Historical Ptolemaioi Army

[Lovejoy]

Hello there!

I've always enjoyed playing as Ptolemaioi, but I've never really known so much about them. Using the units available in the game, what would be the most historical correct army possible?

And if you would bother, I would really love to here about anything you may know about Ptolemaioi. Just cause it's intresting.


Thanks in advance, Lovejoy.

[VandalCarthage]

It really varied at times; certain forces were clearly dominated by Makedonians, perhaps some Greek mercenaries, at other times Machimoi archers, or even cavalry and infantry. In frontier armies, the opposite was almost certainly true. A grandson of the last native Egyptian Pharaoh, Nectanebo, was the supreme commander of some part of the Ptolemaic Western frontier, and his forces seem to have been comprised largely of light Egyptian levies, Makedonians drawn from garissons, and whatever other bizarre mercenaries had been settled around. Depending on the region, the size of the army, and the intent of the campaign, it could be a simple phalanx+cavalry mix, or a core phalanx with a huge variety of supporting auxiliaries; Ethiopians, Egyptians, Cretans, Libyans, etc. So, most of the stuff they have access to, could be comfortably associated with a Makedonian army.

If you're really interested in Ptolemaic history, and willing to invest some money, I really really really recommend Gunter Holbl's fantastic book.

[paullus]

You'll be able to make a pretty historical ptolemaic army in .8. They previewed klerouchoi phalangitai a few months ago, and they made up a huge section of the phalanx. Some old school hoplite mercs would also be a good addition, and I think they've said we're getting those too.

Its hard to really make a "standard" ptolemaic army, because they drew from so many imported ethnic groups scattered about the countryside for their soldiery. That said, you get a good idea of a ptolemaic "campaign" army in polybios' description of Raphia: a very large phalanx, of Makedonian, Cyrenaians, klerouchoi, and machimoi; kretans, the basilikon agemata, the "peltastai" (who may or may not bear much in common with those from EB), large numbers of heavy and light cavalry, african elephants, and a large contingent of Thracian and Gallic soldiers.

[Tanit]

Like any diadochi army the Ptolmaioi are hard to standardize because they used lots of mercenaries, levied troops from all over the place and enjoyed experimenting with new tactics such as chariots and elephants. I hope there is a little more variety in .8 but I understand the limitations that were put on EB by CA, so it is knid of an element of imagination too. Jewish pikemen are simply pantapadoiai phalangitai hired in Jerusalem or Sidon for example.

[VandalCarthage]

Jewish pikemen are simply pantapadoiai phalangitai hired in Jerusalem or Sidon for example.

Huh?

[Censor]

He means that you can "role-play" by having Pantodapoi Phalangitai recruited in Sidon or Hieroslyma be "Jewish."

[Dayve]

...And use them as cannon fodder.

That'll be fun!

[Simmons]

...And use them as cannon fodder.

That'll be fun!

Pantodapoi maybe but not my Pantodapoi Phalangitai they eat whole Legions for breakfast

[Krusader]

Like any diadochi army the Ptolmaioi are hard to standardize because they used lots of mercenaries, levied troops from all over the place and enjoyed experimenting with new tactics such as chariots and elephants. I hope there is a little more variety in .8 but I understand the limitations that were put on EB by CA, so it is knid of an element of imagination too. Jewish pikemen are simply pantapadoiai phalangitai hired in Jerusalem or Sidon for example.

Kleruchoi Phalangitai are mainly Greeks, Macedonians, Galatians & Jews, given kleruchoi status and organized into phalangitai units.
And there is also the Iudaioi Taxeis as well.

[paullus]

speakin of which, i've been working on a raphia battle with the current eb build, based on polybios' account. the main thing that's been problematic thus far (aside from not having argyraspidai or diverse asian units) is how to represent the Ptolemaic phalanx: polybios says that all the mixed units (most of the standard klerouch units) were divided up by ethnicity for the campaign, and the new ethnic units were given new armor and trained to do what their ethnic group was thought to be good for. any comments on how best to represent that?

alternately, do you think that's bs on polybios' part? i would cross check that claim with papyri, but i'm having a danged hard time getting through to the search engine of the Duke Pap Database.

[Lovejoy]

I thank for all the replays! I'm gonna take your advise and conquer the world, in a slightly more realistic way this time around :)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

speakin of which, i've been working on a raphia battle with the current eb build, based on polybios' account. the main thing that's been problematic thus far (aside from not having argyraspidai or diverse asian units) is how to represent the Ptolemaic phalanx: polybios says that all the mixed units (most of the standard klerouch units) were divided up by ethnicity for the campaign, and the new ethnic units were given new armor and trained to do what their ethnic group was thought to be good for. any comments on how best to represent that?

alternately, do you think that's bs on polybios' part? i would cross check that claim with papyri, but i'm having a danged hard time getting through to the search engine of the Duke Pap Database.

Polybius is generally rigerous and accurate, though not infallable.

[VandalCarthage]

Kleruchoi Phalangitai are mainly Greeks, Macedonians, Galatians & Jews, given kleruchoi status and organized into phalangitai units.
And there is also the Iudaioi Taxeis as well.

Actually, the Taxeis was meant mainly to represent Jews in Seleucid service; the Ptolemies will have more specific Jewish units.

[Os Caçador]

My question is did the Ptolemaioi army, generals, etc. were they in the egyptian fashion, or the Macidonian fashion as they were a succesor kingdom of Alexander's.

[Equilibrium]

Clearly in a macedonian manner, you had the phalangites as anvil, cavalry as hammer and auxiliaries to support these two main groups.