Bush to Address Diplomatic Row Over Borat

[Lemur]

Too funny ...

Kazakhstan president Nursultan Nazarbayev is to fly to the US to meet President Bush in the coming weeks and on the agenda will be his country's image.

President Nazarbayev has confirmed his government will buy "educational" TV spots and print advertisements about the "real Kazakhstan" in a bid to save the country's reputation before the film is released in the US in November.

President Nazarbayev will visit the White House and the Bush family compound in Maine when he flies in for talks that will include the fictional character Borat.

But a spokesman for the Kazakhstan Embassy says it is unlikely that President Nazarbayev will find the film funny.

Roman Vassilenko said: "The Government has expressed its displeasure about Borat's representation of our country.

"Our opinion of the character has not changed.

"We understand that the film exposes the hypocrisy that exists both here in the USA and in the UK and understand that Mr Cohen has a right to freedom of speech.

"Nursultan Nazarbayev has taken Mr Bush up on an invitation to visit this country to help build our relationship with the USA.

[doc_bean]

In the video, Borat said, "In response to Mr. Ashykbayev's comments, I'd like to state I have no connection with Mr. Cohen and fully support my Government's decision to sue this Jew.

Borat ftw !!!

[Bar Kochba]

LOL love borat

[Scurvy]

- i cant wait for the film

[GoreBag]

Borat ftw !!!

Damn, I was going to use that line..guess I should have read the article.

The Kazakh president is going to look like a fool.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Damn, I was going to use that line..guess I should have read the article.

The Kazakh president is going to look like a fool.

No, he isn't. Every country is proud of its international image and takes offence when someone parodies them - especially when they have limited means of redress.

I know Kazakhstan well, and have good friends there. They don't really get upset about this third rate comedian's misplaced racism - but they do expect their president to make a strong objection on their behalf - just as anyone would.

The really stupid thing is, Borat doesn't look anything like a Kazakh, who are Mongoloid in appearance (ethnically) or Russian.

His humour is on a par with feeble racial jokes everywhere.

[Scurvy]

His humour is on a par with feeble racial jokes everywhere.

his humour is above par with racial jokes everywhere

i have sympathy with khazakstan though....

[Kanamori]

They are not jokes aimed at maliciously making fun of race or nationality. They are just parodies of 'popular' generalizations, not of the actual nationality, and I haven't seen anything that relates to race.

[Dâriûsh]

"Every Englishman must have a hobby. Some like to collect the stamp, some like to make the jam, but the most fun is to a kill a little animal with a shotgun or rip them up with wild dog."


Borat rocks!

[Lemur]

I don't think the target of Borat's humor is Kazakhstan, or any of the 'stans. The butt of the joke is westerners, typically the people he interviews. Since Borat is so childlike, and says so many horrible things that others might just think, he gets people to say things they would never speak in polite company.

Borat is a walking bag of id without a conscience. The joke is how people respond to him.

[drone]

Borat rocks, but I hope you got a warning point for posting that picture, Lemur!

[GoreBag]

No, he isn't. Every country is proud of its international image and takes offence when someone parodies them - especially when they have limited means of redress.

I know Kazakhstan well, and have good friends there. They don't really get upset about this third rate comedian's misplaced racism - but they do expect their president to make a strong objection on their behalf - just as anyone would.

The really stupid thing is, Borat doesn't look anything like a Kazakh, who are Mongoloid in appearance (ethnically) or Russian.

His humour is on a par with feeble racial jokes everywhere.

Hence looking like a fool, and I daresay you do now as well. Taking Borat seriously is foolishness.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Agreed, the point is that the UK and US people think he's just an ignorant Eastern European.

My favourite moment was on D' Ali G Show, Ali G asked a politician, he might have been Asian, or Arab, he wasn't typical "English"

"Does you think one day we wil 'ave the technology to make everyone black?"

The man's response, "Well thats interesting, because you're Black, aren't you."

Cohen nearly cracked up.

What he does is very clever and funny, the characters are just clowns though, which is why he gets away with it.

I don't think its really racist.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Hence looking like a fool, and I daresay you do now as well. Taking Borat seriously is foolishness.

It's not really a question of taking him seriously, just putting the other side. Everyone's so desperate to be cool with Borat, they don't seem to understand the characterisation causes offence.

That's no reason to ban or censor him in any way, but it's certainly valid for the president of the country which feels the offense to make representations.

If making that apparently unpopular point makes me look foolish, then fine. Wouldn't be the first time.

[Kanamori]

My point was that the characterization he makes is obviously fictional, and it is a parody which does not get its humor at the expense of anyone, minus the people interviewed. (I remember someone saying that anylising humor takes away the comedy; this would seem to fit that.) If, for some reason, someone is offended by this extremely flamboyant caricature, it is not somehow the fault of the character's creator. People look for personal offense, and even if truly insulted, the person ultimately lets it irritate them.

[doc_bean]

My favourite moment was on D' Ali G Show, Ali G asked a politician, he might have been Asian, or Arab, he wasn't typical "English"

"Does you think one day we wil 'ave the technology to make everyone black?"

The man's response, "Well thats interesting, because you're Black, aren't you."

Cohen nearly cracked up.

That is either the most stupid or the most brillant response ever

[GoreBag]

It's not really a question of taking him seriously, just putting the other side. Everyone's so desperate to be cool with Borat, they don't seem to understand the characterisation causes offence.

That's no reason to ban or censor him in any way, but it's certainly valid for the president of the country which feels the offense to make representations.

If making that apparently unpopular point makes me look foolish, then fine. Wouldn't be the first time.

The only way it could cause offense to anyone is if the caricature struck a little too closely to home. If it was (and since it is) nonsense, you'd think it'd be dismissed as mere humour by anyone with a sound mind, unless Kazakhstan truly is too backward a country to grasp humour...as their politician would have it seem...

Hardly much different from any depiction of Scots as as sheep-screwing, whisky-chugging barbarians who go about their day punching their best friends in the teeth, or the French as beret-wearing ninnies who smoke cigarettes out of those silly, long tubes.

It's not simply a matter of being derided, in your case, for simply being a minority, as you perceive it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

The only way it could cause offense to anyone is if the caricature struck a little too closely to home. If it was (and since it is) nonsense, you'd think it'd be dismissed as mere humour by anyone with a sound mind, unless Kazakhstan truly is too backward a country to grasp humour...as their politician would have it seem...

Hardly much different from any depiction of Scots as as sheep-screwing, whisky-chugging barbarians who go about their day punching their best friends in the teeth, or the French as beret-wearing ninnies who smoke cigarettes out of those silly, long tubes.

It's not simply a matter of being derided, in your case, for simply being a minority, as you perceive it.

I understand your point, but such humour also gets tiresome - and influences those who won't take the time to see beyond stereotypes. You're an intelligent chap and can see that it is just humour but there are plenty of people who wouldn't be able to point to Kazakhstan on a map who will accept Mr Cohen's caricacture as representative of a people they may then dismiss as backward.

I therefore still think it is valid for the president of the country to try and redress the misconceptions.

As an Irishman, I have lived with stereotypical racial humour all my life - some of it is hilarious and funny, but there are plenty of ill-educated people that still think we are all thick and ginger. However good-humoured one is, it gets old fast - just as many Scots would finally tire of the characterisation you note, and the French.

It's not very much of a step from racial stereotypes as humour to allegedly serious politicians dismissing an entire nation as 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys.'

That's why it is not foolish but fair for a leader of a country to try and redress the way his country may be viewed. President Nazarbayev is a bit of a totalitarian, so his representations are likely to lack subtlety, but he's not a fool for making them.

[macsen rufus]

The man's response, "Well thats interesting, because you're Black, aren't you."

Cohen nearly cracked up.

well in some circles being Jewish does qualify you as black -- specifically the Black Lawyers' Association (can't remember it's exact title, as I don't qualify on either ground...), and Rastas regard Jews as "blood".... sorry, totally irrelevant to Borat.....

[IrishArmenian]

I think he is just supposed to be a man from a former USSR country. That is what it is all about. I think he is very funny, espeshially being from a former USSR country. His joke target is not the Kazaks, but the target is the people's stereotypes of Kazaks. No one realizes this.
Yes, there are many stereotypes of such people as Scots, Irish, Russians Germans, Spaniards, Italians (All citizens of what is now Italy), Chinese, Japanese and every other nashionality in the world. (Eksept for the lesser-known nashionalities).

[Divinus Arma]

I like Borat. It's a nice.

edit: He also does a terrific job exposing anti-semitism.

[lancelot]

I know Kazakhstan well, and have good friends there. They don't really get upset about this third rate comedian's misplaced racism - but they do expect their president to make a strong objection on their behalf - just as anyone would.

The really stupid thing is, Borat doesn't look anything like a Kazakh, who are Mongoloid in appearance (ethnically) or Russian.

His humour is on a par with feeble racial jokes everywhere.

Why is it that when people have something said that they dont agree with, a good majority play the race card...now that is getting tiresome...

Even if Borat was a serious commentary on what the creator considers the cultural/social/political/whatever failings of Khazaks what on earth has that got to do with race????

Insulting someone (even if that is what he is really doing) by mocking their place of origin is not racism...he is not standing there saying 'I hate xyz'...that is racism.

Consider what racism really is before arbitrarily dishing out unfounded condemnation as a racist on a person who is part of a minority group in the UK anyways.

[Dâriûsh]

"My 13-year-old son is travelling here by foot, with his two wives and his three childrens.” “If he survives the journey I have promised him that he can make penetration with Colombian prostitute Shakira."

[Papewaio]

That's why it is not foolish but fair for a leader of a country to try and redress the way his country may be viewed. President Nazarbayev is a bit of a totalitarian, so his representations are likely to lack subtlety, but he's not a fool for making them.

I would call John Howard (the PM of Australia) a flamming idiot if he did the same with regards to Dame Edna. A lack of sense of humour just shows how much of a tinpot dictator Nazarbayev is. Caricatures and political satire is part of freedom of the press and hence is a vital part of democracy. He is showing his true anti-democratic colours. Nazarbayev has done more then anyone to make Kazakhstan look like a backwater country.

President Nazarbayev
"He is married to Sara Alpysovna Nazarbayeva, with whom he has had three daughters named Dariga, Dinara and Aliya. Dariga is married to Rakhat Aliyev (the son of the former minister of healthcare of Kazakhstan), who currently serves as the first deputy minister of foreign affairs of Kazakhstan. Dinara is married to Timur Kulibayev (the son of the former minister of construction of Kazakhstan), who now holds the position of the first deputy chairman of the national holding company Samruk which manages the most important state-owned companies (and formerly, the first vice-president of the national oil company KazMunaiGas)."

That and he has been the only President of Kazakhstan since it left the USSR and it has been called less then democratic. So no I won't take lessons in freedom of speech from a corrupt bureaucrat who is busy moving millons if not billions to safe haven bank accounts. Nazarbayev has all the credibililty of Ferdinand Marcos.

[GoreBag]

I understand your point, but such humour also gets tiresome - and influences those who won't take the time to see beyond stereotypes. You're an intelligent chap and can see that it is just humour but there are plenty of people who wouldn't be able to point to Kazakhstan on a map who will accept Mr Cohen's caricacture as representative of a people they may then dismiss as backward.

I therefore still think it is valid for the president of the country to try and redress the misconceptions.

As an Irishman, I have lived with stereotypical racial humour all my life - some of it is hilarious and funny, but there are plenty of ill-educated people that still think we are all thick and ginger. However good-humoured one is, it gets old fast - just as many Scots would finally tire of the characterisation you note, and the French.

It's not very much of a step from racial stereotypes as humour to allegedly serious politicians dismissing an entire nation as 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys.'

That's why it is not foolish but fair for a leader of a country to try and redress the way his country may be viewed. President Nazarbayev is a bit of a totalitarian, so his representations are likely to lack subtlety, but he's not a fool for making them.

Well, thank you for the compliment (or observation, as you see it), and you're right - there are ignorant people around. If they accept the caricature as truth, let them. Even though I imagine a considerable number of people go home after dealing with Borat and wiki Kazakhstan, giving them the benefit of the doubt, some people don't. Some people choose to be ignorant, and some are simply stupid. This cannot be changed. Like many other people have already have said, Borat doesn't poke fun at Kazakhs, he pokes fun at people who are too stupid to know the difference. It's not much wonder that we never see an episode of Da Ali G Show when Borat has a deep, intellectual conversation with, say, an ethnologist who would know instantly that Cohen isn't a man of Turkic ancestry, or a linguist who would know that Cohen's little 'Kazakh' blurbs ("Yek-shimesh!") are actually Polish, as I've heard. Obviously, there's no humour in not being smarter than the jackass on TV.

I'm mentioned it before in another thread, but Canada had its own segment of a TV show nearly congruent to Borat's. It was on This Hour Has 22 Minutes, and it featured a political satirist (Rick Mercer) who would tour cities in the US and speak with all sorts of US citizens about 'Canadian' issues, such as the recent foundation of the country's first volunteer fire station, a petition to ban the ancient practice of placing Canada's elders on ice floes in Hudson Bay and leaving them to die, or how or last our last Prime Minister won a 'double-double' in the last election, saying that a 'double-double' was a term in Canadian politics for having support from the major opposition party and a majority vote or some such, when really, a 'double-double' is code for 'double cream, double sugar' at Tim Horton's, the Canadian national doughnut and coffee shop chain. Canadians loved the show, even though we were cruel to our elderly, culturally backward, and in one segment, even 80% of us were 'retarded'. It spawned one-hour specials. Anyway, ending the parabol, our politicans never had to address these 'issues' with any Yank diplomats or politicans because, I imagine, on the whole, we're not turds.

As well, as I'm sure you're aware, Cohen also impersonates an Austrian homosexual named Brüno, who goes around interviewing celebrities to mock them for living their pretentious and sometimes needlessly effeminate or macho lifestyles (the interview with the wrestling team, or with the English skinhead bands at Evilfest come to mind). I've never heard of an issue with Cohen's misrepresentation of the Austrian gay community, even though his interviews have yielded such incredible statements such as suggesting that Ricky Martin should have (assumedly, were he a Jew during the Holocaust) been sent 'on the train to Auschwitz' rather than being 'kept in the ghetto'.

Anyway, the bottom line is that Ali G and his counterparts aren't racist in and of themselves; really, they do challenge perceptions and force introspection for people who are clever enough to pick up that they're acting like morons. People will choose to be offended if they don't have the mind to find the humour and realize what it truly is. If Cohen's humour was composed of simple racist jokes, I doubt that he would have seen as much success as he has. Nazarbayev is either himself a tool, or he's acting on pressure from (tools in...) his country (even though I doubt that, since he's apparently an autocrat). I don't think there's much else to say about; it really doesn't matter to me whether he's a fascist or a hippie...he's a (massif!) dong.