by the player himself. The player should have the feeling of superiority which should be both good but very dangerous. Just small insignificant detail. Otherwise I liked the Preview. And yes the removing of the gunpowder units is really historically accurate.